moving forward II -- it's a bright, sun-shiny day!

[Nevanna]

Okay, realized I have been doing this too much with H, so I need to vent about that skank xrm.

I had a dream the other morning, right before I got up. XRM was at some wedding where H and I were. She was following him around like some lost puppy the whole time, and being the respectful and nice person that I am, I kept my distance to let H handle things the way he wanted. After awhile, I got fed up of being away from my my H just to "keep the peace" because she was around. So I headed over to tell her to bug off. As I walked over, xrm leans over to kiss H--and he kisses her back. I go absolutely nuts, grab her by the hair and haul her backwards, screaming "Get off my husband you filthy whore!" And then proceed to just absolutely beat on her--pounding on her, kicking her, as she just lays in this lump on the ground. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking that this is not the way to handle it--there are tons of people watching...but it just seemed like I was watching myself doing all these. I remember trying to scream, and having the hardest time waking up. When I did, my heart was racing and I nearly fell out of bed.

The whole thing really freaked me out. Even though it was a dream, I was really disturbed by how badly I just lost it. Not like me at all. And then, I had that image of them kissing just permanantly fixed in my mind. It took me over a day for the "reality" of it to fade away and feel more like a dream.

(Although, in the dream, I pictured her fat and ugly. H thought that was funny, since I do know what she looks like.) I did break down, and ask him again if there was ever anything between them. (Yeah, I know...bad me...but I had just had the dream...) And he said no. I asked if he would have told me, and he said yes. (With the first sep, it took him all of one day to come clean about the PA. I think the guilt was too much.)

Anyway, he has put off meeting with her to return the last of her things the past couple of days. (Just odds and ends he found while unpacking.) Was doing stuff with me, and just didn't want to deal with her.

So last night we went to his storage unit to dig a couple of things out and to rearrange it so we can add some of my stuff. While we were there, xrm called. (Stupid skank.) He ignored it the first time, then finally went out to answer it the second time.

While he was talking to her, I ran across a folded up piece of paper. Dunno why I was curious, but I opened it up. Obviously not H's handwriting. Anyway, I started reading it, wondering what it was. At first I thought it was some kind of poem. Actually, I thought it sounded kind of neat. It was describing the peaceful feelings in a cemetary.

Okay, maybe I'm weird, but I like cemetaries. They are very connected places, full of history and people. I find them very relaxing. So I thought this was kind of neat to read.

A couple of paragraphs in, it got weird. Started taling about some kind of conversation in a cemetary and how that was the beginning of a love. (??) Then it stated: "A love now forbidden by another's love." (????) then it ended up saying something bizarre about being "born, living, and dieing" in a cemetary.

I showed it to H when he came back in--not accusatory or anything, just like "What in the world is this weird thing?" He read through it, and had a pretty confused look on his face. He thought it was as strange as I did--said it did look like her handwriting. He asked where I got it, and I told him. We decided maybe it was some bizarre attempt at a "love letter" meant for him to find. He mentioned that I should keep it, for evidence. (We've been looking or paying attention to any messages from her that were strange like that, just in case, since she's a real nut case.)

I did break down last night, and ask him to make her go away. I hadn't done that before. But I said I really needed her to be gone. He asked me if I wanted him to tell her to stop calling, and I said yes. (DUH!) He said that, when he finally did meet with her he was going to tell her to stop the calls. (He's also planning on telling her that I'm pregnant--even thought I'm not--to scare her away.)

I am just soooo sick of her! (And people like her!) H told me that she actually said to him, awhile back, that she "did everything right, and still didn't win"--meaning get him. Well, duh! He's married!! WTF is right with that?? Nothing! And on top of that, she still calls him--and still calls multiple times in a row if he doesn't answer. How annoying is that??

I guess xrm also got jealous that H hung out some with a FF of hers--a FF who has a live-in BF. Um, yeah. WTF right does xrm think she has to get jealous??? And, according to H, xrm was constantly cheating on her ex-bf...and then would get jealous when ex-bf would talk to other women. Um, yeah. Mixed up priorities!

