Hello everyone. I've been reading through the forums here for a week or two and first want to say thank you. More than likely if you're reading this, i have gained some knowledge, wisdom or peace from reading your Sitch's and comments.
I could go on all day, but I will try to keep this to just the essentials...
Together for 10. Married for 7. I'm 32, W 29. S-7 S-6 D-3
I medically retired from the Military Nov of 2016. I didn't want to get out but due to some injuries I had to. W had previously basically been the rock and backbone of the family for that time ( 7 years). She has older parents and wanted to have kids young, also there is some medical things that pushed us that way. I did 2 years of deployments, various training that took me away from family as well, and pretty much was working at least 60 hours a week. I started being in charge of things which was great, but it meant longer work days and sometime weekends.
So after retiring, I told my wife that it was her time. I collect retirement/disability so its her turn to pursue what she wants to do.She had previously displayed being disappointed with her self. She would look at her friends back home and see them starting careers and graduating and would say " I've done nothing. Im X years old and I haven't done anything withmyself".
I would almost always reply with something like "yeah but you have a family. And with the service, we don't exactly live the normal life style. I am beyond words proud and thankful that you've been here". Both of us never wanted out kids to be raised via daycare.
So a few months went by and she had went back to her old job which she held for about a year, while I was transitioning out of the military. She is excellent at what she does, and has the greatest work ethic I've ever seen. She didn't really show any interest in finishing her degree (she was half way there) or looking into a career in the few areas she was interested in. I personally believe she was afraid of failing, she is very hard on herself.
About 6 months of her working and me being the stay at home parent went by. I Was an absolute wreck. I was very depressed and boy did it show. I do have some mental health diagnosis, PTSD, Anxiety and Traumatic Injuries from getting blown up, which has various residual effects. I can and do function normally every day and meeting me, you wouldn't think any of that.
Anyways, I moped around the house. I had gone from being top guy, in charge, had people looking up to me and was well known and respected within my military profession. Now all of a sudden I felt like a dirtbag. I thought and felt like I had let my family down, the military down and my country down... by having these injuries forcing me out. I unknowingly made my wife literally feel bad for leaving the house and going to work at times!!!
I wasn't any type of dude somebody would want to be with. I was lost. I became incredibly insecure and very clingly. Which is NOT ME. I'm normally the glass half full guy, confident and borderline cocky! MY wife had previously had some mental health issues (depression) and she was overall very supportive. However, with how I was feeling, I let it spread to her and now looking back, I made it very hard for her I think. She would tell me that only you can pull yourself out of the hole, but I can show you the light sort of thing. She was supportive and helpull, however at that time, she would have to been attached at the hip to me, for me to not be clingy… I thought i was a piece of sh!t, so I figured others including her saw me that way.
So again we're about 6 months into this of me being out of the Army and my wife takes a trip with our middle S for a family surprise b-day party. 2 or 3 days. I mention this because I think this was her breaking point. While at the b-day get together, her brother said something like "well...this is it (as he looked around the room)" He does not care for his career and has wanted to move and change careers for a few years. My W replied "are you kidding? Look what you have have here. Your family is here, they're all healthy and they all love you". Well it seems (maybe im wrong?) she came back home WITH HIS MENTALITY oddly enough.
1 or 2 nights after coming home, she dropped it. ILY...BINILWY...
I did all the wrong things for about a month before i found some podcasts, books and started seeing my own C. I was needy, clingy, cried, depressed, shocked... Everything you're not supposed to do.
She said she wanted to just take a break. From everything. She wanted to go to the woods and just hit pause for a few days. Completely understandable to me. She said she was so tired of worrying about everything. Things like "I dont want to go shopping, or get my nails down everynow and then because she feels bad for me and I don't get out" Worrying about money, She said "I know this sounds terrible, but I want a break from being a mom (She is an outstanding mother). She also said that she was thinking... "who would I be if we got divorced"---I think this goes back to her 7 years of being the stay at home parent, etc...
I supported and encouraged her to do this, go camping for yourself, whatever, but I was being clingy and depressed etc while doing so.
She said she needed space. She said she was looking at places but that was financially not possible (remember this is about 6 months ago). She also said she needed space and needed to do this or figure this out on her own.
I started sleeping in our kids room. Tried my best to give her space all while being under the same roof. It ended up being very awkward. Neither of us really knew how to do that.
She started doing some things for herself, camping, meeting with friends etc... I did the same as I realized I wasn't a great person to be around. so without knowing it I lightly started GAL.
All this being said, she continued to initiate contact with me. We used to watch a movie or play a board game together at night, but now we ended up sitting on our porch for hours just talking at night after she got home from work. And they were great talks. Hardly any MR talks though.
