Thanks for the messages of support

[Billie]

I just got back to read the replies to my first message (wish I knew how you put that link thing in but anyway...) titled "I don't know if I belong here". Even though you are strangers to me it means a lot that you have taken the time to share some kind words with me. I will attempt to give some more info. as requested in some of your replies. H is boring to me, basically because he is a bum. Sits around watching TV, or reading comics (ugh!, I thought he would've outgrown that after high school) or magazines etc. He has lost touch with most of his old friends because he's boring and lazy. We don't go out together, I can't remember the last time, probably our last anniversary last summer. He is a stay at home dad, quit working at his own business to do that (which I am grateful for, saves a ton on daycare) but frankly, he's not very good at it. He doesn't take the kids for walks, doesn't read to them, doesn't draw or paint or "do" anything with them. He's not great with housework either, the kitchen is OK, and once a month or so he'll do a quick pick up of the family room and maybe vaccuum it, but otherwise, forget it. We haven't slept together since I was pregnant with our third child. He snores like a freight train, so when I needed the sleep when our son was a newborn it was for the best, but now he never even wants to sleep with me. Not that we don't have sex but he just won't stay the night with me I mean. Overall I guess I see more bad than good in our marriage and feel like I'd be better off leaving now, than waiting until the kids are grown then finding myself alone with no prospects left. At least if I leave now I think I have a better chance of finding Mr. Right and having another chance at a happy marriage. I am scared to leave, but excited at the possibilities. I know I could stay and survive, but I don't know that anything I do can change him into the man I want him to be. I just want to be happy. I realize that my happiness will come from within me, not solely from H or OM, but it certainly would help if I wasn't always longing for something I can't give myself. Sigh, I guess I'd better pick up the book Divorce Remedy, who knows, I can't knock it 'til I read it right.
Billie

[iffer]

Hi honey...here's the link to your first thread...it's kinda different than the other forum here, if you reply to your own thread it will bump it up and keep it going, so it's easier for people to follow, but for now I'll link ya up baby!! Then just keep posting to this one and everyone will follow. Don't worry, btdt on mine a couple of times at first

Not sure if I belong here

I'm so sorry to hear all of that, I had no idea, but then again it's easy to assume that everyone else is happy, unless they tell you about their marriage.

Divorce Remedy (DR) will help you understand some myths certainly about love, and help you look for the small positives...I just hope it will help in your reverse sitch. Frankly what I might recommend after you read it, esp if you are not sure it will help, is a phone consult with Michele's office. Hard for me to say what to do about H when I am used to dealing with the opposite. LOL.

He definately needs to change some behaviours...but only he can do that. Gonna toss out some questions that I hope others will have some input on, so don't act on any of it till we get more advice, k?

What does everyone think about Billie writing her H a letter of what she wants/needs from him? I think that it is outlined on how to do it in DR hon...keep emotions and such out of it, just state the facts and keep it brief as possible. How many times have you approached these problems with H, and how did it go if/when you did?

this is a tough one, but have you looked within yourself to see if there was anything that you feel you did to contribute to anything? Have you asked him to go out and do things...have you gone ahead and made plans for the both of you and told him that you need to be more active in your R? Have you gave that man a road map of your feelings and what you want...so he can attempt to follow it anyways? Have you truly, openly, honestly communicated your wants and needs to him?

It is true that our spouses tend to take us for granted sometimes...they are comfortable in their life and ways and don't think beyond to see that maybe their partner isn't. They ignore the little signs that there is unhappiness brewing, and them BAM...bomb drops. Your H is a very lucky man that you took the step to come here and will be attempting to see what you can do, despite you being the WAS...and you are already, even though you havn't left the home. You can definately be a WAS within the walls of your own home. They just don't know it, or if they sense it, lack the skills to deal with it and might shut you out even more, thinking that it is just a passing phase.

DR is a really good read, especially for the spouse left behind and like I said could shed some light. If you do talk to your H and he recognizes that he needs some work, or wants to try to save the M, a book that you might want to recommend to him to read is Divorce Busting...it is more of an analytical look at what we expect from a M and how we view love in todays society...looking for the perfect love that just doesn't exist, kwim?