What really ticks me off is that she just doesn't get it. She keeps calling and calling and calling and calling... For the most part, I've tried to stay out of it. (It's hard for me.) I've let him handle it how he wanted. But now, I've just had enough. I understood when she was acting all nuts (ie, when we think she may have been stalking him) why he would talk to her or put up with some of her nonsense. At that point, it probably really was dangerous to tell her to bug off.

But this is just stupid. I'm not going to keep holding my breath because of that whore any more. I start to feel almost normal....and then she calls. I mean, when is she going to get it?? He's a M-A-R-R-I-E-D person...that means he's not available.

Okay, feeling better now...calmer...

I'm pretty sure nobody actually bothered to read all of that blabbering nonsense. But, well, whatever, I certainly feel better.

[Lyrael]

Nevanna-
I read it all, and I want to pat you on the back for keeping your patience. I am realizing that the feelings about and tolerance of mentions, etc of OW goes in cycles for me. I am in the middle of a down cycle, where I wish that ex-OW would fall off the face of the earth, or at least move to some other town so I didn't have to hear my H mention that he saw her, or that someone told him she is buying a house for his ex-best friend (now her boyfriend). I have lost it a bit a couple of times, and knowing how hard it is not to, I want to give you a HUGE HUG for being so patient with your H.

I only have a few more months of stupidness to go through, because H and I will be moving to Arkansas, and then we won't run into ex-OW all the time. THANK GOODNESS!

Hang in there, Nev, you're not alone.
Myrrh

[Nevanna]

Myrrh,

Glad you stopped by. I was looking for your thread the other day, but I saw that it was locked.

And glad I'm not the only one who feels like they're going nuts. I think what really gets to me is that there was no PA, it probably started out as an EA (all the signs are there) and it sure as he!! looked like he moved in a gf after I left. Intellectually, I know it's more complex than that...and I know she's delusional... But I really just want this to be over and done with so I can just heal.

H and I are planning on moving, but it won't be for at least a year or so. Both of us can't wait to put all of this junk behind us. (And start having some babies! )

I hope your move goes well--sometimes there's nothing else like a fresh start.

And some good-old-fashioned venting to get through the day.

[Lyrael]

Nev-
You know, I honestly had no idea my thread was locked until you said that - I haven't posted in so long...so I did make a new thread here.

And sometimes the mere appearance or rumor of infidelity is what hurts. Besides the actual things that have happened with my H, there have been rumors -it goes along with his profession and the age group of his customers. But that doesn't stop me from hating it.

I can't wait until you guys have babies. You'll be such a great mommy!

More later,
Myrrh

[Nevanna]

And sometimes the mere appearance or rumor of infidelity is what hurts.

Very true... And it doesn't help that xrm is nuts, and went around telling people they were together. Strangely, this situation upsets me more than the actual PA.

Why? I don't know. Maybe because it was short-live? We were only seperated for three weeks (which is when the PA, really a ONS, happened). Maybe because he came (literally) running back to me? Maybe because xrm actually moved into the apartment with him? And because it certainly looked like they were dating? I'm not sure why this is harder for me to deal with.

I think maybe it's because this was a "second time around." I knew that stupid skank wanted to be more than friends. I guess I was able to dismiss the first episode as a very human mistake...thought he had learned his lesson. (Okay, that sounds harsher than I mean it.)

And...I'm around basically nothing that reminds me of the PA anymore. He doesn't work at that bar now. I'm not living on that side of town. We're not in either apartment where all of the drama happened. On the otherhand, xrm keeps calling. And calling. I got a little frustrated, and told H earlier that he was too nice to her.

