2much, please don't think this crirical of me but the underlying message as I see it in your post today only reaches those of us who have realized our shortcommings. They appear to enslave us to a life of searching for the elusive Holy Grail of friendship or partnership. If the ones we love or meet never realize what we on this forum have learned, how can there be any chance of closeness with someone. We are doomed to be doormats and will be chasing a dream that can never come true.
Sorry just feeling a little hopeless today.
No offence.
ABM
I'm not sure I'm living better, but I am living different.
My Sitch
Hi 2much. How are you doing? I read through most of your last thread, however, I didn't really see the reasons for the downfall of your m. Did H tell you why he felt the need to have an EA or behaviors in you that he doesn't like, etc.? Also, have you read "Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man?" It's pretty good and offers some insight to what goes on in their heads sometimes. Seems like he's not being very upfront about how he feels. (Unless he has been before.)
The one word that comes to my mind b/c it seems similar to my H is "REBEL." People fear losing their independence in R's, and need to have some balance. Seems like your h wants to do everything you don't want him to do. I know it's no fun!!! However, the best way to deal with that is to give him the room to feel like he can do what he wants without feeling controlled.
I can see what you want from him as far as spending time with you and giving you PT, but it just looks like the more you ask/assert yourself, the more he backs away. Is this correct? It just looks like he doesn't have much to give at this point, and as your recent article states-if they don't have enough IN, they can't give anything OUT. So, perhaps trying to connect more with him on HIS level will help him to feel safer with you and enable him to eventually give to you.
No, H really never told me what went wrong in our M. It was all that he was always in love with this OW and that after she got married to someone else, he thought he would too. Of course this was him talking when he was in his "alien" state. So dont know how much of it was really true or if he was just saying it to make him having the affair ok.
I honestly am not sure about how he feels. He is not much of a communicator of feelings and never has been. But in his actions, he is showing me that he is trying and does really care and love me. Just last nite and the past couple nights in bed, he has either rubbed my leg or my hand w/out me asking. So, he is doing things for me that he knows I like, because I have asked him or told him I like them. Just finally, it seems as if he is getting more comfortable with showing me affection and he's feeling safer in our R to start doing things for me.
I think you are right about him being afraid of losing his independence.I think thats one of the reasons he is afraid of having kids. I dont think its about him doing things I dont want him to, its about him not losing who he is and who he wants to be. I have "loosened the strings" as to say, lots in the past year. I think that has helped tremendously. But for some reason, there are still times when H feels he has to show me that I dont run his life. Crazy....I know..
I think things are slowly getting better, H is starting to do some of the things I need him to do for me. There will come a time when I think I will be able to ask him for things that I still need, but right now, I think he is doing all that he can. Im still being patient!!
Hey, 2Much, I just posted on your old thread. Just wanted to let you know that I think you're incredible! Don't be discouraged by this one thing, however insensitive it was.
Re. the lack of communication: do you mean only in words? Maybe that isn't his love language. I'm learning a lot about how to communicate with H in the way that makes sense to him, not to me. Allow your patience to keep paying off! Let him have his rope.
Quote: Go back through your posts and be amazed and heartened by how far you've come.
I know I should do that...but Im afraid to. I dont want to "feel" that way again, just by reading what has happened. Am I a chicken? Maybe..its just so hard to read how much pain I had to go through. Now, the person who SHOULD read it is my H!! Hee hee...especially now...since his head isnt located in his a** anymore!! Then he could really see just how much pain I was in!
Communication....yea, H does not communicate well with words. Thats why I have to read his actions all the time. Even though he is starting to communicate a lot more to me, its still not about his feelings or about us. So, I look to his actions and in his actions, I see how much he loves me. Just last night, I was watching some friends kids and I called H and asked what he was doing. He was cleaning the house!! Scrubbing bathrooms, putting dishes away and doing laundry!! WOW!! That shows me he loves me!! So, when I got home, told him the bathrooms looked wonderful and thanked him so much for all his help! Then, we ML!! IT was wonderful!! Funny thing too...I got home pretty late from watching kids and H was waiting up for me!! So nice..and way past when he wouuld usually go to sleep!!
Today he is off to Denver to play in a poker tournament, then afterwards, he is going up to football game with his friends. Sometimes its still really hard to "let him go" do his stuff. I dont think its so much that I am afraid of what he will do as it is about being jealous. I like to go out and have some drinks once in a while and I never get to do it. I love to go out and go dancing and I never get to do it. So, its kind of a bummer for me to sit home when I know hes out having good time. Hopefully some day these "single friends" of his will either get married or get girlfriends, so that I can be invited along!!
Do you know Aesop's fable about the goose and the golden eggs?
Let me share it with you and explain how it relates to your marriage.
The fable is about a poor farmer who discovers that his goose is laying golden eggs.
At first the farmer thinks it must be a trick. But when he gets the eggs appraised, he learns that they're pure gold!
The farmer can't believe it. And he gets even more excited when he realizes that the goose is laying golden eggs EVERYDAY. Eventually, the farmer becomes fabulously wealthy.