One night about a month after BD I snooped. There was a guy at work that I was suspect about. I didnt expect anything physical, but i thought maybe EA. Well I went thru her phone and saw her text with said guy.. but his contact name was a females name. My stomach immediately dropped. I looked at the very first message and she said something like " i hang on your every word". Then i skimmed down and she was talking to him about her mom (same things we had been talking about). I didnt want to look anymore, so hurt i didnt want to ind anything else and felt like throwing up. I immediately woke her up and confronted her. For the first minute she did say a word. Then she started yellling and couldnt believe I went thru her phone. I asked her if she had sex with him and she got very upset. W: "how dare you say that". I let the room and that was that.
Next day we had a calm conversation about it after she text me and said we needed to talk. I explained that i was sorry i did it, but explained my train of thought. She said that she can totally see how it looks bad. When I asked why in the world the contact name would be changed she said... I changed it because I didnt want you to freak out. During my initial months after retiring when I was first depressed and insecure, I was getting upset because there was a guy from her work that would hit on her and say borderline things to her. I got very upset because she didnt say anything to him, she didnt go along with it she would just laugh it off. She said she didnt want things to be awkward at work. So thats why she changed this guys contact name.
About the "hang on your every word"... She said that I had become so negative and depressed. And he was very upbeat, positive, carefree and would give her good advice to go about her life and be happier and more positive. Even positive advice for me.
A month or so later she came home from work and we did our normal routine of going on the porch to have a drink and b.s. talk... and she said very calmly that she wanted a divorce... She had said it before during fights but this was different. I remained calm but she could tell I was upset. I just said are you sure? W said yes and that was about it. I did text her early the next morning and said something like " We were in love in the past, I think we can do it again. We have gone thru a tough year and we have never really resolved any issues, just swept them under the rug. I want to go to MC because we have kids and I want to tell them that we tried everything. If you still want D after that then I wont stand in your way. I never got a reply to that message.
That was that... a month roles by, no MR talk...and thanksgiving comes around. By this time its about 4 months after BD. She never really got her "space" but things between us were okay. We talked everynight for hours, were intimate a few times. A few times we embraced very tightly, like she missed me. We even had a very passionate kiss one night, like two kids in highschool. I put on and cooked a great meal (something I’ve never done) and at the end of the night she was upset. She looked very down and said and when I asked her if she was okay, she said she was just thinking about things and the future. She then told me that her and a girlfriend would be looking for a place after new years.
No major blowups and maybe on 2 SHORT MR talks. I told her that she had 2 options...
1.start a new life without me
or
2. start a new life with me bc our old loveless marriage is dead. she replied with "never without you" <---- totally throws me off
another thing during the short MR talks... She complemented me on my changes, phsyical, haircut, daily attitude and parenting but later said those changes are just for me. <---- No idea
"It took me getting papers for you to change??? I didnt know how to reply to this but I said "Yeah. I always knew when we had issues that we needed to talk about them, or improve communication but I/we swept it under the rug. I thought you'd always be there so I figured we would figure it out and went back to focusing on my career or what not. All she said was "thought you'd always be here...ouch" One day we hiked a mountain together and had a great day. On the way home she held my hand while I was driving. We had a very short MR talk… she basically said “I dont ever want to lose THIS (as she squeezed my hand)> Your my best friend and know eachother more than anyone and theres nobody else I want to do THIS (hikes, camping, etc…) She kept saying I dont know. She said she just needs to figure herself out. She cannot commit to working on the marriage right now, because she has to figure out whatever it is. She couldnt put a name on whatever IT is or needed to be solved.
Christmas roles around and with her work schedule (works afternoon - nights 5 days a week) I put on a great Christmas for the kids. At this point she had also opened up her own bank account and we shopped independently. She was however still contributing financially to our house and bills. A few days before new years she was telling me that she was very upset that she was probably going to have to work both christmas eve and new years eve and was mad she wasnt going to be able to spend it with the kids. We went inside to look at the calendar and I put my arm around her as I saw that she was off those days!! I said look… your off!!! Im so happy for you!!! She then turned to me and buried her head into my chest and hugged me and was crying. This lasted a few minutes and a she said “I’m so sorry” a few times. This was one of the times we were intimate ( W initiated), and I asked if she wanted me to stay in the room with her and she said yes. We cuddled in bed like we used to and I was so happy… The following morning we were fine, joking around had a good morning, but everything was back to normal.
One night while outside sharing a cigarette she came and sat next to me and kind of side hugged me and put her head on my arm. She said something like “ your the only one I want to hang out and play cards with (something we did or years after the kids went to bed). Then she said something like “don’t you want to be happy? This isnt fair to you” I didnt really know what she meant but I said yes, of course. I want to be happy with you. One of the reasons i get so frustrated with myself is that I’ve found so many resources, books, podcasts etc… and i recognized everything I/we’ve been doing thats toxic. I believe 100% in my heart that if you committed to the marriage, we would have an outstanding relationship. Yeah we’ll have our ups and downs, but I believe that.