Maybe part of what I'm doing is projecting all of that hurt and anger from the PA onto the current circumstances... When I found out that xrm said she was going to drop in to the club tonight, I got that nasty panicky feeling that made me feel like I needed to be there. I used to be soooo bad about that... Although H hated the woman he had the PA with, she came into the bar every single week on the same day. (Although, towards the end, it was just kind of pathetic and funny.) I had this awful habit of always looking nice and making sure I stopped in on those days. I used to get so worked up just thinking about her being there.

I had already told myself I needed to stay in for the next few weeks, until my new salary kicks in. I'm not going to get paid for awhile, and I can't really afford to spend the money. I had to make myself calm down, and realize that 1) even if I did go, it's so crowded, xrm might not even see me... and 2) I'm not going to get into that habit where I'm doing/not doing something just because of xrm. It's just not worth my energy...

H is having a hard time with the guilt. He told me earlier that, when we were seperated this time, he didn't know how he was going to "win me back." (Geeze...and I'm writing on this board wracking my brain trying to figure out how to make things right between us again...) He also said he hated himself for making me cry the way I did. (I think I came veeeery close to a nervous breakdown.)

Sorry for the rambling. It's late on a Saturday, I haven't been out all weekend (saving money till I get paid!), I'm starting to feel cooped up...and I've been fighting with the viruses on my computer all day. (Not fun.)

Anyway, hope your weekend is going well!

[Lyrael]

Very true... And it doesn't help that xrm is nuts, and went around telling people they were together. Strangely, this situation upsets me more than the actual PA.

For me, this would be because other people knew about, and might have gotten the impression that my husband cared about/was dating someone else - that hurts!

Why? I don't know. Maybe because it was short-lived?

I read something about how emotional betrayal is much harder for a woman to deal with, while it's the sexual betrayal that's tough for a man to deal with. The thing with xrm was more of an emotional closeness they had that made you feel betrayed, while the PA sounds more like just a piece of a** - I am not saying the PA is okay, or that you liked it, just that it is sometimes easier to recover from than emotional affairs. I think this is why I have been able to start forgiving my H for his infidelity - they were physical affairs, without so much emotional connection, and the parts that were emotional are the parts that have really hurt me.

I guess I was able to dismiss the first episode as a very human mistake...thought he had learned his lesson. (Okay, that sounds harsher than I mean it.)

Yes, the repeat is REALLY hard to deal with. My H described it not as him running to someone else, but trying to run away from the pain of our relationship and of his life at that time. There is no really good answer to this, just the comfort of knowing the ending is getting happier. You have been really patient with your H, and being patient with his lingering contact with xrm, will most probably strengthen your relationship in the end. She is the adversary, and not you.

And...I'm around basically nothing that reminds me of the PA anymore.

I can't wait to move and get to this point.

On the otherhand, xrm keeps calling. And calling. I got a little frustrated, and told H earlier that he was too nice to her.

I hear you there - xow and her bf pop their heads into our lives all the time - especially since her bf's business is right next to my H's. My anger flares the highest when I am going along peacefully and BOOM, there they are again.

Maybe part of what I'm doing is projecting all of that hurt and anger from the PA onto the current circumstances... When I found out that xrm said she was going to drop in to the club tonight, I got that nasty panicky feeling that made me feel like I needed to be there. I used to be soooo bad about that... Although H hated the woman he had the PA with, she came into the bar every single week on the same day. (Although, towards the end, it was just kind of pathetic and funny.) I had this awful habit of always looking nice and making sure I stopped in on those days. I used to get so worked up just thinking about her being there.