Either way, it is definately true that in order to change an M, both spouses have changes to make within theirselves...it's a matter of if they both want to.

Anyone? Advice for Billie?

(((hugs honey)))
Love ya
iffer

[joyful]

I for one know how hard a sahm can be. Its exhausting and I for one don't care what I do, with whom or whatever. I am too tired. I know you work but at home its overwhelming and you never get away from your job. Its there sitting looking you in the face.

My opinion, your H is depressed....maybe. Maybe he doesn't know what to do himself. He is at home where you get away from it. So by not getting things done around the home, not going out, is a good sign of him just being depressed.

I would ask him if he is happy. If he is overwhelmed or would like a break.

That is my opinion only. If he states he is unhappy.... have a plan sorta of how you both can compromise so you both can work on the marriage and get to being happy again. How is the communication between you both?

[rmp]

Hi Billie,
It was very hard for me to post to you. My W left almost 11 months ago. She felt she would find more happiness and a better life without me. So far this hasn't happened, she even got so depressed she attempted suicide a while back.

I didn't know how unhappy she was. My C told me that she was a very indirect communicator where I am very direct. I never was good at picking up on hints, especialy from women so I didn't know what she was trying to tell me. In her mind she worked on our marriage for many years and I didn't. Sorry my mind reading skills arn't what they should be so I never did the right things to work out the problems. At least in her mind, 4 months before she left we went to a C and that is when I realized how unhappy she was. I made imediate and drastic changes right then. She saw the changes but her mind was already made up, she said it was too little too late. C told me nothing I could have done would have made a differance at that point because emotionally she was already gone. I also had an anger problem that was conected to a sleep disorder. It also caused me to snore very loud. I am terrified of hospitals and surgery but went under the knife to correct the problem. I would have and still would do anything to be the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with.

Make sure your H really knows how unhappy you are. A letter might be good. When my W told me she was probably going to leave me I finaly woke up. I never caught on th the hints she was dropping. I think telling your H if things don't change you are going to leave is what you need to do, please just don't wait until your mind is already made up to tell him, like my W did.

I'm sure in your mind you have been telling him for a long time you where unhappy. But in reality are you telling him in a way he truly understands. I strongly urge you to at least go to a library and look at Michele's book The Divorce Remedy. Page 39, The walkaway-Wife syndrome. About 3/4 of the way down the page and continuing onto the next page it tells you what happens. I read this and was floored. It was like Michele was watching my life and wrote it down. I read this section to W and she agreed that it was exactly what happened. Unfortunatly her mind was already made up. Please consider finding a good C and trying to get your H to go with you before you walk. I don't think you realy want to end the marriage, or you wouldn't be here. I know you are certian it must improve for you to stay in it. If you do find a C make sure he/she is very pro marriage and will do everything possible to help the two of you repair your marriage.

Please don't take anything I have said as being criticle of you. I think I truly understand my W's need to leave. I just wish she would have communicated he unhappiness to me in a way I would have understood sooner. I still think there is a chance we will get back together some day. But by her having already walked away it will take a lot longer for things to turn around because she has a mind set that will be hard for her to change.

I really appriciate you being here. It gives me the chance to communicate with someone on the other side of this equation and may help me with my sitch. I have no problem showing my emotions or talking about my sitch with anyone now,( I was never one to show emotions before this happened). I have made a couple good friends here and will give my e mail or even phone number to anyone who needs to vent. I probably cant realy help and recomend using a professional for help, but I do understand what you are going through and will listen. A couple people I have met here have exchanged numbers with me and it is nice to have someone you can call and just vent to that doesn't just tell you to dump the other person and move on. I also strongly recomend calling Michele's office for a phone consult. I have talked with Arnold Woodruf and it is a great help. It's expensive, but I think investing in marriage is the best investment you can make.

If you are going to make calls like this I recomend getting a phone card so the charges don't show up on phone bill. Don't need anything else to cause friction at this point.

I wish you only the best and will offer any help I can.

Bob

[iffer]

Bob, you are wonderful Thanks for remembering where she can look in DR for some help. And the phone card idea...awesome. Definately don't want to stir the pot right now anymore...just need solutions.

Billie, have you been to counselling? If you do go, and H knows about it, heck, he might scoff at first, but then grow to realize that you are serious and you really have some marriage issues you want to work out. Unless of course that he decides from the get to go with you..that would be cool. Might be good to go separately as well, to the same one. At least call Michele's office to find out if there are any good SBT therapists in the area...you are lucky you live where you do, as there are many more to chose from.

Luck as always hon.
(((hugs)))
iffer

[karusso]

bump

[Done]

Billie,
Also, please remember that men, by nature, are fixers (all men, not just your H). We have this really odd nature about us; we think that we can fix things, no matter how impossible they seem. Communication is the key here, so if you do decide to try to save your M (and make it far better than it ever was or is now), you will need to find a new wellspring of patience.

This board is a very good place for that, as well as for emotional support and ideas to try.

About counselling: Men are also proud. We don't easily come around to the idea that discussing our problems with others, even others whose job it is to do this. Men need a little re-wiring for that to happen. A letter just might give you the capability to help him re-wire. He's in a similar situation that I'm in (though I freelance and am currently building a list of clients, I'm still not bringing in as much money as my W--which hurts me because I was raised to be the breadwinner. I suspect your H is similarly feeling the same things.

Right now, you see moving on as the best possible way to feel good about you and be happy. Unfortunately, happiness comes from within, not from your H, your kids, or an OM. For any change to happen, it has to happen with you. No matter what you do, your H will be in your life for decades at a minimum--you can divorce your H, but you cannot D him from being your children's father, and that means a relationship with him. That's one of the great fantasies (and fallacies) of divorce. By walking, you don't end a relationship, you only change it, and usually it's a change for the worse.

As Bob said by telling you his W's story, you won't find happiness out there. You need to start working, not walking.

I hope this doesn't seem like I'm coming down hard on you; I'm not. I'm coming down hard on walking from a covenant, on the side of children and family and mature relationships that come from hardships that you are now encountering.

I'm praying for you and your family.

Don

[Chrissa]

Billie, I definitely agree with the opinion that he is depressed. If you do not think you can get him to a counselor for himself, start going to one on your own and enlist their help. Maybe you can pursuade him to go if he thinks it is to help you.

I was the one that sat around all the time, moping, watching TV, not getting anything done. I was depressed. But I was also waiting for my H to want to do things with me, to suggest things to do, to get the ball rolling. For various reasons (including H being angry all the time), I felt like when I said I wanted to do anything, I was shot down. In reality, I did not voice my opinion very often, very rarely asked to do things together, and what I felt was a sharp rejection was just an offhanded comment from H. If he would just buy tickets for that concert, grab my hand and drag me off to dinner, book the cruise and hand me the tickets...

But instead of reading my mind, H got his own life, went out with his friends who were a lot more interesting, left me behind. So I got more depressed. So our problems intensified. SO he finally walked out.

Do you really want to save your marriage? Take the responsibility to get H moving. And do not take No for an answer.

[iffer]

Thanks for a man's POV Don, great insight there.

Here I am invading Billie's thread again. LOL.

Billie, I know you think it's hopeless, and yes, you may be forced to do what you think is inevitable...remember though, the advice I gave you tonight was just that. Advice. When we spoke on the phone, I could hear a lot of things in your voice...and see a total WAW in you.

If you are determined, nothing that is said to you will change your mind...and remember...only HE can make himself happy, just as only YOU can for yourself. And YOU cannot control how he will feel/act when you do have your talk. Don't worry obsessively about it. Nothing will be fixed or even changed if you don't do what you need to do, and you know you have my support no matter what.

Glad you are going to pick up the book anyways...it will have skills for you to work on as well that will help you either in or out of your R with your H. And don't worry about seeing change...if he wants you to know he has, he will learn to prove it to you. Hopefully he will gain some skills to help him along the way...just as we all are.

Please take care and keep in touch.
(((hugs)))
iffer
PS, what i wanted to say on the phone but couldn't, is that my H does NOT know about DBing or this site. I am careful to erase the history in a way that he is not suspicious..heh heh. So some convo will be limited, as I can't get him suspicious at all either...still too early into the new R for me to spill. If I ever do

[joyful]

I was thinking why not give your Husband the book on DR or DB? It could spark his interest some. Just lay it out on the table maybe.