Print Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,885
sage Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,885
New thread!

Last night was good. I finally finished up some stuff for work (pretty early) so that was a huge weight off my mind! I left around 5:30 and went food shopping. H had class until 7:45. I had fun shopping (I find it relaxing! I don't know why!) and came home and made dinner for myself. I also cleaned up a wee bit around the house (it's driving me crazy!). h called around 8pm and told me which train he would be on.

I picked him up and we watched our Tivo'd NYPD Blue of the night before. He was very snuggly and cute! Gotta love that! He has class again tonight so I'll meet him afterwards for a "date".

Oh, and that work stuff? It was for a meeting this AM -- well...the host of the meeting didn't actually plan to be in today and neglected to tell the two of us who were kicking butt trying to get prepared. We found out 15 minutes after the meeting was supposed to have started. GRRR.

Sage


Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,885
sage Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,885


Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,885
sage Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,885
Here are notes from my 14th thread:

Sage's 14th thread

Awesome insight from LL:
Quote:

sometimes ya gotta just stop picking at the scab, stop pulling the cover off and looking at the healing wound..sometimes ya just gotta say..ya crapola that this "accident" happend..I learned from it and now I'll be a better driver. The scar doesn't make me any less of a person than someone who didn't have an "accident".

so sage...what is it going to take for you to accept that your m is strong and healthy?
what is it going to take for you to accept that you are strong and healthy (and wonderful, and smart and ... the list goes on)?

what's it going to take for you to accept that although there is a scar you didn't loose a limb and eventually that scar may not even itch anymore.





Thoughts on forgiveness and crazymaking:
Quote:

So...I had a not pleasant thought this morning as to other reasons why I've been crazy making of late...some of it is definitely what I've said -- wanting to get reassurance from h that I AM good enough, that things ARE good, that he HAS chosen me, etc. That the world is AOK.

But...I also realized that my current mental gyrations are a way of keeping us both bound by a lack of forgiveness.

I'm not overtly asking for reassurances or bringing up the A...but my WITHHOLDING of joy, of complete acceptance of how good things are for us now, of love, of commitment, of calm is a way (in part) of reminding ME and of reminding HIM (I suppose) of THE STORY. You know the STORY -- where I was hurt and betrayed and on and on.

WHY? Because if I cling to the STORY...I get to cling to all the hurt. And I get to NOT QUITE forgive. And in some totally perverse (and untrue) way I get to feel a bit safer...

IF I don't fully forgive and it happens again, well, I won't have been duped.

If I don't fully forgive then maybe the fall won't be so hard or long.

If I don't fully forgive don't I get to withhold ALL that I am SO AFRAID of giving to him? Don't I get to do it "justifiably"? Well...I'd TOTALLY love you but you did this bad thing....

How convenient for me.

Everytime I look at him and think "are you still in touch with ow"? I get to do two things:

1. I get to keep myself mired in "the story" -- so safe
2. I get to withdraw and withhold

Oh, wait, another thing...I get to passively punish h. Yah, I'm not yelling at him or throwing it in his face...but I do get to protect myself AND punish him at the same old time.

I don't think the punishing element is the conscious reason...well...maybe the punishing of ME is...but it happens nonetheless. A byproduct of the pseudo-safe area I think I've created.

It's time for this to stop.
it's time to forgive myself and h.
It's time to stop withholding. It hurts both of us.

Time to go bravely where no Sage has gone before!

Goal #3 -- To recognize periods of crazymaking and withholding and turn them on their butt

a. To keep track of my state of mind by counting (and recording) the number of negative thoughts per day. This is supposed to help cut down on them.

b. To pay special attention (and note) the negative fantasy thoughts I sometimes have where I've caught h cheating again and tell him I'm leaving

c. To generate a list of Sage and h items -- some for just me to comfort myself and some for him and some for us. Things to do (small, whatever) that I can substitute for the times when I am eager to make a passive fuss and/or pull away

d. to consciously substitute either NO action or a positive action for the crazymaking and withdrawing






A recurring theme:
Quote:

I guess it was just eye-opening to realize that I've identified this as an issue over and over again. Here's another weird thing...cleaning out my office yesterday I found an article (opinion piece, actually) from the paper from 3 years ago...it was titled "Trying to Learn how to Let Love In" and it was about this woman's struggle to learn how to be loved. I cut it out mid 2000.