Wow, I know that panicky feeling SO WELL. A lot of different things can trigger it - any reminder of xow, songs on the radio, etc. Sometimes I have to be tough on myself and say "you can't stop this from happening again, so relax and realize nothing you do can affect this or change H's actions." Then I do something relaxing -I do a lot better at getting through these times now. You also know he loves you, and more importantly, you are amazing and so WORTHY of that love! He doesn't need psycho xrm, because he has Nevanna the Fabulous to come home to! She just looks more pathetic and desperate as time goes by, I think. I think it's really hard for you to be at home, and I for one understand the feeling. Hang in there, and I'll check back on you later!
Myrrh

[Nevanna]

because other people knew about, and might have gotten the impression that my husband cared about/was dating someone else

Strangely, I'm not sure that's it. The woman he slept with hung out at the pub constantly. Everyone there thought they were having a very in-depth affair, even before it got to that point. Walking in there was the hardest thing I had ever done in my life after all the stuff that happened. Since it was a small, consistant crowed...well...the rumors were worse than high school, and you can bet they all embellished what had happened a great deal. (Although, I had the best type of revenge...when I did start hanging out there, everyone always said how sweet and nice I was...how much they liked me...and it was "her" crowed. You can bet she heard more than she ever wanted to about me...)

I was strangely relieved when he lost his job there. (Although it made us both unemployed at the time.) I actually used to get panic attacks (randomly) when I walked into the place.

I read something about how emotional betrayal is much harder for a woman to deal with, while it's the sexual betrayal that's tough for a man to deal with.

That makes complete sense to me...

...the PA sounds more like just a piece of a**...

You know, that wasn't exactly it, either. They were "best friends" for about three months leading up the actual sep and then PA. Drove me nuts. I got so ticked off at him, I blew up at him one night because he spent more time with her than me.

H...had some childhood traumas. His obsession with hanging around xow was that he thought she was helping him learn how to cope--he used to say they were "exactly the same." What really was happening is that she was enabling him. Badly. He wasn't sleeping, he was jumpy...well, there were other really weird things going on, and he was acting pretty crazy. (I don't mean in the delusional obsessed way of xrm. I also don't want to go into detail, since it's very personal stuff for H.)

I found out later that she was feeding that. He told me later that she was literally making him relive his past pain--said it felt as bad as when the stuff first happened. She was also feeding the idea that he needed to move out, get on with his life, etc...

H was so messed up, I honestly don't believe he was thinking clearly. And that there was a PA...well...that's actually pretty typical behavior of H before we started dating. He was promiscuous. In a weird way, it was his way of trying to deal with our splitting up. (He told me later that xow got sick of hearing about me all the time...LOL...)

I don't condone his actions. But I understand how he got the place he did.

Yes, the repeat is REALLY hard to deal with. My H described it not as him running to someone else, but trying to run away from the pain of our relationship and of his life at that time.

I think it's the same way with my H. He would say stuff like "I've caused too much damage" or "There's no way to fix this." I think he needed to see that both options hurt--leaving wasn't any easier than staying. Might was well get through the pain and be with the one you love.

You have been really patient with your H, and being patient with his lingering contact with xrm

Thank you for saying that. H certainly gives me the impression that I'm being pushy and obstinate about the whole thing.

My anger flares the highest when I am going along peacefully and BOOM, there they are again.

Exactly. I am much better at keeping my reactions in check than I used to be. But I'm still human. I think the surprise of it is really hard to deal with.

Wow, I know that panicky feeling SO WELL. A lot of different things can trigger it - any reminder of xow, songs on the radio, etc.

TV shows seem to do it to me. There have been a couple of times I've been watching something, in a perfectly okay mood, and then just burst into uncontrollable tears.

Oh...and I managed to stay home and in control while H was at work. And yes, she did show up in the club. (With her sister.) Just said hi to him, and that was it--guess she was flirting with some other guy. (H told me the guy is a player, and that he hopes she gets played by him.) So no panicking on my part--I could feel myself started that way, and didn't let it get out of hand. I know what that feels like, and I don't want to feel like that again.

[Nevanna]

I did some more thinking about this last night. I was in a grumpy mood--touch of a cold--but I find it easier to act as if with H when I'm grumpy than when I'm upset.

