Time for a new thread. Here's the old one: No R Talks???
Sitch in a nutshell: H & I friends for 22 years Together for 9 (common law) Two boys each (blended family) S#1 24, S#2 21, S#3 19, and S#4 16
H withdrew (mentally, emotionally & physically) about 2 years ago--very depressed and irritable--lot's of the signs of a classic MLC. H begins an EA with co-worker 11/02 EA becomes PA early 1/03 I confront, H says he thinks he wants out of R. We separate, but begin to reconcile.
Individual C and MC and what I have picked up reading DB and reading the stories of other DBers here has been a lot of help.
H & I have agreed on a timeframe for him to come home, but lots of work ahead.
Here's an update. We are continuing to go to MC and IC. I went on anti-depressants and Xanax (as needed). Most of the time, H is positive but still gets into some major negative funky stuff.
After our MC sessions we usually go have coffee and talk for awhile. Over the last few weeks, we have made a lot of progress and have settled on H will move back home before school starts for our youngest.
We have decided that we need to do more day-trip activities. That seems to really meet several different goals: 1. getting away from the teenagers for awhile 2. playing & having fun 3. time to talk about our R and do some problem-solving in between all the fun stuff
H complained to MC about a couple of areas where we have some continuous trouble: 1. he's very lineal in his thinking and takes a LONG time to get anything done 2. I'm more end result oriented and get a bit manic about finishing projects 3. I complain that he drives too fast 4. He complains that I drive too slow
All of these things were examples of us "not being compatable". MC told him that if he thinks he'll find someone that he's 100% compatable with, he may as well go live on a mountain because that's just not realistic. She told him that she though that in most ways, we were very compatable and that we should look at those ways that we DON'T mesh as challenges to come up with some creative problem-solving. {{{Thank you MC for pointing out that the glass is HALF-FULL, not HALF-EMPTY!!}}}
H was very negative after the MC session, though. He actually seems sometimes to be trying to talk me OUT of our R. He says things like: 1. We're learning all of this stuff, but he might not be able to change and I will outgrow him 2. He doesn't see me being happy with him for the next 20-30 years 3. People should expect to be happy almost all the time if they are living their lives the way they want to 4. If you aren't happy almost all the time, you should chuck your current life and make a new life for yourself 5. He isn't looking forward to the part about moving home that involves the stress of living with the kids. He says he feels like he's held hostage to the never-ending trauma-drama of living with teenagers.
I tried not to show that I was getting reactive to what he was saying. I reasurred him in many ways that I did love him even if there were areas that I would love to see improved between us to make our relationship stronger and better for both of us. I told him that I could totally relate to his frustrations about the stress of living with teenagers--but we are very nearly at the point where we can see them launched into their own adult lives. I told him that I wasn't worried about living with him in the "empty nest" afterward and that I thought we'd have a lot of fun and be a lot more relaxed. SIGH.....It's hard enough to keep my own PMA...without H having all this angst. He tells me that his C is trying to help him find ways to halt the negative obsessing, but so far he hasn't found anything that works.
The next day, and since he has been more positive, but I did ask him to please go get the Effexor that the Dr. prescribed him many months ago.
Tonight I was working away on a project and suddenly busted out laughing. I remembered that the same tension about driving styles has been something my mother and step-father have been arguing about for the many years. They really do argue, driving down the road arguing about how he drives too fast or she drives too slow. They even joke about the way they argue about their driving. In fact, it's a legendary on-going fight.
Apparently, my H never heard the family joke about my folks and their driving fights. To think that all of this time, if I showed any discomfort over my H's driving, he would get really ticked. Apparently, all of this time, he's been thinking to himself that this was one of the ways that we are "not right for each other".
When he called from work tonight, I told him what I had been thinking about and some of the funny stories about my folks driving down the road arguing. He was pretty amazed by that and thought it was pretty funny.
I guess my folks have been "incompatible" for almost 30 years and enjoying it.
Quote: 1. We're learning all of this stuff, but he might not be able to change and I will outgrow him 2. He doesn't see me being happy with him for the next 20-30 years 3. People should expect to be happy almost all the time if they are living their lives the way they want to 4. If you aren't happy almost all the time, you should chuck your current life and make a new life for yourself 5. He isn't looking forward to the part about moving home that involves the stress of living with the kids. He says he feels like he's held hostage to the never-ending trauma-drama of living with teenagers.
Talitsa -- hey. Sounds like a big part of h's current concerns are around the idea that you will never be happy with him and/or that a change is required on his part that he may not be able to achieve (seems like change is also required on your part but he appears more confident that you'll be able to do it).
Sounds a lot like my h.
Also that any sign of unhappiness or stress is a sign that life just isn't working as is and it should be discarded.
Ditto.
So...what do ya think? How to undo this stuff? I guess the first part is partly achieved by him working on his self-esteem (I am good enough to please this woman). Have you stepped up your appreciation of the things that he IS doing? I think that's really helped me/us.
As for the second...I wonder if it's not some inability to handle negative feelings (I'm stressed, I'm upset, I'm unhappy) in a constructive way...kind of "I don't have the power to change the way that I feel/the things that are making me feel this way, so I better find a place that makes me feel better". A toughie. Does your h. feel in control of himself/his actions/his decisions? Not sure what I mean there....does he state what he wants to you in your R?
I love that you guys are working so well together at this.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
For the most part, I don't think I can fix his self-esteem, but I am very glad that he's in therapy for himself. I am trying to show more appreciation, but I know I could be doing a lot better with that.
Things already have changed, in that at least he's sharing these doubts with me so I can respond. I guess I get a bit scared because the stuff he thinks about when he gets in a funk is all the same crap that led to him having an A and planning to leave me in the first place.
When he was in pre-A mode, I couldn't figure out why he was so withdrawn, grumpy, depressed, unhappy. He wouldn't talk to me so I could help to diffuse some of his assumptions. I would try to get him to tell me what was going on, but he wouldn't talk.
Just between us, don't you think that whole "any sign of unhappiness or stress is a sign that life just isn't working as is and it should be discarded" thinking is just plain immature????
I told H that I didn't have expectations of being happy all the time. In a long-term relationship, there will be times of sorrow, times of frustration and anger, times of basic contentment, and times of joy. I believe that there are also times in a M that you fall in and out of love. The commitment part means that you are there for ALL of it with that person. That's having a full and rich life, enit?
Honestly, I don't get where he thinks I was so unsatisfied with him in the first place. I was never really bitchy or critical of him. I (now) know I could have done a better job of giving him a lot of reassurance, but I was always oh-so-careful about his hypersensitivities that I always took care to be gentle.
Here's an example: He hasn't gotten the anti-depressants he was prescribed months ago and the prescription has expired. He also needs glasses and needs to make an appointment to get an eye exam and follow through.
I told him that I worried about him and that I was afraid that he would put things off (he's been complaining about needing glasses for at least 3 years). I said that I wasn't his mommy but I cared about his health and well being enough to nag him a bit about it.
Then I kind of messed up and teased him, saying that his ability to take procrastination to the level of an art form drove me nuts. We both laughed a bit about his ability to procrastinate. Now, I didn't think anything of my comment at the time, but apparently, he thought enough about it to mention it to his therapist (!!!???)
He comes back saying that the therapist told him that my frustration with his ability to procrastinate didn't mean I didn't LIKE him, just that I worried about him. DUH!
Sage, is your H really as insecure as my H? Holy, sometimes I think there is something at his core that doesn't accept that he is capable of being LOVED, despite all evidence to the contrary. I don't know that there are enough reassurances or validations or expressions of appreciation that I could do to even touch that level of insecurity!
So far, the things I'm hearing about his therapist give me hope that she can help him. I am praying she can, because while he's twisting around in doubt and insecurity, I keep telling him that he's my best friend, that I happen to be in love with, and happen to still have the hots for....but somehow, he just can't seem to believe or accept that.
Things are going fairly smooth. I am somewhat avoiding my H right now because he seems to be going through a phase where he's rather confused (about himself, he says, not about our R).
I'm trying to detach from all of his stuff, and just stay calm. I'm acting as if he will come out of his weirdness anyday now and I will have my H back, somewhat the way he used to be before he weirded-out.
When I do talk to him and he starts up some negative, insecure obsessive thing, I just simply say:
"Don't worry, we're going to be ok", instead of getting all anxious and caught up into his stuff.
It seems so backward somehow, that he went squirly, cheated on me, left home, and now I have to do all of this reassurance and comforting instead of the other way around. It seems to be pretty common though, as I've seen people describe the same kind of thing over and over on these boards.
Oh well, I'm not gonna let it get to me. I know H is regretful and very sorry about hurting me, but wounded himself pretty badly in the process too and is trying to recover.
I've been reading a book called Emotional Intelligence (it's been out for awhile, but I am just now reading it).
BTW, Shiny, it references Gottman stuff in the section about using emotional intelligence in marraige.
I'm getting some good information about the importance of keeping up my PMA--no matter what H says or does--and not just for DBing. Optimists catch fewer colds and live longer too!