I guess the teacher keeps appearing again and again and again...in a variety of guises.

Here's a strange thought...my biggest challenge appears to be learning how to be loved...to accept that I am loveable...there are times (ASSumption) when it seems as though h's challenge is to know that his love is GOOD ENOUGH. What a wonderful pair we will make in our VICTORY!

Thoughts on how to let h know what I need:
I was thinking this morning that I think I might be missing a fundamental point with h...he VERY often responds positively to me when I let him know how much being with him means to me....lately I've been holding back on that (hell, since I started DB'ing!) because I know he's busy with school and illness...I actually wonder what might have happened if I had said to him...I would really love to be able to spend an hour with you of alone time...would you look at your schedule over the next day or two and let me know if you can fit that in?

Point is...I think sometimes my desire to "go with the flow" not only makes me a bit pent up (in terms of wanting to be with him) but may hide from him how important it is to me.






From my 15th thread:

Sage's 15th thread (exercise for forgiveness)

I took a class on forgiveness that was absolutely amazing. Working through the exercise (write it down!) was really helpful:
Quote:

Learning to Forgive Step 1: Owning Projections

1. Consider someone who irritates or angers you or someone you are holding a grievance toward or someone who simply drives you crazy. Write a paragraph describing that person as fully as you can. Be sure to use the adjectives and descriptive phrases that explain what makes the person so irritating.

2. Underline all the adjectives and descritptive phrases you used to describe the person. Using the sentence stem that follows, fill in the blanks with the adjectives and descriptive phrases you chose to describe the person in your paragraph:

I am having <name of person> be the <adjective or descriptive phrase> part of me, the <next adjective or descriptive phrase part of me>, etc.

Repeat this stem until all of the adjectives or descriptive phrases have been included.

3. Consider each adjective or descriptive phrase. Ask yourself the following questions:

What is my awareness of that quality within myself?
What is my relationship to that quality in myself?
How well developed is that quality in myself?
Is it a part of me that used to be apparent but is not anymore?
Is it a part of me that has the potential to surface under certain circumstances?
Is is a part of me that is either so suppressed or so under-developed that I don't know it's there?
Is there a way I am using this other person to carry that quality, refusing to see it in myself?
Can I allow myself to acknowledge and open to that qulaity in myself and to soften towards it?
Can I accept its presence and commit to working toard an attitude of equanimity and kindness toward this
part of myself.

Remember: We often project onto others the parts of ourself we dislike. A Course in Miracles states "You never hate your brother for his sins, but only for your own. Whatever form his sins appear to take, it but obscures the fact that you believe them to be yours." The question then becomes "What is my relationship to that part of myself, to that quality in myself that I see in the other? Can I learn
to accept all the parts of my being human?"

Learning to Forgive Step 2: Cultivating Compassion

This step is based on the idea stated in A Course in Miracles that everything is either love or a call for love. If we or others behave badly then on some level it is a call for love -- the desire to meet some basic human need.

1. Consider the person you are holding the grievance against. Using a feelings inventory, see if you can identify the nature of your feelings of upset (I am mad, scared, confused, diappointed, etc). Then, see if you can identify the unmet needs associated with your feeling (feeling scared may indicate a need for physical safety; feeling angry may indicate a need for feeling understood and/or for feeling love).

2. Now consider from Step 1 (Owning Projections) a typical situation in shich the person you describe irritates you. Take some aspect of the situation in which the person behaved in a way that you found particularly annnoying. Now consider what that person may have been feeling prior to and while doing the behavior that annoyed you. Write down what you come up with (feelings). Now consider what needs the person may have had in that situation that was not being met.