After new years she went and looked at a few places one day. Before she left she was visibly upset, sad. Like she was sad that she was about to look at houses. When she came back a few hours later I didnt even ask her how it went. I went on with my day and acted like I didnt care. A few hours later she brought it up in kind of a snide manner../ "Do you even care how it went today, were you planning on asking?" She ended up telling me that they didnt like any of the places.
2 days later she text me and said "Hey tell the boys that I'm going to bring them to get donuts then were gonna look at a house before school". I didn't see her before she left that morning. She came back about an hour later with some donuts and put them on the counter. I said hey, how'd it go. She said "I'm going to go sign a lease"...But she was crying when she said it and was sad again. That was it and she left. A few nights later she told me her girlfriend was bothering her, asking when she was going to move in. She said she already paid for it, what does it matter. She seemed unsure and would get sad looking whenever the topic came up, which was rare. She didnt end up staying there for about a week. That same night we had a few drinks and talked about our childhood memories, laughed, had a great time. Towards the end of the night we came back inside after sharing a cigarette and sat back down on the couch. I felt her and could see her out of the corner of my eye looking at me while I was looking at the TV for a few seconds…. Then she turns and sits right on my lap facing me...and just hugs me. She was crying almost hysterically, I’ve never heard her like that. She was pulling me very tight and I hugged back but not as much as her. This lasted for about 12 MINUTES!!! It was the most emotional physical experience I’ve ever had, She then said she wanted to go to bed, so I helped her upstairs and we went to bed in our separate rooms.
This pretty much brings us to today. Tomorrow will be 2 weeks since she started sleeping over there. She has almost none of her things there, she said she’s leaving most of it here because I have the kids more than she does. She has very little money and is going to barely squeek by every month financially. She has been coming over though, most mornings and see’s the boys off to school. Then she has about 3 hours before she needs to get ready for work, which we’ve just been doing the normal thing. Watching a movie, playing with our D. At first it was like she is only sleeping there, and we spent almost all day at our house hanging as a family. She brings things up so nonchalantly. How small the house is and has no yard (we have good acre here to ourselves, quiet, we both love this house), frustration with her girlfried, how she has nothing over there, mattresses and just about everything else. In my head im like “well you choose to do this to our family ssoo….?? Im not sure what to say when she says that.
If you sat and read my hole story I want to thank you in advance. I can’t believe some of the people on here who take time out of their day to lend a helping hand. I would like to continue this whichever way this goes, because I don’t wish this pain on my worst enemy.
My biggest question/worry is how I handle every day or interaction. Im so sick and tired and emotionally drained from analyzing every word thats said and wondering if I did this or that wrong, said the right thing. I have already grown from this, but I’d be an absolute fool to not try my damn hardest to save my family. Thank you
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Kilo, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I don't have time to write much now, but it seems there are some strange things about your situation. Your wife moved out, yet she comes to spend time with your family for hours per day. What's the advantage of spending money to live separately if she only sleeps there and spends the rest of the time at home? That doesn't make sense!
There are several approaches you could take. You could always let this situation continue for a while and follow the DB book to let her see how you're changing and doing fine on your own. Or you could seek a legal separation or some kind of enforceable separation agreement that puts in place financial and custody arrangements. Or you could always stop spending time with her and tell her you won't continue to spend time together like normal until she comes home and can commit to the marriage. I'm sure you'll get other opinions here too.
It's always nice to meet a veteran. I wasn't in the military but I worked on many US government contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan between 2004 - 2013. I lived in Baghdad between 2006 - 2008 and worked closely with US troops. My husband is Iraqi and we have a whole other set of issues which is now leading to a divorce that I'd do anything to avoid. I can totally see how you'd have PTSD and other issues stemming from your service and getting blown up. You can't go through all that and be disaffected. Plus going from war zone to staying at home with kids is like night-and-day. I struggle with that every day.
I hope this will be a short-lived situation for you and your wife. I hope it can be resolved so that she'll come home.
I agree with NicoleR, it's an unusual situation in how much emotion your W shows you at times, but because of those texts you saw (which confirm at minimum an EA), I have to believe that it's just cake eating and you would likely get the most value out of not allowing her to do it.
The natural instinct is to take what you can get, be nice and maybe she will remember how much she loves you and want to come back. But in reality, allowing them to still lean on you when they want to, means that you are helping them transition (proving support) while they leave you.
It seems you are doing well in not begging, pleading, etc., but I think you would be served well to decide that you will not be her bestie to cushion the impact of her choices, and telling her so.
With that said, in my 2 years here, your W is more affectionate and friendly towards you than anyone else I've seen, which makes be believe (not know) that a big part of her wants to be with you.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Nicole- first, thank you for taking the time to read my sitch. I'd also like to just say thank you for any and all work you have done. I have unfortunately lost civilian contract counterparts of our K9 world, which just shines the light on everyone there and their importance. So I thank you!
