We've been at the rebuilding our marriage stage for 20 months now. It seems to me that this is an entirely different process than getting through the "we're on the verge of breaking up stage". For instance it makes sense to avoid OR talk in the latter stage but it is very important to have honest, self and spouse nurturing OR conversations in the rebuilding stage. It is important that these conversations build true intimacy, respect and appreciation for differences between spouses and self respect and appreciation. I've learned a lot but want to remember that there is always a lot to learn and I want to go for it.
Dialoging (as we learned at Retrouvaille) has helped us more than anything else we've done. What I find most wonderful about it is that it is only a technique and we provide all the content. It promotes intimacy because it is about accepting and understanding feelings without viewing them as right or wrong.
It seems to me that putting a marriage back together transcends "dos and don'ts" the exception being: Do be kind to your spouse and yourself. But maybe I have somewhat to learn in this regard as well.
What's most important that you all have learned?
[This message has been edited by alottolearn (edited 02-25-2001).]
Hi alottolearn- This is a great idea for a topic and I hope to give it more thought and respond with some of the things I've encountered. I'm continuing to learn during the rebuilding process with my H and it is interesting to think back and reflect on the periods when I was I suppose less willing to accept certain things that didn't jive with my own exact way of thinking or my plans. I now have a healthier understanding of what it means to accept differences and to work together, as opposed to (for my part) being someone who too often placed herself in the role of the "ultimate persuader." The subtleties of each approach are amazing, as are the differing results. Take care-Jamie
If you Don't mind, I'm gona bust in here and participate. My W and I are also in the rebuilding process. I did not realize how hard this would be until a couple of weeks ago when W and I went away skiing for a couple of days (no kids). This was our first real alone time in 5 years. I felt like we were starting over again complete with some awkward moments.
I still find myself needing to be very careful with what comes forth from my mouth. I'm still very careful about initiating OR discussions as they tend to cause tension in my W. My W was never much of a talker.
I am familiar with Micheles constructive conversation techniques and do try to use them. I'm curious how you lead into OR discussions with your W, how they go and how often these conversations actually come up.
Last night, I took off for an hour or so, came home and got ready for bed. W started questioning me on where I went. "I said out and about, no place special". She then commented that she did'nt like to feel like she needed to pry this information out of me and I replied "then don't, you don't have to worry if I'm out feeling depressed or out with anyone. I just needed to get out, clear my head and think about stuff without distraction". I still don't think she was entirely happy with my response.
My question is this. In the early stages, I was urged to be less consistant and reliable (big 180 for me). It certainly sparked interest from W and as a result I have continued this activity from time to time. The problem is now I actually look forward to this Kents night out alone. Do I ever stop being mystery man or do I just keep putting off her prying questions?
So glad you are going to write here Jamie! Hope lots of people will who have learned about rebuilding.
A quick note to Kent: My H doesn't pry or even get very curious when I'm mysterious. You post intriguiges me though because perhaps your wife wants a bit more closeness with you? If you are enjoying the independence then perhaps the challenge is to find a new way to be close? Only know a little of your story. How would you describe where you and your wife are in the building process?
How did you learn about Michele's communication techniques?
Alot, W and I went to Micheles Chicago seminar this past weekend. There is a thread in newcomers about getting my autographed DB book. She highlighted the communication techniques in her presentation. http://www.weiner-davis.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/002714.html
Where are we at Hmmmm! About a year and a half ago the bad stuff started happening. Evident by W's pulling back from the family, going out alone and staying out till the wee hours, hiding cell phone bills, Deleted E-mails to male friends, gifts, etc... I flipped and started the crying, whining, spying routine. Things came to a head last september/october when W brought up her desire to consider separating during a C session.
I had found the DB book the week before this bomb and was about half way through it when the knife went in my heart. Since I had nothing else to go on, I gave myself up to Micheles principles as they seemed to make sense. That night after the bomb I stayed up and wrote W a letter making a number of promises to her. All I asked in return was for some time to work on our R. I turned a number of 180's and they worked like magic. W has certainly decided that I was serious about making things better which has resulted in her decision to do the same.
My big dilemma is how to get W to talk to me more. She has always been very quiet. W has said on several occasions that I speak enough for both of us. When we saw Michele, my W even brought this issue up. You can see the response on my "autograph" Newcomer thread.
I think W does want to move closer sometimes. I also think that she has trouble handling it when she gets it resulting in her pull back. I have only recently identified this dynamic. It happens with me and the kids. Alot of it has to do with the way she was raised as an only child with absent parents. In many ways she was raised by her grandparents.
I am trying to figure out how to help her handle her problem of "too much family" as well as support her in her search for her identity. I admit that I don't know where all this is leading. I do see positive progress for the most part. W even enrolled back in a local junior college for one night a week.
I'm not sure how long identity crisis can take to figure out. I guess it does'nt really matter as I have nothing better to do anyway. At least I have been able to implement some real changes in my attitude that have helped me and our R. I no longer harbor any resentment for what happened and have pretty much given up on the past.
