Horrible day...I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown. Hello I'm going through the hell of a waw...says she doesn't love me wants out (late 7/11). I buy divorce busting within a few days of her confession, we go to therapy, I try to do some of Michele's suggestions and my w's reasonable requests...recovery(?) late 9/11 (I stop reading divorce busting). Following w's suggestions everyday. Find out w is still unhappy and wants out 1/12. I panic start reading divorce busting again. Attempt 180 experiments 2/12...w seems more withdrawn then ever. This week says she wants out again...no attraction to me, doesn't love me. Still trying 180 but I don't feel like I'm making any dent in her ice armor. Not sure what to do, I have 2 D's (one D 5 the other, almost 2). I can't imagine not seeing my blessed children every day. I can't imagine not being with my w every day. Still love her. Loosing hope. Please help?
I'm so sorry you are in this situation with your wife.
Let's start again, as if you never started before. Most everyone on this board understands the heartbreak and is here to help. We can give you support, and help you use Michele's materials to help you detect solutions for yourself. Many folks here can tell you what has and has not worked for them. So--we're here for you.
So...let's talk about a few things:
-her confession, did she confess anything other than she wants out and doesn't love you?
-what did you try? when you say a 180---what does that mean to YOU? (It might not mean the same thing to her, and it might mean, there isn't enough time by HER standards)
-what you focus on expands: what is GOOD between the two of you? OR--what USED TO BE good? How did you fall in love? How long have you been together? When did this change?
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Thanks for the kind words and advice. I was very brief with my initial post but my w was in the other room and I didn't want her to see me on this site.
"what did you try? when you say a 180---what does that mean to YOU? (It might not mean the same thing to her, and it might mean, there isn't enough time by HER standards)
-what you focus on expands: what is GOOD between the two of you? OR--what USED TO BE good? How did you fall in love? How long have you been together? When did this change?"
Those are great questions dbmod and I should be able to answer them below:
My W and I met at work and within about 1.5 yr of a pretty intense wonderful R got married (almost 9 yrs now). I did find out some great things about her during the first phase of our R: 1. She's smart. 2. Sexy 3. Great sex (except for oral...more on that below). 4. Beautiful (inside and outside) 5. We made each other laugh and had great fun together.
Some challenging things I found out during the first phase of the R: 1. Didn't really like the "future" in laws very much (big family, almost have there own culture, loud and obnoxious, I'm a geek who is not into sports at all, they were huge sports fans, very religious and I'm not). 2. Big sex drive difference between us (mine is high, her's is low)...this I've read (and seen) is common so I tried to not let it bother me. 3. She was not open with her emotions(I really had to dig to get any info about her emotional state). 4. Very pushy...her way or the highway. 5. Her family was structured as matriarchy (MIL clearly ran things). My family is very patrichial (which I still have difficulties checking my self from sliding into). I really wanted an egalatarian R. 6. This sounds silly but...she is huge country music fan, I could only stand a little bit of it...now I HATE IT! 7. Found out during engagment that her brother attempted sibling incest when she was in middle school. She felt that this detered her sex drive (and I'm guessing this really warped her perception about sex and intimacy...please chime in on this any pysch majors). Got married. Things were still great but of course, the passion was dying down which was normal and expected. About 1.5 yrs into M she flirted heavily with a coworker of mine (right in front of me) and this really destroyed all trust I had for her. She was not at all apologetic about this until months later (she said it was just a crush). Still have trust issues to this day not sure I far the "crush" went. Though for the most part I forgave her... Our first D is born and M really changes with new baby. Post partum depression hits her...we are both exhuasted and short tempered (very colicky baby). Still we perserver. M still on solid ground and we very much love each other. About 2 yr after baby is born I start to have really second thoughts about my W. Very sexually frustrated (the meds she was on really lowered W's libido). I'm thinking about having A but I do not. Family and M is too important to me. I love my W very much despite frustrations. I didn't mention this to my W until very recently. I'm assuming this was just a phase/adjustment/adaptation I had to go through as a H. Last summer she is fed up with me not helping around the house, not attracted to me any more (I've gained about 30 lb since first D was born), I'm too critical of her and her family, too political, not a christian, too demanding, too different. I write all this down as she is telling me this and I swore to her that I would work on all of these issues and I have (with some back sliding but I immediately reverse the trend if I notice it). We go to conseling and progress appears to be made. W tells me things are OK now (early Fall). I ask her how things are going about once a month, attempting not to be pushy (at this time I had read bout 1/2 of DB). We seem to have weathered a major gale but are still afloat and on course. Mid January this year, I'm shocked out of my mind to hear, even though I have made tremendsous progress she still is not attracted to me (it has been very hard for me to loose weight now that I'm older and the second D was born). I start working out in earnest. Attempt some 180s (I've stopped telling her that I love her, stopped texting her during the day, tried but I keep on failing to NOT hug and give her a kiss after work, stopped nagging for sex, tried to appear happy and content though I feel like I'm going insane). I'm trying to stay strong but I'm afraid things haven't reached there minimum yet. She has almost completely withdrawn from me...we still live together but no sex and hardly any affection. I'm really concerned that is has found somedbody else but she repeatedly deny this I'm very intently attempting to keep my self obsessed with her having an A. I hope this provides more detail. Thanks.
"but she repeatedly deny this I'm very intently attempting to keep my self obsessed with her having an A." Whoops that should say - I'm intently attempting NOT to keep obsessing about her having an A. Another thing that has me worried is that she has been hanging with her Mom a lot who just a year ago seperated from her second husband (and since her family tends to follow each other's tails I immediately was fearful for my marriage a year ago when I heard about the separation - perhaps I set my self up by being so anxious). I realize that I can't stop her from having an A or getting bad advice from her Mom...what I need to focus on is GAL and somehow keeping my anger, fear, and sadness in check (mindfullness meditation helps but it is so hard to do right now).
Horse did you read the 37 rules above??? Please do. I am sorry to say but right now she does not want a future with you. Stop worrying about her having an A. Keep working on yourself and keep posting. You need to do things that you like or always wanted to do. This is for you. Hang in there
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Hang in there horse. This divorce busting takes time. Follow the 37 rules and eventually acting as if will be more natural. She knows you well and worries you'll go back to your old ways. It's still too soon.
M 42 H 39 T10 (-2yrs separation) S8 D5 DD 7/30/11 (EA&PA) Reconciled 6/2013 Separation in works 1/2017
Thanks for the advice guys. Backsliding is surprisingly easy to do! But what worries me is w becomes obssessed with her decisions (she is somewhat ocd) so I'm afraid that no matter how ill advised her decision is she is so stubborn that she won't back down until after the ramifications hit (we have an $18k mistake in the garage - I forgot to mention her financial mistakes). So I think I have a very tough road ahead and I'm trying to memorize the 37 steps! Positive signs: w actually nagged me a few times (she hasn't done that in a while and according to Michelle this is a good sign). She mentioned she is unhappy again. I told her I understand and that we all feel unhappy sometimes...I was trying not to negate her feelings but empathize with her.
Found out during engagment that her brother attempted sibling incest when she was in middle school. She felt that this detered her sex drive (and I'm guessing this really warped her perception about sex and intimacy...please chime in on this any pysch majors).
I hate to be the one to tell you this but this is a horse of different color.
Sorry.
I only know from my own experience. My W was the victim of sibling perpetrated sexual abuse.
I am going to say something that may be hard for you to hear or believe BUT that you need to consider:
Children are not born with this.
It is put upon them by sexual predators. Her brother learned it from someone else. Who?
Who knows. Might be someone in her family.Might not be.
She is not going to be open with you about the extent of what happened or the details because there is a great deal of shame. They feel somehow responsible for the crime.
I encourage you to read up on this topic because it will help you to understand what is happening to your W and help you to detach from this.
Next big thing you need to understand and this a biggie:
YOU DIDN'T BREAK HER AND YOU CAN'T FIX HER.
The mechanism they used to cope with the brutal reality of what was happening to them was actually healthy as child to cope with it. It doesn't work as an adult.
The severity of how this manifests in adult life can vary and is a function of the severity of the abuse and the abuser.
You will find some commonality with victims. Low self esteem. Victim stance. disassociation <---- look that up. Coping with drugs and/or alcohol is common.
This experience that they carry around never goes away it is always waiting there. It can only get better if they decide to deal with the demon.
SHE has to decide to do that Horse.
I am not an expert or a medical professional so what I tell you is what I learned through my own experience.
The best advice I can give you is to detach. The used to be a link on here to a website on detachment on the livestrong website. I am not sure we are allowed to post it here.
DB Mod?
But it is very helpful and check the resource threads at the top of this forum.
My thread is in MLC forum called "The salvation within" you can see what I went through when I got here 2 years ago by linking back to earlier threads my first thread was "W has PTSD" or something like that. Search PTSD you'll find it.
You have to be strong for your children and your W. What she is going through I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
Keep posting Horse.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