I agree with your train of thought... Why would someone chose to take a massive hit financially, yet still spend a large amount of time at the 'marital home'??? It makes me think that her actions are simply not rational, along with her mindset.
C- thanks for not sugar coating it. She did later say she was sorry for turning to someone else and shutting me out (although personally I understood why she would be tempted to stray). You also pinpointed one of/if not the biggest problem...
What does a LBS gain in being a nice, cordial, friendly side at this point???
And here is where my balance between GAL, doing dark and being the best version of me collide.... I worry that if I put on the "I'm happy with out you front"... That it will just enable a spouse who's on the fence. A WAS who doesn't want to hurt the other, but may think " well they seem to be doing just fine since BD. .. So I'm okay to leave them.
I hope that made sense and thank you both. By commenting you've already given me help and strength.
She has been coming over though, most mornings and see’s the boys off to school. Then she has about 3 hours before she needs to get ready for work, which we’ve just been doing the normal thing. Watching a movie, playing with our D. At first it was like she is only sleeping there, and we spent almost all day at our house hanging as a family.
So what is your long term plan here? To me, this feels like a tremendous amount of cake eating. She can have whatever relationship with you that she wants with no repercussions. She is sleeping at a different house and you are letting her come and go as she pleases as if this is 'normal'??
How do you value yourself if this is what you are willing to accept? I believe that your relationship is important and that your marriage is extremely valuable. That said, letting her do as she wants is not the way to save it. Think about it this way - if she can do anything she wants, what incentive is there to make a change? What I mean is that if you let her come over and play with the kids and hang out as friends whenever she wants to, what reason does she have to move you back into 'husband' territory? Shes already getting exactly what she wants!
Not to mention, there has already been one EA. Who knows what else she is doing. Im not suggesting that you ask her as she would lie to you anyway. My point is that likely, given this arrangement, there is someone else or there will be someone else at some point. I feel like you are willing to be her safety net as she learns to walk on her own - I havent seen many (any?) successful reconciliations where the man allows himself to be treated like a doormat.
So, how about next time, you have other things to do in the morning when she comes over? Or what about the parenting schedule -- are the kids going over to her place at night, or is she just being a 'daytime mom'?
Originally Posted By: Kilo
My biggest question/worry is how I handle every day or interaction. Im so sick and tired and emotionally drained from analyzing every word thats said and wondering if I did this or that wrong, said the right thing.
You can see the physical, mental, and emotional stress that this is putting you under. So why dont you put a stop to it? How painful it must be to sit with the person you love day in and day out knowing that they are just going to leave you again at the end of the day.
So it's time to break your co-dependency. She left the house - it is yours now. You dont HAVE to entertain her every morning. In fact, I think youd be much better making yourself more scarce and finding your own things to do - work on the house, take up some hobbies, get a part time job, volunteer at the kids school....whatever. Find something that you can be passionate about and do it.
Originally Posted By: Kilo
I have already grown from this, but I’d be an absolute fool to not try my damn hardest to save my family.
Of course. Heres an important tip - "Work smarter, not harder."
Sometimes that means that killing yourself to say you "tried hard" isnt good for anyone or your relationship. Right now, there isnt anything you can do 'for' her. Time, patience, and a deep self-reflection and personal growth are the best things for your marriage.
My biggest question/worry is how I handle every day or interaction. Im so sick and tired and emotionally drained from analyzing every word thats said and wondering if I did this or that wrong, said the right thing. I have already grown from this, but I’d be an absolute fool to not try my damn hardest to save my family.
Hey Kilo! Bravo Zulu for you doing your best to keep your family together. Navy here.
In all honesty, you are doing what you should be doing. The golden rule is this: she is on her own road and while it may not have enough room for you to travel with her, its her road. And she must travel it herself.
You need to do what's best for you. And that's all you can do. First and foremost, take care of yourself. Your life. Your health. Your emotional well being.
Remember the butterfly adage? If a butterfly lands in your hand and you squeeze it, what happens? It kills it, right? Now, if you keep your hand open its free to go...it may or may not choose to alight back in your hand, but that's its own choosing. I can tell you from experience (not with my ex, but with a recent one I just got out of) that if you wrap your hand around it, there is absolutely no chance. Now, I'm not giving you that "if you love someone set them free, if they come back to you it was meant to be" advice, because that's a load of horse crap. The honest truth is that most times they don't. Fact.
But you are here. And with this, you will better be able to grow and become the best you can - not for her, but YOU and the kids. None of this is about her anymore. You and only you.
I am a year out from my divorce now. Life couldn't be better. I just closed on my house and removed her as much as I can from every bit of my life, with the exception of the kids. That I can't change. But to me, she is gone.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