3. Go back to the second part of Step 1 (Owning Projections) where you discovered some part of yourself you may have been projecting onto the person who annoys you. Go to part 2 of THIS step and come up with the feelings and unmet needs associated with that projected quality. Write them down.

When we begin to recognize the feelings and needs in ourselves and others, we cultivate empathy and compassion. The less-than-nurturing behaviors that result from the difficult feelings and unmet needs become much more understandable when we understand the context from which these behaviors emerge.

Learning to Forgive Step 3: Remembering the Love

"A Course in Miracles" says "Dream of your brother's kindnesses, instead of dwelling in your dreams on his mistakes. Select his thoughtfulness to dream about instead of counting up the hurts he gave."

1. Regarding the one you are holding a grievance toward, try to remember what has been loving or pleasing about that relationship. Were there times of real enjoyment and satisfaction that you can remember? What qualities does this person possess that you appreciate? What things have they done for you or given you that have contributed to your happiness? Try to list three examples of what has been positive about this relationship. Remember that our predominant thoughts determine our experience and attitude about our world.

2. Think of the annoyances associated with this person and ask yourself these questions: What is the lesson here and how can I use this learning to grow and heal? What is the opportunity here? Write down your answers.

3. Imagine the person you are holding the grievance against as a very young child. Can you get in tough with the infant or child in this person and imagine s/he calling out for love? Imagine yourself giving love and affection to this child. Write down what you come up with.

4. Repeat 1-3 but now in regards to yourself, in reference to the disliked part of you that is represented by the one you hold a grievance towards. In #1, recall things you appreciate and love about yourself. In #2, see your own negative qualities as an opportunity to learn and grow. For #3, imagine yourself as an infant or child calling out for love and then imagine giving yourself that love.

Learning to Forgive Step 4: Moving On

1. Take some time to read over and reflect on what you have written so far. Recall the grievances and any disliked aspects of yourself you may have been projecting onto the resented other. Review the call for love, the hurts, the feelings and needs both in the other and in yourself. Then recall the loving aspects of this relationship: memories of appreciation, satifsfactions and gratitude. Do not judge yourself if you have difficulty doing this. Just be aware of whatever thoughts and feelings are present. Let all the related issues, thoughts and feelings wash over you.

2. Now ask some questions of yourself:
a. what is this really about? What is the main problem? What is the core issue here? You may discover something new.

b. What would it look and feel like if this matter were all resolved? Try to picture a situation in which healing has happened that is reasonable and realistic.

c. What needs to happen to move this matter in the direction of healing, harmony and growth?

What is a good small step in the right direction for this matter? Ask and wait with expectancy...believing that our wise inner self on some level knows how we are best to proceed.

Take as long as you need and write down what you come up with.

3. Look at your ideas and see if there is one you feel most drawn to right now. Make a commitment to yourself to follow through on whatever action would move the idea forward. Some examples of possible next steps are:

Share with the person any appreciations, loving thoughts you are drawn to share

Choose to work on a projected disliked aspect of yourself

Approach the person with your experience of this process
Etc.

REPEAT AS NEEDED!






Thoughts on the book “Learned Optimism”
Quote:

I'm reading a really interesting book called "Learned Optimism" by Martin Seligman. It's about how people react to setbacks and negative situations and is focused on how to break pessimistic thought processes.

He says that there are three crucial elements to how we react to bad things happening: permanence (whether we believe that bad things happening to us are permanent), pervasiveness (whether we think that bad things happening in one area of our lives implies that all aspects of our lives are bad) and personalization (whether we view the causes of bad things happening as internal to us or external).

Interestingly enough, I scored well on the permanence and pervasiveness parts...I apparently don't view bad things as eternal (more than the average person) and I don't let bad things happening in one area pervade the rest of my life.

When I reflect on this...I'd say this is true about me.

Probably not a shock to ANYONE who reads my threads but I scored rather poorly on the personalization aspect. Apparently I tend to feel largely responsible for the bad things that occur...

