Hey KAW. I'm sorry, bud. It's a good letter...and I certainly wish for the best. If I might interject my humble opinion regarding one thing...
You said "I truely think she believes I will always be there for her and that whenever she wants I will accept her back." Given this, are you sure you want to say: "If at some point you wish to come back, then I guess we will need to talk." I also think it's not entirely necessary, as you also said: "I can no longer say with any certainty if you decided to change your mind and come back, I would be willing."
You'll have to forgive me, as I'm a bit out of practice on being on the BB... I'm proud of you, you know. You have held up so very well over the last few years and have stayed the path. You continue to be an inspiration to me, KAW. I feel deeply saddened that your W cannot seem to get herself out of this slump.
I'm glad you're doing something for you, KAW. I hope you find peace in this my dear friend.
KAW - I agree with Jethro, I would edit the letter some.
You're trying to say "I'm done. I'm moving on, this is unacceptable to me, I did everything I could to try to save our marriage, I give up now." But then you water it down with all these maybes about the future.
it's okay to say something to let her know the door may still be open a crack, but only very subtly - when you put in as much as you did, it starts to sound like you aren't serious and are only trying to get a reaction out of her.
Remember when everyone advised me to proceed only if I was really and truly ready to make a decision for myself without strings?
So I guess like Andy, I'm just concerned about this letter, and only for that reason.
One thing I found interesting in your letter:
Quote: You have asked many times over, “Why do you love me?”
KAW, being a female who has struggled with self esteem issues a bit, I see this question from a different vantage point than the question you answered.
In the course of my being female I see this question more along the lines of a self musing and not one that you could answer that would be assurance to her. I know you're wondering what the heck I mean, but this question is sort of a trigger for me... because from what you've described to us here (and me in e-mail), I see this question as a struggle with herself.
"How could you love me when I don't love me?"
And I'm afraid that only CAW holds the key to that puzzle.
You know of my fondness for the written word. I'm still going to recommend sitting on it for a little while to really see if you feel the same way in a few days or even after Thanksgiving.
FWIW, my two cents. And a hug coming your way for putting so much thought and effort in constructing such a well written letter.
Bets
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
droping the rope? it's about time! Some would say your letter to CAW isn't a good idea but I'm going to have to agree with those who think you should write it AND leave it for her. (oh somehow I think just leaving it on the counter for her to "find" is extra fitting even if a bit catful)
I know in my own sit (which I'll admit still is far from perfect and needs some tweeking) things didn't start turning in my direction til I could say to h with the most sinserity that the door was still open but wouldn't be for long.
One thing I did notice about your letter was that it seems as if you are trying to say she's already crossed the point of no return and yet you are also saying she still may have a possibility of a future with you. You'll have to be clear on this as it leaves the appearence of wishy washy ness.
I've followed your sitch and know you have tried to give it your all. Soemtimes I think letting go of the rope requires you to say your piece and let the chips fall where they may. Her reaction belongs to her--not to you, but so long as you write with unselfish love and not spite in your heart, I think you can go forward in peace.
I was hoping to get back here before the holiday to wish you all well and hopes that you all can find some joyous celebration at the start of this holiday season ... but I'm still finding it difficult to spend much time here. I do want to express my gratitude for all you folks have responded with. I "listened" carefully to each of your responses ... and ...
Stealing from LnL's thread:
Quote: I am re-posting the full text of something that JJ wrote about the LRT -
the "Last Resort Technique" can be one of the most misunderstood, most misused, most feared, and most underutilized of all of Michele's tools.
The LRT, as I see it, isn't so much a defined set of actions, patterns, or a "plan". To me, it's more of a lifestyle, an attitude, and a state of mind.
To me, it's the infamous "Dobson letter", the one that is written and re-written at least 10 times, truly taken to heart within yourself, then torn up and never sent. If you have the right state of mind, your partner will KNOW you have set both them, and yourself, free by your words, actions, and attitudes, without ever giving them the letter.... -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... dang that JJ never ceases to amaze me with his infinite wisdom ... and its true after about three revisions, I no longer had a sense of need to give her the letter ... and I never did.
After having a great time with D11 over the weekend, I dropped her off at CAW's Sunday night. I also brought with me a past due notice for D11's trumpet rental which CAW has the payment coupons to. I simply and calmly asked if she had the coupons and if so, would she hand them over to me so I can take care of them from now on so it would come to impacting D11 later on. When she came back with the coupons, I added, I would appreciate it if something like this happens again, that she would notify me before I receive a late notice ... at which time she said ... "We need to talk." So we step outside (in the cold) .
