I’ve read this thread and felt the same thing HoneyPot and Stig mentioned, but I wasn’t sure exactly what it was about your plan that bothered me. Now I think I know. First let me say I understand your need to lay down a boundary and rattle the cage. I think many people would be much farther along in their marriages if they did so. But I think it important to understand the purpose in this. The objective is not to just get a change in your spouse’s behavior, it is to get a change in the way s/he perceives and respects you. Without this shift in perception, the new behavior will not last. Why I say this is the following.
I think rattling the cage needs to be done in a very open, up front way. Your spouse needs to know why you are setting up this choice, that you intend to confront issues head on from now on, and will not tolerate exceptions to the boundary. This gives the boundary credibility. It imposes a certain “fear” and respect in your spouse. It becomes a deterrent.
What I feel you are doing is to lay a deadline so far into the future that she will not give it the respect it deserves. Because there is so much time, it is way too easy for her to procrastinate. Nothing will happen in her eyes between now and August, so she might come to the conclusion that this is a game. She will only find out otherwise when it is too late.
You seem to convey a sense of satisfaction thinking you are going to drop the bomb on her over dinner. I find this disturbing because it smells like vengeance, and a little like an ambush. It also smacks me as cowardly. Rather than face her directly right now, if feels to me like you are hiding behind this “fair warning.” But with this warning, you are not confronting her, just telling her she has something to fear in the future. You are putting off the confrontation that you need to make today. This is passive aggressive behavior.
Say for the sake of argument that she backs down and concedes to your demands in August, avoiding the need for any confrontation on your part. Do you think this will set up an effective deterrent for the future? Will she gain the respect you really want? The alpha male maintains control by preventing confrontations, but maintaining assertiveness at all times, not by throwing out ultimatums after control has been lost.
At this point you have already set the deadline. So leave it in place, but start making a stand on other things. Train her to realize your seriousness through other, smaller issues.
Cobra, it cannot possibly be an ambush if both parties are aware of the date. The date was from a discussion we had where we were talking about how long we were willing to try to get to some minimally acceptable level of happiness. August will mark the 2 year point of trying to put the marriage back together. As to a certain satisfaction, perhaps I am guilty of that thought process. After 2 years of half-measures maybe it'll wake her up. Maybe it'll wake her up to the fact that she wants to end the marriage or that she wants to save it. Either way it is progress.
That being said, I couldn't hold my cheerful disposition after being ignored twice in a row and we had it out last night. The August date is now out in the open more than it was. I'm tired of her telling me she would rather I talk to her than email her, but when push comes to shove she wants to avoid talking about anything important to me as well.
In her mind things have been better. Things were better after her surgery. Take sex out of the equation and we get along fine. As long as there was no possibility of sex, we got along pretty well. Again, what I want is very simple. To be lovers not roommates. Actually roommates is too strongly negative a word. She wants to be companions. I want to be lovers. Companionship may satisfy me when I'm 80.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
I'm tired of her telling me she would rather I talk to her than email her, but when push comes to shove she wants to avoid talking about anything important to me as well.
Get the focus off of poor you and look at what bond god will have with the both of you as you become closer to him and his will. Trust in him totally GIVE IT ALL TO GOD AND LET GO OF YOUR PAIN.
Bow
"A man of knowledge uses words with restraint, and a man of understanding is even-tempered. Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue." Proverbs 17:27-28
The objective is not to just get a change in your spouse’s behavior, it is to get a change in the way s/he perceives and respects you. Without this shift in perception, the new behavior will not last. That was great Cobra. Very true. Balto, I also think you are going to shoot yourself in the foot with your current approach. Why a deadline at all? My impression is that you think it gives you some sense of power/control over the situation where, let's face it, you really don't have any. She will change if and when she wants to. Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with your deadlines. Is it really going to make you feel better to have this deadline in place or is it just going to stress the both of you out more? When my H first left, I kept coming up with these "deadlines" to have him back in the house. 2 months? 4 months? Everytime we discussed it, he dug his heels in deeper. I finally stopped the whole mentality of a deadline and GAL. Took the focus off of "the relationship" and worked on ME. He decided to do the same and he came back to the M when HE wanted to. I had NO control over his ultimate decision. But pushing for things to be better by a certain date was the last thing that would have worked. Just some feedback from someone who has had some experience with the dreaded deadline approach.
I know it is not really an ambush and she is aware of the date and your demands, but putting something out so far in the future detracts from the importance you want her to feel about this issue. Remember, if she could easily comply with your needs, I believe she would (and I think it is a requirement that you think this way too). The level of resistance tells you just how damaged she is concerning her femininity. Keep that in mind in constructing your strategy. She is avoiding you and the sex issue. So it is no wonder to me that she would also ignore a deadline in the future.
That being said, I couldn't hold my cheerful disposition after being ignored twice in a row and we had it out last night.
I actually think this is a good thing, in your sitch. It keeps the date ground in the now, rather than the future. She confronts you directly, rather than fearing confrontation in the future. She becomes accountable now. I think you need to keep up the pressure to see how she is baby stepping toward the goal. Take the position of doing all you can to help her meet the deadline without doing it for her. Sort of like helping your kid on a major science. Mentor them but don’t actually do the work. There are not many kids around who can take successfully complete their first major science project by just handing them the requirements and leaving them alone to figure it all out for themselves. Maybe they will squeak something out at the last minute, but the end result will be much less than their capabilities and what they learn will be far less than if someone mentored them all along.
What is it about being ignored twice that sets you off? Do you think you should never be ignored? Do you take that as an attack on your self esteem, or in other words, do you require a certain level of respect and admiration to feel good about yourself? There is some thing in this statement that bothers me and it smells a lot like ego.
I'm tired of her telling me she would rather I talk to her than email her, but when push comes to shove she wants to avoid talking about anything important to me as well.
You read so many threads here about people who cannot get their spouses to talk and work out problems. But it sounds like you are like the one others complain about in their sitch. You are the one not talking, preferring to email. What’s up with this? If she prefers to talk, then talk!! There is no better way to communicate. What I think is going on is that when she talks, she will not agree to your position, right? So you say she does not want to talk about anything important. But important to whom? You are judging her, what she should think is important and how she should think about it. Do you see this? Is this not ego?? Is this not an attempt to control her???
Like Corri has said so many times, the lack of sex is NOT the issue. Your lack of respect for other people’s opinions, your need to be right, to be in control seems to be the underlying problem here. Why are you like this? Where does this come from? How can you change it?
FWIW - my S also says that he prefers to talk rather than write but....when he knows I want to talk he avoids, avoids, avoids. When I email it gets ignored about 60% of the time. The other 40% I get responses ranging from good/thoughful to short and useless. I guess over time I have become conditioned to believe that I have just as good a chance for a reasonable discussion by email as I do with an attempt at a verbal conversation.
LFL, the reason for the deadline is very simple. I've spent two years trying to work this out. I don't want to be on this BBS 10 years from now (not that you all aren't great people). If I cannot have the bare minimum relationship that I feel is acceptable, then I should move on. A separation will either shake her from her lethargy or will force us both to see that life goes on even in the event the R does not. Both of these outcomes are preferable to a continuation of this unacceptable situation.
The difference between my deadline and the sitch you described with your H is your deadline was dependent upon someone else to agree to it. Mine only requires unilateral action. It is not dependent on what Judy wants to do. Is that cold? Perhaps. The chill is contagious and I caught it from Judy.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