When I was doing the forgiveness exercise over the weekend and I identified one of my grievances towards my mother as her "self-centeredness" I had to apply that attribute to myself, too. I think that my self-centeredness manifests itself differently than my mother's ... she thinks the world revolves around her (or should) but is unwilling to take responsibility for actions and results (sweeping statement...bear with me)...I think the world revolves around me in the negative sense...that the things I do or don't do cause bad things to happen...different driving thoughts but similar outcomes.

I remember h saying to me "you think everything is about you".

I guess it's partly about feeling responsible and partly about CONTROL...if I'm the root cause then I can fix everything right? Been there, tried to do that!

So...I'm just sort of babbling...the book is interesting...not sure it goes further than that!






More notes on the book:
Quote:

Well...I finished "Learned Optimism" and thought I'd post a few notes from it since it's heading back to the library...

Re. Rumination -- When trouble strikes many women think and many men act. When something bad happens to a woman, she tries to figure out why -- she broods and relives the events over and over. A man acts -- he distracts himself from thinking about it. He'll go and take the next step without bothering to think through what went wrong. "If depression is a disorder of thinking, pessimism and rumination stok it. the tendency to analyze feeds right into it; the tendency to act breaks it up."

Instructions on how to keep an ABCDE record (a log of bad events and your explanations of them):

A -- Adversity -- Record your description of what happened not your interpretation of it. (Example: the dishwasher stopped working...)

B -- Belief -- Record how you interpret the adversity. Be sure to separate your thoughts from your feelings (which will be recorded later). (Ex: The diswasher broke because I am an incompetent housekeeper)

C -- Consequences -- Record your feelings and what you did. Write down as many feelings and actions as you were aware of (ex. I felt sad, depressed and mad at myself. I kicked the dishwasher and then did it again...resulting in a very painful evening. I also spent the whole evening in a running dialogue internally about how I am a terrible housekeeper. I had trouble sleeping as a result and tossed and turned all night.)

D -- Disputation and Distraction -- Distraction can be about using thought stopping techniques to break out of the cycle...but disputation is a good next step -- Giving the negative thoughts an argument. Go on the attack. Dispute the beliefs that follow adversity. (Ex. I am blowing things out of proportion. The dishwashwer is 10 years old and has been flaky since the day we moved in. Maybe it's time for a new dishwasher, maybe the plumber can fix it. But either way, this situation isn't based on my ability to houseclean.) Important: Use evidence, alternatives, and decatastrophizing to dispute.

E -- Energization -- Kind of a summary and identifying steps forward (I felt less demoralized when I talked back to myself. The broken dishwashwer is not my fault. I did identify, though, that I'm still feeling pretty badly about the state of the house and that taking action in this area would be a big positive. Doing the flybaby routine for 15 minutes a day would go a long way towards helping that.)

The book suggests recording ABCDE situations daily for a week.

Emotions and actions do not usually follow adversity directly. Rather the follow from your beliefs. This means that if you change your mental responses to adversity, you'll cope better.

the main tool for changing your interpretations is disputation. Practice arguing with your automatic interpretations ALL THE TIME from now on. Anytime you find yourself down or anxious or angry, ask what you are saying to yourself. Sometimes, the belief will be accurate -- so focus on ways to alter the situation. But sometimes the negative beliefs are distortions. challenge them. don't let them run your emotional life.





A stream of consciousness post:
Quote:

I met h Friday night at school (he had classes). He was absolutely joyful...he had spent the day at school studying and he was reinvigorated about school, starting the new semester, etc. We were going out for drinks and food to celebrate his terrific success in semester 1.

I tried to match his mood but something was holding me back. I'm not sure if this will make ANY sense but in some ways I think I've been very afraid of the GOOD times because they feel like a precursor to the BOMB. Sigh. What I mean is is that I can remember some wonderful, joyful, tremendous times with h pre-bomb and in my warped little searching for clues mind I think I've started feeling "oh...maybe the GOOD times were what lead to the bomb...maybe I got cavalier and took things for granted...maybe I had it TOO GOOD and if I feel that way again it'll happen again...etc". I KNOW it's perverse and nonsensical and all of that but I'm still so hung up on WHAT HAPPENED. It's confusing as hell to remember so many positive times and not see how it jumped from that to hell in a handbasket.

anyway...my mental gyrations definitely didn't make lightening my mood any easier because THEN I started feeling like "WHY CAN I NOT GET OVER THIS?" and feeling like if h noticed that I wasn't jubilant then he would be mad a la "it's the same old thing...you're never letting this go..we should get D".