She started off with, "Is this how its gonna be now? ..." Emotions were high on both sides, so it got a bit messy with each other getting a bit defensive about the other's emotions. In the midst of the discussion the steered it to money and it started to get a little ugly, but both of us soon realized where it was heading and didn't want to go there and reigned it back in again.
For those have followed my story from the beginning will remember how I've come to regret when the bomb went off about the PA, that in my desperation of the moment ( and before I even heard of DBing) said that I still didn't want to lose her and if that meant sharing her so be it. (Oi, now you know why I have taken to Dobson's book). In the past two years, I've come to regret ever expressing that sentiment and Sunday night it came to bear she remembered it well to. She couldn't understand why I could take such a stance then after knowing about the PA, and now that it nothing more than a friendship I would "go off" the way I did, just by him sitting there in the kitchen. Without going into detail here, I explained it to her that seeing him in person what made her entire R with him all too real for me and that just flood me with all the emotions I should have had at first ... and then making sure I was making eye contact and with conviction, I state how wrong I was the first time. It made her shiver ... well it could have been the cold but it was the only time she did. The point however is it got thru to her. We went back and forth about whether we can still be friends and then she came out with ... "OK, I won't see him anymore, ever." Long pause. She started crying. As a peace offering, I offered a hug. She said, "No, I can't." I said fine and I guess I should go then and departed, but I did feel exonerate from having those desperate words remaining over my head.
When I got home, I felt like not much was resolved, but the door was open for us to talk some more. With me starting back on the day shift on Monday, I ended up missing D11's PTC, so I called CAW to see if it was OK to get together after work so she can bring me up to speed on D11 and if she wished we can talk some more. She took me up on it, so came over as I was having dinner and talked about D11's performance in school which was her best marking period yet!
After dinner we sat down and she started by saying she wanted to make it perfectly clear why she declined my hug. She said she didn't think she could have handle having to let go once she started holding on. I had asked why at this point would she be willing to stop all contact with OM. She said, “I don't want to lose you." ... altho as we calmly talked further she's not at a point of considering coming back. While talking, she had a panic attack ... the first she says she has had in weeks. I did my usual routine that seems to work in settling her down the quickest, but as a side effect it does run a high risk of leading to ... ... and it did. Afterwards, she stated like it was just dawning on her that we will never be "just friends". Later in the evening I took her home.
At quarter to one in the morning on Tuesday, I was caught totally by surprise by a phone call from CAW. She was having another panic attack and she pleaded for me to come over. Fortunately (at least for this night) she lives only a couple miles down the road, so I was there in less than 5 minutes. It was a bad one and took over an hour for her to settle down. The major episodes are like having several aftershocks after a big earthquake, but once she settled down again, then we again ... and I ended up staying the night.
Since she was planning to bring D11 over at 9 in the morning, I figured I'd hang around until it was time to take D11 with me, but at quarter to eight, CAW said to me, you have better go before s-D24 gets home from work. I no doubt had a quizzical look and she added, "It will just make things easier." So I left, only to have her bring D11 over an hour later.
When I brought D11 back in that night, CAW was already in bed and naked. She asked if I was in a hurry to leave and I said no. So I sat on the bed and she asked if I would read something. She had three drafts of a blessing for TG she had wrote and wanted to know which one I thought was best. I read them as she handed them to me. The third and last one had the best part of the first two combined together and relayed that to her and recommended she go with that one. Then we chatted for a while. Then it was getting close to when she needs to take her insulin and then she usual goes to sleep after that. I suggest I ought to be going and she gives me a look to let me know she wants me to stay (as in over). I asked about s-D24 who was still there too. She lifted the covers to the bed to invite me in, but this time she did request no more tonight. I replied, I'm just happy you wish me to be here with you and we slept in each other's arms for the WHOLE night. Since this post is darn close already to exceeding an "R" rating, I might as well add that in the morning she let me know she had changed her mind about .
Being TG morning I had to get home to slip into some better attire before picking CAW and D11 up at noon to go to MIL's. I was my understanding that s-D24 was working to 2 and would come over by herself later. When I got to the apartment, s-D24 was already there and CAW's mood had sunken deep. It appears that in my absence, CAW & s-D24 had a big blow out. We stuck with the original game plan but CAW was distant and down all day, but I still had a good time at MIL's. I was a little anxious about her sibling being uncomfortable with me being there, but that quickly subsided as they welcomed me and on the side even showed genuine support for me to hang in there. s-D24 ended up leaving early in a huff. On the way home, we ended up holding hands, but when we arrived at the apartment, d-S24 was there and CAW was even reluctant to give me a kiss goodbye. So I started to walk out and CAW followed me out to try to explain she just didn't want to deal with s-D24 anymore that day and she gave me a kiss. I said if you ever need to talk about it... She said she doesn't want to start crying. I offered to call her the next day altho I'd be working all day. She nodded she would like that.
I did call yesterday, but she was very chatty. I felt like she was holding back ... maybe because s-D24 was within earshot. So I ended the call pretty quick.
So there we are ... back in limbo mode again with one hurdle replace the other. She still has a lot more to deal with. At this point tho, I'm more than willing to take a step back and let her contact me when she's ready. Until then I have a vacation to plan. I ended up with a bit of time left for the year and put in to be off for the second half of December. So have to plan some much needed KAW time...
I'm glad that you didn't send the letter, no matter how well written, and how heart-felt it may have been. It's a gamble on which direction they can go on how they're perceived, and can limit your options when it comes to adjusting your "game plan", so to speak. I'm glad that instead of sending it, you took it to heart within yourself, and she noticed the change.
Now, you're kind of on a "slippery slope" here. There seems to be some changes in motion, so you have some challenges ahead of you on where you want these changes to lead.
I know I often "preach" about looking to the past to see "what worked", and I think that still holds true. However, sometimes you have to take a really close look at whether some of these things were REALLY working, or whether they were just familiar and comfortable patterns for the both of you.
With the "Dobson letter spirit" within you now, some of these answers may hopefully become a little easier for you to see. It may help you combine a little of what really worked in the past, with some of what's working for you now, to help to lead things in a better direction.
Was this post a bit vaque and confusing?! I'm sure it probably was, 'cuz it's something I'm still working on a lot myself!
In short, sometimes the best changes that we make aren't always the most comfortable ones. But I'm sure that you know and remember that from past experiences! Be cautious and aware of any signs that you are falling back into any of the patterns of "what doesn't work" in your relationship, that will lead you back to where you were not long ago.
I'll leave you to digest this for awhile, whilst I dwell a bit upon this for my life, too!
P.S. Take note that I'm responding to you on your thread in "piecing", not the other one you have going!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Like JJ, I’m glad you didn’t send the letter. I didn’t want to influence you either way because I think you’ve been trying too hard to follow everyone’s advice, and as I implied before, I think it’s time for you to stop seeking/following advice and just be you again.
Having said that, I also have to agree with JJ that the purpose of a Dobson letter should be for YOU. If you write something to CAW, and send it, it then belongs to CAW. To do what she pleases with.
So if your goal in writing the letter was to influence her, then, as JJ said, you run the risk of having it backfire. If your goal isn’t to influence her, then what’s the point in sending it?
So now that you’ve got that out of your system, where do you go from here?
I kinda think I know where JJ is going with his mysterious comments about the best changes not necessarily being the most comfortable ones, but I won’t presume to speak for him.
What I will say, though, is that you’ve been out of your comfort zone so long that you don’t know what’s comfortable for you anymore. You’ve dropped the rope, and CAW has picked it up and handed it back to you. This seems to be a recurring theme for you. Perhaps dropping the rope and letting it lie would be the uncomfortable thing to do, but I can’t say that I’d personally recommend it.
All I can recommend is for you to be the best KAW you know how to be, and let CAW work her way through things for herself. In your place, I wouldn’t stop supporting her, but rather, I would support her in whatever way she wants to be supported. And if she yo-yo’s back and forth, you have to let her do it. (not a very “comfortable” proposition).
Maybe you just have to get comfortable with letting CAW figure things out for herself? Perhaps the reason you keep going in circles is that whenever things start going “your” way, CAW feels like you’re trying to change her so she balks.
I see this question more along the lines of a self musing and not one that you could answer that would be assurance to her. I know you're wondering what the heck I mean, but this question is sort of a trigger for me... because from what you've described to us here (and me in e-mail), I see this question as a struggle with herself.
Bets 
... and its true after about three revisions, I no longer had a sense of need to give her the letter ... and I never did.
and I said no. So I sat on the bed and she asked if I would read something. She had three drafts of a blessing for TG she had wrote and wanted to know which one I thought was best. I read them as she handed them to me. The third and last one had the best part of the first two combined together and relayed that to her and recommended she go with that one. Then we chatted for a while. Then it was getting close to when she needs to take her insulin and then she usual goes to sleep after that. I suggest I ought to be going and she gives me a look to let me know she wants me to stay (as in over). I asked about s-D24 who was still there too. She lifted the covers to the bed to invite me in, but this time she did request no more 
I'm sure it probably was, 'cuz it's something I'm still working on a lot myself!