But the farmer tires of caring for the goose and waiting day after day for the golden eggs. So he decides to kill the goose and get all the golden eggs at once. But when he opens the goose, there are no golden eggs. And now the goose is gone too.
How does this relate to your marriage?
A good relationship lays many golden eggs: security, companionship, fun, intimacy, just to name a few. In the words of Jerry McGuire, "You complete me." And that's exactly how we feel when we're in a successful marriage...COMPLETE.
But the golden eggs of a marriage are THE RESULT OF tending to the relationship (the goose).
Over time, most people grow tired of caring for their marriage. Most people become selfish and impatient. So they stop extending common courtesies, being sensitive, and thoughtful. They stop giving their marriage time and energy. And they treat the person closest to them in a way they would never treat even a stranger on the street.
The amazing thing is that most people's inappropriate behavior in their marriage is, in their mind, an effort to grab some golden eggs. In other words, people aren't trying to sabotage their marriage. They're trying to get what they want. They're trying to get the golden eggs. But their behavior is killing the goose!
In the beginning of your marriage, your relationship is strong and indestructible. But if you want the goose to keep laying the golden eggs, you've got to learn how to take care of it.
It's easy to fall in love. But maintaining a marriage that lays golden eggs year after year is something very few people know how to do.
But the fact is, it's not hard. You can do it! You simply have to know how.
Remember the first time you tried to use a computer? Overwhelmed right? "How does this work?" But once someone showed you; from then on it was easy.
Renewing your marriage and maintaining love in your relationship is kind of like learning to use a computer. It's seems impossible; until someone shows you how to do it.
Love is NOT a mystery. Just as there are physical laws of the universe (such as gravity), there are also laws for relationships. Just as the right diet and exercise program makes you physically stronger, certain habits in your relationship WILL make your marriage stronger. It's a direct cause and effect. If you know and apply the laws, the results are predictable--you can "make" love.
I know that some of you dont think these things apply to you because your spouse is not willing to work on your M. But I just want to say, that even when H was having EA and telling me that we were done, I was still "loving" him and showing him how I would love him if he was to come back to me. I treated him with respect, showed him companionship (even while he was talking to OW), showed him love and thoughtfulness to the best of my ability without crowding or pushing. And I honestly think that is what helped...he saw that he was never going to get from OW the things that I was here, in his home, showing him he could have.
I know what you mean about being afraid to feel that way again. I have strong emotional reactions to memories, and it is really hard to read over my journal--especially when I see parts where I wanted to believe what he was telling me and I now know that it was all lies. It helps to focus on the bigger picture. And a glass of wine doesn't hurt either!
So it sounds like his LL may be acts of service. What can you do for him that he would recognize as an ILY?
October 10, 2005 Overcoming Obstacles Nothing Is Insurmountable When our next best course of action seems unclear, any dilemmas we face can appear insurmountable. Yet there is nothing we cannot overcome with time, persistence, focused thought, help, and faith. Whatever the situation or problem, there is always a solution. And if you remember to look within, even as you search around you for the "right" course of action, you will be able to center yourself, clear your mind, and see that nothing has to be impossible.
The first step in overcoming any obstacle is to believe that it can be overcome. Doing so will give you the strength and courage to move through any crisis. The second step is to make a resolution that you can prevail over any chaos. Enlist your support network of family and friends if necessary. The more minds there are to consider a problem, the more solutions can be found. Don't discount ideas just because they seem impractical or "unrealistic," and don't keep searching for the "best" alternative. Often there is no "best" choice, there is only a choice to make so we can begin moving beyond whatever is obstructing our path. At the very least, making a choice, even if isn't the ideal one, can give you a sense of peace before you have to figure out what your next course of action will be.
If you feel overwhelmed by the scope of your troubles, you may want to think of other people who have turned adversity into triumph. We often gain a fresh perspective when we remember others who have overcome larger obstacles. It can be inspiring to hear of their victories, helping us remember that there is always light at the end of every tunnel. It is during our darkest hours that we sometimes need to remind ourselves that we don't have to feel helpless. You have within and around you the resources to find a solution to any problem. And remember that if a solution or choice you make doesn't work, you are always free to try another. Believe that you can get through anything, and you will always prevail.
How is this for AOS....H went out Sat night, so I knew he would be hung over when he got home. So, I set up the couch so he could lay down with a blanket, pillow and some water. Then I put the laptop on the coffee table by the couch and pulled up his football site. I think thats some pretty good AOS..and he appreciated it a lot. Later he asked me to run him a bath, so I did. I joked around with him that he was "no fun" when he was hungover, cause all he did was lay on the couch and sleep all day. I did sit by him later and we ate grapes together and he teased me. It was fun to laugh and enjoy each other. Then we went to bed to watch TV and many times, he rubbed my hand or my leg.
I know it's no fun!!! However, the best way to deal with that is to give him the room to feel like he can do what he wants without feeling controlled. 
Hopefully some day these "single friends" of his will either get married or get girlfriends, so that I can be invited along!! 