Watch Sage torture herself.

But...h's wonderful mood and just BEING with him made it somewhat better and we laughed and talked and hung out. He said a couple of times "Am I babbling?" because he was just full of words and conversation. I love that.

Saturday I went to town to do a few errands while h studied. When I got home we worked on my resume a bit which just bummed me out and peeved me. Not a great start to the afternoon. Blech. Then later on we went out to dinner and a movie. The night was great.

So...yesterday...we got up, went to the gym and started studying. I'm taking two really tough classes this semester...I think I'll be fine but it's the first time in a LONG time when I think I'm going to need to put a lot of study time in. h was totally motivated to do his studying, as he ALWAYS is lately. By the end of the afternoon I just felt SO out of sorts...really stressed and aggravated and angry and like my needs weren't getting me (huh?) and like I couldn't tell him what I wanted to do or needed to do and like I'd never get my studying done and the laundry folded and the stove was acting up (to match the dishwasher that hasn't worked for months) and on and on and on. I just wanted to crawl into a hole by myself. Well...after chewing h out for just being.

And then it hit me.

I haven't felt this way in a LONG time....not since prebomb days. But, yes indeedy, I used to feel that way A LOT in the year before the bomb. A LOT. And the difference between then and now? Well...NOW I was able to sit back and listen to what I was telling myself and distill all of my feelings into buckets and see that h hadn't done one darned thing to "Make" me feel this way...every little thing I was feeling was self created. He didn't know that I was worried about the laundry or feeling stressed about school..I hadn't told him...and he hadn't not met my NEEDS because I hadn't communicated them...

What was THEN like? Well prebomb I would have stomped around feeling mad at the world, but mostly mad at h, and I would have treated him like I just wanted to BE AWAY from him and then I would be mad because he didn't get that wanting to BE AWAY really meant...let me be away for a while but then ask me to come back into your world...

I KNOW I didn't cause my h's EA...but for the first time in a LONG time I was able to FEEL what might have very well created a lot of tension and stress in our m.

it wasn't the good, joyful, times together. It was the blaming, judgement, ASSumptions, non-communicating ball of fury.

It felt truly liberating to be able to see it and shed it.






My own mini-MLC (have to say I’m not completely out of it!)
Quote:

As long as I'm in full disclosure mode, I need to articulate something that hit me this morning (can you see the hint of it in my quote above?)...

I think I'm jealous of my husband.

Maybe jealous isn't the right word. Maybe envious?

'cause for the first time in our m., he's the totally motivated, focused, on top of things, "I know where I'm going" one.

And I feel like the basket case.

For as long as I can remember back (pre-h) I've always known what I've wanted and I've always gone after it with the unbridled passion of a woman on a mission.

I can't remember when knowing what I wanted became so damn blurry....or maybe more to the point...I KNOW what I want from my job, my schooling, my life but I'm sabotaging myself all over the place in some ways...NOT finishing my work, NOT setting aside enough time to study, NOT doing my resume, etc, etc.

I think I joked with h the other day that I had become the anti-Sage...but it doesn't feel funny.

In some ways, it's the residue from the bomb...when I felt like my entire world was thrown into turmoil and I couldn't think of anything but my m. and I couldn't figure out how my m fit with my job or my school or my goals or my desires.

But...it's a year+ later and I still haven't gotten my motivation back in many ways...partly because I think I'm afraid of it...was my full-bore passion for my goals part of what messed us up? But part of it, I think, because I'm punishing someone (ME? H?) by not getting back on the horse so to speak...by not rebuilding my life...repiecing ME as (I think) Jeannine put it.