I think there are several reasons why xrm bothers me so much more than xow. For one, he had the gall to move her into a place that was supposed to be my home after he kicked me out. (Although, to be fair, he did try to get two other guys to move in. He didn't have anyone, she offered, and he needed the money. And he did know how upset it would make me.)

I'm also bothered because I feel like he hasn't acknowledged his frienship with her was over the line. (Again, in fairness for him, women misunderstand him all of the time. The way he talks to people always comes across as flirtatious--it's this way he has of listening and paying attention to a person. He actually is the same way with guys--just doesn't have that effect. ) But I'm bothered by how attached he was to her. It took him awhile to admit the whole mess with xow was an "affair"--but H doesn't seem to understand that there are such things as an EA. Words mean a lot to me...my LL is both touch and WOA. And something about hearing him acknowledge that it was too much would do a lot for me.

I also understand that he will have to have that connection broken for awhile before he'll be able to see that. With xow, I insisted all contact be cut off. He wasn't very happy about it, but I told him that was how it had to be. So I'm (unfortunately) familiar with all of the stages.

I'm also bothered because I feel like he's been nicer to her than he was to me. He could just pack all my things, call my parents, and have my stuff waiting at the door. With her, he was trying to be gentle, and give her hints, and be "understanding." (Again, to be fair, he told me that he hated how he handled it with me, and was trying to be a better person because he knows what an @$$hole he can be.) But he's also let it drag out longer than he would have with most people. This is someone who, at one point, was making some sore of subtle threats toward me. (He never did tell me exactly what she said or implied. Only that he would feel better if I spent the night elsewhere.) And then, of all things, he said the weirdest thing last night...that he should have "cut her out completely" long time ago. (What??? There was still some chance of their "being in the same loop"???)

I'm bothered because he allowed someone to, consistantly, disrespect me. And not only did he defend her, but he still wanted to be "friends" with her.

I'm bothered that he just somehow didn't see that she was interested in him romantically. (Which, I somehow find incredibly hard to believe. He's very observant...so either he did know and isn't being straight with me or he really does just want to have friends so badly he's willing to see them was the kind of person he wants to. Knowing H, that is actually possible.) I mean, the things she did were so blatant. I asked him last night how he could have a picture of her up on his computer, but not one of me. He then told me that he did--but that he kept finding that it had "fallen over." (OMG, does he not realize how silly that sounds??)

Now, I'm not usually a paranoid person, but does that strike anyone else as a little odd?? That is just "coincidentally" happened to have "fallen over"--most of the time. (The fact that he says things like that to me...a lot....makes me think he really just didn't get it.)

I'm hurt because of this whole other life he had during the sep. (I know, I know, kind of silly...) It's not that he hung out with other guys. It's that he hung out with other women. And he'll bring them up now and then. Like this one woman, who said she was "in love" with H. (He quit hanging out with her altogether after that.) I mentioned how at least she didn't call constantly--then I said something about she was probably just infatuate with him, anyway, since she couldn't have been around him enough to be "in love." He then told me that he had known her for three months. Something about that statement just hurt so bad...I hated that he was around all these people all of the time...

I'm also hurt because, looking back, he's always had these sort of "friendship" since we've been together. I don't think it's intentional...I'm not even sure he realized that it could be harmful. And the others were so much milder.

While we were engaged, and I was still in college, he became friends with this girl who was on the dance team. Used to stop by her booth at the mall to chat with her. Talked about her quite a bit--and got upset when he realized that he had a crush on her. Really freaked him out. I didn't think much of it, and then I graduated, and that was the end of that. (He didn't even have her phone number.)

Then there was this girl who played in the band with me. We were friends, partied together some, nothing really more meaningful than that. She was very pretty. H hung out with all of us, and they got to be pretty friendly. He got so he was making the one-hour trip to see her once every week or two. At first, I didn't think much of it. Toward the end, it was kind of weird. But it still wasn't any big deal.

And then there was xow. And then, three months later xrm.

To be fair, H and I have had the discussion that it doesn't work to have opposite-gender friends. And he's been cautious about it. We've even discussed how we each came up with (on our own) guidelines to keep things in check.

I did have a MF who, in retrospect, probably was more fond of me than was appropriate. It started out being a group of us from work that hung out together...and then it was just myself and him. Someone once suggested xow might have been, at first, a way of "getting back at me"--and that is just got way out of hand. I made sure to cut off contact with him a long time ago, even before I ran across DB.

H also told me that it was "weird" living with xrm--that he didn't really like it. I'm hoping that, now that he's had a taste of what it's like to live with someone else, he'll appreciate being with me that much more.

H said to me over the weekend that he feels like I'm punishing me. I admit, I did do that after the first sep. But I feel like I've been trying really hard not to be that way this time.

I think this may be a combination of things... I think his guilt is a big part of it. I also think he was just plain old overly sensitive this weekend. He wasn't feeling well, and was taking all kinds of stuff out of proportion. Case in point--my computer got killed over the weekend by a virus, more than likely by him looking at some adult sites --and he was paranoid that I was going to be mad at him. Frustrated...yes. Mad? No. (Although I did ask him to quit surfing for the stuff, since I need to be able to use the comp for work.)

But he also took something I said waaaay out of proportion. He was talking about the movie "Lost in Translation"--said it was boring, I had never seen it. Said it was about an affair. I asked if they slept together, and he said no. I made some comment that those kind--emotional affairs--are just as bad as the physical ones. He got pretty upset, accused me of "throwing it in his face." I had to convince I didn't mean anything on him about it at all. (And I really didn't!)

I'm planning on looking into MC once my salary kicks in. I'm also going to do a lot of interviewing over the phone before I go in for an appointment. I've considered doing a phone consultation, but I would really prefer a face-to-face C that maybe H and I could see together. (He has said he would like to go!)

I realize that H is working very, very hard to make me happy. He has done soooo many nice things for me. And it's not that I don't appreciate them. I've made very sure to tell him that. I just...need some time to get through all of these feelings. I honestly believe it's just going to take time. I've told him that, told him to just give me time, and that we will be okay. (Although I did ask him if he felt better than he did a couple of months ago, and he said "much better"--so that's progress... )

The annoying thing is that there was a point, at the end of the sep where I was actually able to completely let go of everything that had happened. It was the most liberating feeling in the world... That old saying about "a weight off my shoulders" sure felt true. I'm trying to get back to that feeling again.

[Mak_]

I asked him last night how he could have a picture of her up on his computer, but not one of me. He then told me that he did--but that he kept finding that it had "fallen over." (OMG, does he not realize how silly that sounds??)

Hi Nevanna, I have a similar sit. W has pix of OM on my home PC, I told W that it bothers me but she hasn’t taken them out. I could just go in and delete them all, but I would prefer to see W delete them herself. We have tons of pix of all three of us, but in them there’s a folder with the pix of OM. Every now and then I backup my PC and it bothers me that pix of OM are included in the backup. W recently made me remove some x-rated pix off my PC, I complied. How would you handle this?

MakDaddy

[xalelle]

Mak,

Let her deal with it in her own time. If you get overly pushy about it she will just get angry back - you know this.

I know that at some point I will have to deal with this myself - I know of lots of pix my W has of OM hidden away on cd's - should we reconcile it will be up to HER to get rid of them - I cannot make her.

There are some good threads around somewhere about dealing with reminders of A's - I will try to find them and quote them for you when I have a chance - have you ever read MF's or the Geno threads? they are somewhere in there..

It basically came down to those pics (in the case I remember it was memorabilia from something that OM did with W and kids!) are part of the history of the R - somewhat painfull, but they have to be integrated somehow. There will always be things to remind us of the past, so simply destroying pix will not erase that. Remind yourself it is over, and it has helped you build a better R. Thank that memory for keeping you strong in your resolve.