I admit that I am still waiting to hear from W in regards to her previous men friends. I did find enough evidence to suggest at least a an EA. I decided that I will just have to wait for W to bring this subject up. I have already decided to forgive if my suspicion rings true. I accept that there is a possibility that I may never know.
W and I are seeing a C about once a month. As slow as things seem to be moving, once a month is more than enough at this point.
As I said, things are much better. We are spending some time togather without the kids and are certainly having alot more fun. I am grateful for each and every day at this point in my life.
Hope this helps you see where I am at.
Kent
[This message has been edited by KentS (edited 02-21-2001).]
Alot, Some more of a profile. I'm 42, W is 36, 3 kids(3,5 and 12). The 12 year old is my step daughter. My 1st marriage, W's 2nd marriage. Married almost 7 years. W is stay at home (kinda sorta).
Thought I'd jump in here too as I seem to be at a similar place as most of you.
I am wondering, now that we are all at the rebuilding stage, how long do we wait for out non-communicative spouse to speak up?
Kent-your wife could be my husband (save a few critical physical differences) but he's never been much of a talker, well, he was at the beginning of our R, but has gotten progressively more silent over the years.
I do not initiate the OR talks (have not since 23 Dec) however, at counseling I let it all come out. He regognizes my 'changes' (thanks to the DB book) but I'm just tired of seemingly being the only one who's changed. He says he feels he's more open, expressive and talkative, but I don't hear it, not about OR and the 'why's' and 'how comes' of his A. (for some reason this is very important for me to understand) He does not initiate OR talks, or even any kind of 'there is something bothering me' talks, and I can tell when he's got something on his mind, when I ask, he just says 'nothing's wrong'...so I let it drop and say ok and that if he feels like talking, I'm here to listen. And I try to act as if.
Don't know what else to do/say. We usually get along well-buddies-laughing and joking, cooperating in the house and with the kids....but I still feel there's a lot more underneath he's not able/ready to let out. He knows I don't trust him but it's like he doesn't trust me either-and he has no reason not to...I have always been faithful to him (even though I've had a few oppoutunities not to have been-but I meant my vows).
Patience is a virtue...one that I sorely lack. I feel our marriage is worth the wait but sometimes it's overwhelming. Thanks for the ramble...
Me2, As a guy, I can imagine why he does not open up. He is probably afraid of your reaction. He is afraid of exposing feelings that he is still somewhat confused about. He is afraid he will do more damage opening his mouth. He probably does not trust you to accept the things he has done if he tells you about them as he is having trouble accepting them himself. He is probably scared.
As a guy, these are the kind of feelings I have. Use the C sessions as the vehicle for these kind of discussions. Pick one topic to work on during the session. Thats what I do. My next C session with W is in March. My topic is personal identity and why does W feel like she lost hers.
I hope that one day we get to the point where we can talk about this stuff without a C. Right now I am a little gun shy.
Kent, thanks so much for the summary of the seminar. Don't know if you remember but you were one of the people who helped me most through my roughest time (Nov-Jan.) I have carefully read about where you and wife are. By the way, my H used to be like your wife, except that he can talk a blue streak about very superficial things. He has changed and the only person happier about this than I, is he. I've come to believe that people who don't open up are almost always, underneath how ever they present their silence, very affraid. The very good news is that we all cherish being understood and accepted.
Have ya'll read Jamie's post started on 2/15? (If time is short try my "thanks jamie" post for what I thought were the highlights.) There is a lot about patience in there!
Love, ALTL
[This message has been edited by alottolearn (edited 02-22-2001).]
Kent, You hit the nail on the head ....what you say is exactly true, we both recognize it, have talked about it together and in C and I feel I have come a long way in changing that about myself...my problem is that I do not feel any 'changes' within him-like his opening up to me about his feelings and OR. There are still things he just doesn't tell me/talk about because of how he thinks I will react-although I have really surprised him over the past few months by my reactions (or rather lack thereof) to him.
I have had to ask him on a few occasions not to precede something he's gonna say to me with "Now don't get upset...but..." I have asked him to just tell me if my reaction to whatever he tells me upsets him and makes him feel 'unsafe'. So far-it has not and he has been comfortable, but not comfortable enough to completely open up about his A and his feelings/mindset that led him to that-like I've said in other posts/threads-I did not think my marriage was as bad as he believed it to be.
It is very hard to detach when he's there all the time-living with you-carrying on as if nothing is wrong....
ALTL-any tips that help you stay detached and not be so needy yet still get the closeness that you need in your marriage? This is a tough balancing act-sometimes it overwhelmes me. H has been home from his 1 year overseas since last July, I knew of EA last Jan but only found out it was really PA this past Nov. Relatively new for me, but been 'over' for him for a year now. We never separated as a result of A but were separated because of his job (while it was going on and after I found out-I caught him talking to a woman on Yahoo IM last Jan-he denied PA) so our forced separation was probably a blessing (?) Anyway I'm still dealing with roller coaster emotions, but not as severe as they used to be the snapshot pictures in my head all the time of them together have subsided...but I still struggle to be much more introverted and detached than is in my nature to be-and of course I still have many setbacks.
lastly... Jamie-my congratulations to you and your family-you have been through so much you deserve much happiness, please keep us updated.