I guess I feel envious. And I feel resentful. Even though I know in my heart I've created my own sitch (wallowed in my own stuff) I think I still blame h for my own inability/unwillingness to get back to it...

I realize now how I'm holding him responsible for something that he really doesn't have to own...I do...and I think it's my way of not truly forgiving him.

Jeez...what's with all this self-analysis today?

Withholding joy at the good times...not getting my life together as a way of not forgiving...blech.

goals, goals, goals...seems like there's some fodder here, no?





Getting unstuck:
Quote:

I'm feeling refreshed and refocused after noticing yesterday that I've been a bit peevy over the last few weeks...it's a gradual mental shift (downward) that takes me a while to notice...the symptoms are that I start feeling really disconnected from h, I start ASSuming that he's uncomfortable or disconnected from me, etc. I'm sure that sounds strange given ALL the good stuff that goes on for us...but it's an internal thing...I start focusing on "is this real", "is this going to go away" etc and start freaking myself out. It REALLY translates into our interactions even though nothing changes outwardly.

Anyway...I finally really noticed what I was doing yesterday...reacting in FEAR -- focusing on the PAST and projecting it into the FUTURE while failing to note the PRESENT. Doing that is the thing that leaves me afraid and angry and yearning for safety and wanting to protect myself at all costs...it's the thing that makes me pull away just a bit...that makes me scrutinize h's actions...that makes me feel sad and insecure.

So...like I said...I was REALLY able to see what I was doing and put it to a stop, I think...I'm very happy about that.

When I can throw myself into loving h unconditionally and without dwelling on past and future, I do much, much better.

I have noticed a couple of things that I think I need to work on..

1. when I do find myself getting stuck...I start feeling angry and resentful of h for his "you're never going to get over this, I think we should divorce" stance...OK...maybe it hasn't been THAT black and white but definitely the last time I was really having a hard time (new years) he did say something along those lines. When I can remember that that's his response to the PAIN of what happened and its aftermath, I do ok...but when I forget that, and start focusing on the "I want credit for how I've done this; I want you to say 'YOU held us together when I didn't want to" -- well, then I get stuck.

I think Soupman would call those "self-cherishing" thoughts...and I'd agree!

Anyway...I hope that ONE day h can say "I'm really grateful for how you helped us get through this" instead of "you're never going to get over this". Patience.

2. I've also found myself stuck in a cycle on non-forgiveness of late...not just towards h....In general, I sometimes find myself dwelling on what happened...it will be some detail that brings it up .. and I start feeling mad and unforgiving...so THEN I try to turn my attention towards how much pain h must have been in, how he said "I thought our m. was over" due to my anger and all that...and I start feeling as though I can't forgive myself

Again...I'm NOT saying that I'm responsible for h's a...I'm not...but I did create so much pain in our m....






Successes…
Quote:

I've been in major stress mode the last few days -- too much to do at work, school, etc. I described it to h today as having 1 too many balls in the air...it's not so much the amount of work but the fact that it's split into 10 different ways...5 projects (more?) at work, 2 different class, 2 class projects, etc. WHINE.

But you know what...h has rallied, supported, propped me up, listened, suggested, joked and just BEEN THERE. I've talked a lot about how to rebound from flashbacks of the A...but NOW my challenge is to rebound from my misguided belief that my h doesn't want to protect me, love me, support me, be there for me, take care of me, etc. I've had this PICTURE for so long of how I ASSumed he IS and what I'm realizing every darned day is that the picture just ain't accurate.

He is so full of loving gesture towards me...we have this little ritual where if he gets up to go to the gym with me, I give him a foot rub before I leave for work (complete with lotion and all). this AM he got up for the first time in a while and when I went to give him the foot rub was surprised to see that he had written "I LOVE" on the bottom of his left foot and "Sage" on the right.

Does he know how much I love him? that's what I wonder and sometimes worry about...he seems able to capture my heart...do I do that with his, too? I hope so.





Some resources:
Quote:

The KLA tapes did help me. Some of the info is a dupe of the books but some isn't. I think they helped me get to the "next level" after h and I seemed out of crisis mode. I also like tapes for a couple of reasons...I don't have a lot of time to read (but I do have an hour commute each day which is 1 tape per day!) and things do seem to sink in better for me when I hear them. I also seem to need constant reinforcement so having tapes handy helped a great deal.

There's no question, though, that methodically applying the DB principles is what got me out of the hole first...WAY before I knew what to do to make my M. better I knew what I was doing that was making it worse and I stopped doing those things (mostly ). I went looking for a current thread for you but didn't find one...why not start another one (here? in Piecing?) and we can take it step by step????

As for "light his fire" it's a book/tape by Ellen Kreidman. It's one of the tapes that I've listened to over the last 1.5 years + ... I don't recall it as being useful or not useful to tell you the truth...but I'm an information junkie (good bad or otherwise!) so it's all good in that sense....

I did find "Men are from Mars..." by John Gray to be very imformative for me...

To be blunt...I don't think I ever learned how to love someone...and I especially NEVER learned how to love and respect and admire and support a MAN...My two closest role models (mom and grandmother) hated men, my father in particular, so I grew up with the idea that protecting myself through logic and distance and criticism and .... was the best way to live. NOT SO! Living proof right here!

So...much of the work I've done over the last year has been learning how to love another...I feel blessed to have a willing partner to teach me.

So...my comment wasn't intend to mean that men need to be loved differently from women...

It was intended to mean that I was taught that men weren't "worthy" of love...IOW...

I learned growing up that women were:
emotionally superior
stronger
more committed
more loyal
braver
more well rounded
right
etc....

And I learned that men were:
broken
waiting to take advantage of you
always after something
unable to truly give
unable to truly commit
mean
dishonest
etc.

So, when I say that I never learned how to love a man, what I really meant was...I never learned that I wasn't somehow "less" something if I did...

I put my h thru the wringer thinking and acting as though I was perfect and right and he was NOT and was just waiting to take advantage of me.






What coming out of crisis mode looked like:
Quote:

Seattle...I think the "coming out of crisis mode" was sort of evolutionary...it happened in small steps...there was the "I don't think I'll come home and find him gone" milestone then the "I don't think he's loathing our marriage" one then the "he seems marginally recommitted", etc.

My point? That it truly has been a bunch of teeny, tiny babysteps.

I guess the first real signs were when he started talking about the future again...using "we" or "us"...when he started planning or doing things around the house...when he seemed to talk about a life integrated with mine.

He never said "I've changed my mind about wanting a D".

Though over the last year and a half he has said on one occasion "I want to be married to you forever" and just the other day we saw some ducks and he asked if ducks "couple off" and I said "yes, they mate for life" and he said "that sounds like a good plan".

All good stuff.

He did, though, mention D or "being alone" a couple of times even after things felt more righted...always in context of my not having "gotten over" the a. (a la, "I don't think you're ever going to get over this we should split up."

For a long time I had the hope and dream that h would ask me to marry him again... there's so much good in my sitch that I've kind of accepted that I've got what I "need" but I'd be lying if I denied a small part of me...






Sage


Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,159
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,159
Good Afternoon Ms. Awesome Sage!

I was here and couldn't resist the temptation!!!

# 1


Pam

"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned
so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,938
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,938

Sage What an amazing review - I'm going to come back and read it again in the morning !

Slowly


A Liberal Allowance of Time
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,885
sage Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,885
Had a really nice weekend (though, are they ever long enough? I feel like I need a vacation!). Friday we completed our "Oscar movie marathon" by seeing "Kinsey" and then heading out for pizza afterwards. It was a nice evening out.

Saturday I took a French cooking class with my dad. It was a lot of fun -- I got to spend a bunch of time with him and also catch up with my stepmom and half-brother, too. I got home and had a little bit of time to relax before h and I headed off to see a college hockey game. We planned to try out this hot dog place which was close to the arena. We got in the general area and found (amazingly enough) a parking space! (It's a notoriously tough area to park). Problem was the combo of it being a busy street (hard to backup and park) combined with just general lameness (mine) resulted in my having a really tough time parallel parking (kind of unusual for me). h was exasperated and was kind of jerky about the whole thing. When I got out of the car I said something like "did you have to be that way?" and he said "what way" and I said "well, I hoped you might have been nicer and a bit more supportive about the whole thing". Now, he then did his "I want to go home" thing ( ) which drives me crazy..so I said, well, good luck to you 'cause I'm not going home...so he asked for the tickets so he could sell them and get money for transportation home. I gave them to him and kept walking.

He followed and said something like "what is the problem" and I repeated that he could have been nicer about it and he said "I was being perfectly fine" so I said, ok, I thought you hadn't been (note, I was totally calm) and he said "well, I was just thinking 'what the heck is she doing? she's completely screwing this up and being incompetant'" (or something like that that made it perfectly clear that he HADN'T been being nice AT ALL). Anyway, long story even longer, we went to the hot dog place (where I got a veggie dog!) and ultimately h apologized and all was fine. On the way home he apologized again and said something like "I'm such a mean person" and I said "no you're not" and he said "well, I was really mean to you" and I said "listen, you're a nice person who did a mean thing. There's a big difference" ('cause there is!).

Anyway, Sunday we went to the gym and then went into school so we could both do homework. I had a bad attitude towards doing it because I'm sick of school! but we had a fine time and got some stuff done and then came home and relaxed. We picked up food on the way home so we settled in to watch the oscars. We had a little contest on picking the winners and I won!

Awesome, awesome news today...h called earlier to tell me that he'd been offered THE summer job he wanted! I think it was really weighing on his mind and he's completely psyched! He told me that while the woman was offering him the job he thought "I can't wait to tell Sage about this" which just made me feel so good. He also told me how much my support means to him! I'm really glad he feels that way and shares it with me...I feel like I'm making up for not always being there for him.

So, that's my news. Lots of good "give and take" in my corner of the world.

Sage


Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 245
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 245
Dear Sage
have just started reading your posts - this one is really helpful and I will be going back through them all as time allows and I hate reading on the computer.

My experience of ducks is that one female gets two males! maybe british ducks are different. Swans mate for life.

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 166
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 166
Hi Sage,

New to this BB. Just wanted to say that I found this site in Jan and have been reading lots of your posts. You seem to have struggled with a lot of issues in your M that I am now dealing with: negative thinking, insecurity constant need for reassurance. I just wanted to say thanks as reading your posts have really helped me a lot and given me hope.

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,304
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,304
Hi Sage. I remembered how good your posts were in the past and now found this one today. Thanks for putting so much effort into this post. It is helpful! Glad you and your H are doing so well.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,885
sage Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,885
Wow! 3 new faces! Thanks so much for the visits, folks. I've been trying to get out and about more on the BB (with low success!) so I'm glad to hear that folks are getting benefit from my trip down memory lane.

*************
I was supposed to have school last night but an impending snow storm made me wary of making the trip. I emailed my teacher that I wasn't coming and then felt mildly concerned for the rest of the night about "skipping"! Turns out that he had cancelled class but had emailed the WRONG class to tell them that. DUH!!!

Anyway, the unexpectedly free night combined with h's great job news of the day called for a celebration. We went to a great restaurant near our house (literally, 2 minutes away) and had great drinks and appetizers. h seemed really excited about his new summer job AND about us. He talked a lot about stuff we're going to do during the summer, etc. We also talked a little about some larger scale trips -- England or Germany or Italy, etc. I like it!

He was really positively reinforcing about my support of him. I'm glad he can feel it.

We had great food and a very relaxing time. We went to bed early and woke up to about 8 more inches of snow. Sigh. I slept in and then we shoveled. The drive in to work was fine and today has been mellow. Glad for that.

I took a vacation day for tomorrow because I need new tires (a little late but maybe it will signal the end of all this snow if I actually prep for it!). h and I are going to a play tomorrow night so after getting the tires and maybe doing some shopping, I'll go into town to meet him. I plan to not spend one second thinking about work.

Sage


Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11

Moderated by  Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard