Divorcebusting.com Forums Active Threads This Week

Oh the strange mirroring going on. Similarities and opposites. My W moved herself out of our home. First to a campground and tent for weeks and then to a 5th wheel camper she chose and I paid for from our joint accounts. I did not ask her to. I simply said it is incredibly disrespectful to bring OM, just online mind you, into my HOME. And I am not comfortable with it. She just messaged me one day saying I'm staying at the campground now. She came back during daytimes.

She has been a SAHM and homeschooling since kids, but prior she was a active duty military officer. After kids she stayed in the military reserves until her 20 year mark, where she has an impressive resume. She has a Masters degree.

Now? No job, but trying side gigs dog walking, online editor for hire, uber eats, selling crafts at festivals, etc... almost no income. She signed up for and seems focused on a second Masters degree in a subject with no income potential...

Whatlee, I would suggest after 30 years of wife and mother, you DO have skills. Just not as easy to define on a resume. I the words of someone else, think about your "talent stack." What are the things you are good at? What are the talents that were required as wife and mother? How can you combine them into a talent stack that is useful in different ways or jobs?

I've had to evaluate potential hires for my team in the past. More than their resume listings to be qualified, I looked for how well their attitude and work ethic would fit into my team. I suggest you present yourself that way to places you might like to work. The technical qualifications can often be filled in later. Getting someone who works well with a particular workplace team is a higher priority. You can do it. Don't discount your lifetime skills.

g

Good Morning What

Glad to read that your boys are doing well.

It’s interesting how family alters as they leave the nest. Kids move away, find jobs, make lives, etc. Your boys are further dispersed than my children. Still, I find it takes a purposeful effort to schedule visits/trips to see them, and/or have them all around the table at special times. And the logistics of family gatherings is going to get more difficult with grandkids. I figure I’ll be doing more of the travelling then.



I hear you. For a good while I too was so ready for my situation to just be over.

In time, focus shifts. Life and hobbies and such. And with that shift a present day history/past started to accumulate. Days, weeks, months. More and more time, and a new history is written.

We write that history, that immutable past, in the present. With every moment.

It takes purposeful effort to be in the moment. To GAL, to explore beyond one’s “old” comfortable. In time, one will and does accumulate their past. It is always happening. And one’s past does help define and steer one towards their future.

It takes time and effort. Once we accumulate more and more “newer and better” history, it is easier and easier to be in the present moment. Which writes that new and better past.

It is difficult. Grief and depression do not foster feelings or enthusiasm for getting out there and living and loving life. Be gentle on yourself, yet do push to do things. Each investment in to yourself - like a trip to the beach - accumulates. And all those deposits keep earning interest.

Keeping to a good thought out path and acting in such a manner that serves you and who you are or wish to be, keeps stead forward progress. Basically, more positive investments/interest and less negative. All within your control: thoughts and actions. Which can and does influence one’s emotions and therefore acceptance.

Looking back, it’s funny how “over” I am. And believe me, I didn’t feel it when slogging through it. I can see how I got here, and remember how occluded it was at the time. That’s life, one’s past is the path travelled. One just has to turn and they can see it laid out. Like stones laid down, each step, each turn, each avoiding/overcoming of obstacles, each hill and valley. The future is not so.

In my metaphorical imagination my path is smooth gray stones. Each one mostly uniform with rounded corners, though not circular. Like footprints, the stones are staggered and the path is two stones wide. My present location, my path is in a forest. There is plenty of space with little undergrowth, and the path curves around the large trees. The sun beams through the canopy above and browns and greens are lit up in the mottled yellow patchwork of light.

Looking forward, there are trees and beauty in all directions. There is plenty of room around all the trees and the ground is soft pleasant dirt/grass. I can easily continue placing stones in any direction it seems. I’ve no particular obstacles I need to go around or avoid, and no particular destination or direction I place the next stone.

My future, the next stone, is mostly an extension of what has come before. I’ve accumulated enough of my new and better path, that even staring backwards, I have difficultly seeing/feeling the old and painful times. Present day decisions are made without any involvement of BD and my “old” situation.

I’m still divorced, and single, and XW is still with OM, and she has basically nothing to do with the kids, and I’m over my situation.

In my situation, nothing has changed, and everything has. That’s the gift of acceptance.

Do go to the beach, within the next four days. You don’t have to swim, if it is too cold. Just go and walk in the sand. Purposeful effort. Craft your wonderful present and past. Take control. Lay down a stone with purpose. It will shift your heading and future.

D

BloonsTD. Fun stuff! I do like tower defence games.

Yes please.

It’s helpful to link to “Next Thread” and to link back to “Previous Thread” as well.

Thanks

And more…. I am familiar with what is attempted by some of the smartest people in the world on human behavior manipulation, with minimal ethics. These platforms are used not just by their owners, but by state and non-state actors for their own purposes. If you have read “The Art of Seduction” and see how behaviors can be involuntarily triggered… just imagine that on an industrial scale designed by experts and targeted using AI/Neural Network pattern recognition. Yeah, …. Keeping my kids to limited use and showing them how to recognize it’s addictive properties.



Well, I’ve done snooping, though not for a while now. I tried to heed the advice of if you can handle it, the intel collection can be valuable. I forget, was that Puppy or? Indicators and warnings, situational awareness, and it ended up primarily for me a “temp check” she was unaware of. It helped refocus ME away from HER. I also saw some of her confessions of internal turmoil, helping with empathy.


I do understand. I’m old school. I was around when the meme "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog" came about in 1993. At the time messing around as a side project at work installing Trumpet Winsock to get office computers connected to the internet. Used Gopher, Usenet, and email mostly because the WWW was just begining. And I’m not even IT, there just wasn’t anyone else to do it. Oh wow, do I date myself!


<laughs> True, and I do need people to poke at me and set me to reality. You see, the people I work with could certainly do such an operation if resources were given. I have a pretty good idea of just what it would take. She believed OM had access to the video from cameras around town and could watch her from them. Yes, I personally know that is possible with the right software, databases, and intrusion knowledge. But in reality for a given OM to have skills, resources, money, and connections? Yeah, don’t think so.


The analogy made me laugh, .. and think how apt it is. I needed the chuckle.

11p, all finally in bed and S12 came to lay beside me restless. I did get time to game with him for an hour this evening. Strategies to clear a BloonsTD6 map. Time to go.

g

do i link this thread with a new thread?

It's great to have a forum where their are people who are dealing with or have dealt with what you are going through, cause unless people have been through it or are going through it, they don't understand and u get the eye roll.

Thanks for the encouragement. I am sorry u are in this situation as well. It's been almost 2 yrs since I was forced out. To begin with he was extremely mean, even come at me 1 time when he thought I had done something to his phone, thank God my son was there to stop him. We have seen each other a few times in those 2 yrs, he is different each time. The last time we were together he said he wasn't ready for us to be back together, that he had some stuff to work through and he was working on his relationship with God. I asked him not to ghost me like he had done in the past and here we are, he is ghosting me😂
I understand what u say abt the ups and downs, when we were living together it was kind of a joke between my friends and I, I would say, "let me go in and see which H I'm gonna get today." It was almost like an adventure, to b honest I didn't mind it cause at least I was with him, could hear his voice and see his face.

I pray your situation changes quickly and you have peace.

Good Morning MG


You are most welcome.


Or both. It could be person or persons in a position of authority. Parent(s) are usually the most likely. Uncles, Aunts, Grandparents, as well as teachers, coaches, priests/ministers, and such. Someone trusted and charged with the youngster’s care. A trust they abuse and twist.

The trauma(s) can be a singular or few events, or a long time (think years) of neglect, ignoring, abandonment, etc. Or both. And even more. My XW’s trauma(s), as much as I’ve been able to deduce, is horrible and twisted. An uncle’s actions when she was 7 and 13, known and covered up by aunt, grandparents, and parents. Coupled with a childhood of not being allowed to have anyone over to the house, or to go hardly ever go out. Basically no friends. So incredible different than how I was raised.

Children are very ego-centric; the world revolves around them. As such, they internalize these trauma(s), and they blame themselves. For to their immature minds, it must be their fault. Any questions they have would be to the very authority figure who inflicted it. So, no clarity or answers for the youngster, just their self-crafted story of “why”. Their young minds unable to grasp such troubling concepts, push it all down, bury it, deny it, elsewise their psyche would shatter.



My advice would be to allow H to discuss as he feels. When he feels safe to explore. Do not push for any answers. When/if he brings stuff up, just validate his feelings is all. No other probing. Validating, will let H realize someone hears him, and he might say more as he uncovers more.

However, the LBS usually gets painted as the bad guy in the MLCer’s narrative. The crisis person projects upon and blames their spouse, unable to realize the true cause of their feelings.

Interestingly, affairs play a part in the horrible path. The MLCer crafts justifications to stray from their spouse. Remember, this is an emotional train wreck the crisis person is embroiled in. The affair partner is usually an affair down, a much lesser person than the spouse they are tossing aside. The AP is cast into role of parent or long ago authority figure, all quite unknowingly to the MLCer by the way. They use the affair partner. The AP is a band-aid, a symptom, of their deep trauma(s). The MLCer uses their AP as parent to rebel against and grow up from.

Of course, such a path is not the ideal healthy way to heal. Far from it. However, these crisis folks are stunted and not emotionally healthy, so they grasp whatever straws they can. This course brings about a myriad of other problems. As well as shame, regret, and so on. Which is even more stuff to run from. The abyss pulls them in, engulfs them, pretty quickly. It takes a long while to crawl out of such. And some simply never do.


Because it’s not about you.

You cannot help him, for you didn’t break him.

MLCers are dragged back to their trauma(s). To that time. To that age. They behave like it. They see the world like it.

My XW lives like she was when she was around 18. When pressured, she reverts to a girl of 13. And with more pressure, she becomes a child of age 7. The very ages of her traumas. By the way, she was thrown out of her house and her parents’ lives when she turned 18. (Such a messed up family.)

I’ve seen her (witnessed by friend and son) alter, time travel, to the different persons / personalities. And it is the most spookiest thing I’ve ever seen.

MLCers are their teenage self. Your H, feels likely like his 16 year old self. Intellectually he knows you. Yet, emotionally, he is 16. A time when he was not married, had no kids, no job, none of the responsibilities, etc. This is how and why a MLCer can seem/be so uncaring and lack empathy. They simply do not feel it.

Speaking of feelings. Depression is ever present in a crisis. The MLCer desperately tries to run from their ceaseless depression, torment, and pain. A 16 year old H, remember not feeling or empathizing with you and his present married life, looks for some relief. Spending money is a pretty common running behaviour. Imagine a depressed teen with a huge bank account. Not likely to look inward as much as they would just spend and have good times to drowned the demons.

Things is, no matter how far one goes, how fast one runs, there they are. One cannot outrun themselves.

In the dark stillness of night, when lying in bed, his demons will come out to play.

Depression and lack of sleep shows and takes its toll. MLCer’s age, suffer aliments, and become less healthy. The very opposite of what they are trying to achieve with their futile attempts in reliving their youth.


Good. Do not take it personally.

Unfortunately, MLCer’s do not see themselves as needing help. To them, they are finally living their authentic life.

Of course, they are running from everything and everyone, even themselves.

Suggesting counselling or therapy or such usually is met with anger. You can’t even lead this horse to water, never mind getting it to drink. Giving H to God. Time and space. I know, that’s a hard pill to swallow, to feel so powerless to help.


I think you have seen/see things well and with clarity. Hopefully, I’ve filled in some more blanks for you.

The big thing, you my dear are not crazy. The wild behaviours, the weird time travel, H’s moods, his ping ponging about, flipping personalities on a dime, all true!

Most folks have no clue about this stuff. Society thinks midlife crisis as a comedy - that Hollywood version. You know different. You’ve seen behind the curtain. Most people don’t and will not believe you. Even vehemently denying the existence of MLC.

Shrug, oh well. Until I experienced bomb drop and the horrific after math, I had absolutely no idea of this world. I was blissfully unaware.

The human mind is both incredibly strong and incredibly fragile.

My foray into this was BD. Then W, married 26 years, together 31, stood up after Thanksgiving diner and our full bellies, in front of my parents, our four kids, and son’s GF, and tossed this grenade upon the table:

“DnJ, I can’t live with you anymore. You get the house, the cars, and the kids. Unless you don’t want them, then I guess I’ll have to take them.”

She threw her own children away like they were old clothes!

Complete bedlam erupted! May Dad and one son got super angry. One son couldn’t breathe. My daughter was crying. I was just stunned.

W and I talked in the living room for a bit. She revealed her boyfriend. Told me I was old and she was not (I was 49 at the time, she was 46.) Her reasoning for her life change: the furnace blows cold air on her; my work truck burns too much gas while she was trying to save the planet (my/our personal car was/is a Prius); she needs sunlight, rainy days feel like death to her; etc.

Dumbfounded is understatement of my and the family members’ reaction. No one saw this coming. Heck, her and I sat side by side that very afternoon while we played cards. All nine of us squished around the table. Her and I together, pressed thigh to thigh. The Thanksgiving Day outdoor games and activities likewise enjoyed together. Then, kaboom!

She left that night. 10:00pm, three hours after bomb drop, she walked down the dark 1400 foot driveway to the awaiting OM. Over the next few days she moved out.

OM is my neighbour. He and her live 3/4 mile south of me.

W pushed for a divorce. We were legally separated in two months and divorce ten months later.

She’s still with him. She still treats her now grown up kids as used clothes. She’s a very lost soul.

I understand and empathize with you. I’ve found peace and contentment, forgiven XW, forgiven myself, and lead/raised my children as a single Dad for the last seven years. My kids are doing awesome by the way. Lots of open honest discussions over the years. I offer what I can, and walk with folks through their sorrow and pain.


DB, at first, is highly counterintuitive. It will feel wrong.

Divorce busting is about taking rational well thought out actions and less emotional reactions.

The idea of smart or not, best or not, good or bad, is difficult. No one can see all ends. You do the best you can. Listen to the various suggestions of posters, therapists, family, friends, whomever, and do the best you can. And modify as you learn more. Grow and evolve.

That being said, my opinion, it’s too soon for vacation togetherness. After all, H is living in a separate house. He is actively and purposefully making space. Give it to him. No pressure.

When I first read your story, my thought was you should have a friend or other family member help you with travel to and from your cancer appointments. H is/has fired you as wife (or mostly fired). Let him feel the loss and consequences of his choices. Not in a mean or vindictive way, just let him lay in the bed he made. Besides, MLCers have the attention span of a gnat. Anything important, ensure you have a plan that doesn’t require H, as he is likely to flake out.

Take measures based upon your intellect, your reason. Yes, it will often go against your feelings. For a while anyhow. To me, it appears you are on the “right” path. Keep moving forward.


I’d not purposefully stir the pot. Leave that to fate, karma, the universe, whatever/whomever. No need to paint a target upon yourself.

To be clear, don’t walk around on eggshells, or be a doormat! No way! You live and love your life. Enforce necessary boundaries. If H chooses to not be with you, fine. If H chooses to be with you, fine. Either way, you will be, and are, fine.


Something to remember:

Believe nothing they say, and only half of what they do.

H is emotionally driven. His in the moment words and most actions will come from his emotional state. Look to long term constant demonstrated behaviours. For a while, likely a good while, H is going to be a mess. Going to be all over the place. Questions of why he said something, or why he did something, is basically - because he felt like it.

Sometimes things are positive, sometimes things are negative with H, his words, and his behaviours/actions. Don’t read into it too much. Just a few data points so far.

MLCers move slow. Glacially slow. And they really don’t experience time the same anymore. Months, years, will pass with hardly a notice from them. Like Rip Van Winkle they miss out on so much. Kids grow up and are no longer the small children they left behind. MLCers are lost and trapped in their past.

H is on his journey. A journey you, thankfully, were not invited to.

D

Just wanted to reach out for some encouragement for you. I am so sorry you find yourself here as well. my husband is still in mlc and still has an ap in the shadows but I do see some hope some days. Trust me withdrawal was almost harder than the replay but at least you know they are making some movement.

My husband also had a hard childhood and has been the worst monster I have seen. the only thing he hasn't done is beat me. And to be honest I think the only reason he hasn't is because he is in law enforcement and knows he would loose his job which is about the only thing he has constantly cared about. A main reason for this is that it is the main thing his horrible toxic mother is proud of him for.

Keep up the work but trust me from someone whose husband has moved back after being gone for 13 months and is still in mlc, IT IS WAY HARDER WITH HIM COMING HOME THAN I COULD HAVE EVER IMAGiND. I ups and downs and lack of peace in the home is killing. make sure you take lots of time for you.

Hey G....

Be careful over in T2's old place....there may still be a Feral Cat or two running around in there...: )


I have always seen snooping as...

Don't ask questions that you don't want the answer to....



IF you can handle what you read, and understand that anyone can be anything that they want to be on Social Media, and that not everything that's out there, is "real"...

She is trying to create this "perfect" life now, and what is portrayed is mostly that.

IF it bothers you, then silence the feed for 30 days and see where you are then....


And LMAO at the idea of OM following her around...

He may, or he may not be doing that...

Of course, she may be picking up signals in her dental work too....

WMLC...all crazy, all the time....


With everything else going on...

Try to find some time for just you today....

Mine is in all top secret social media mode, she scrubbed everything recently that had me in it so she could get a clean slate with OM4, I still have her login and see her communication with him via Instagram, and much like the last guy she's trying to replicate small interactions with him like she did with me, it's quite sad to see, but I use it as fuel to realize that once is a mistake but repeating the behaviour now with om4 om3 etc. It's given me a clear understanding that she has some sort of personality disorder. It's almost as if social media is the gateway drug to wayward wives living out their fantasies, instagram is literally tailored and the algorithm feeds their emotional desires and feeds it back to them ad nauseum. If anything it has become the greatest enabler of egotistical narcissistic behaviour, and people don't realize they are being brainwashed. It's become a playground for lost people
It's given people an escape from reality and from responsibility and made them feel young and carefree again.

But be careful how much you choose to see on it regarding your WW. It can either become pain shopping or motivation to move on and forego any form of reconciliation. I'm using it personally to push myself to make the move and fortify my decisions

Reasons not to snoop or sometimes snooping finds you


https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2240726#Post2240726

W is sometimes not careful with what she thinks is communication with OM or sometimes doesn't realize what can be visible on social media. Last year she described this is how she "secretly" communicated with him by responding to anon social media posts. "Oh, G, this is just him protecting his family. His the most caring man in the world." What is this warped thinking?

Yesterday my detachment thrown for a while when in my FB feed appeared her comment of
"Take a cold shower? <LOL emoji><Halo emoji><kiss emoji><fire emoji>"
in response to a meme of "You are all I need to set my dirtiest fantasies in motion" by account Love and Lust.

D17 later, "What's wrong daddy? Did something bad happen?"
G, "Just something between me and your mother. I'm sorry for making you worry. YOU are fine and wonderful."

I'm not even sure if many of these things are real communication. They may be social media AI giving her feed what she reacts to. She believes OM follows her (or sends "his people" to) around town because she is too precious to him. Or flies drones over to visit her sometimes. I saw only birds flying by.

From T2's thread -

"Do you have the patience to wait
until the mud settles and the water is clear?
Can you remain unmoving
until the right action arises by itself?"
Lao Tsu

g

MrP,


I kind of get the feel for the shape of it, but ... it may help to define: What parts felt productive, to what end?


These feel like WAS reoccurring themes, especially after many years and perhaps complacency that comes with it. My W pointed out that although I would do things for the family, I would more rarely do things for her alone. Times when I would deliberately exclude everyone else. It seems all Ws compete in some way with their MIL. As far as money, my W says now I was always hard to talk to about it. From my perspective I almost never said no to any request. I just made it happen though she could see the stress it caused me. I think I should have said NO much more often.

Are they really root issues? Or just things more easily talked about or easily identified? Seized on justifications to walk away?


I considered then rejected MC because my W hasn’t ever really wanted to try since BD1. Well before I found MWD’s books and this forum, I recognized it takes two to be useful. That said, everything I read here shows that which MC you have and their approach makes a tremendous difference. I think my reference standard is MWD own thread here:


https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=71642

g

Inquire at local church. If they don’t run one they’d likely know of some.


By the way, time for a new thread.

Having a hard time finding a divorce group in my area. any suggestions on finding one?

Thanks for responding. I'm just so ready for this to be over, I'm wishing for withdrawal.😉 He did have a rough childhood, his mom had him when she was 17. She was very promiscuous until he was 10 and she met his step dad, his dad was in and out his whole life. He spent a lot of time with his grandparents and his uncle which were great people. He lost his uncle/best friend in 1997 and his grandfather in 1999. His dad never treated him like a son, he was more like a buddy. His dad passed in 2017 and left him nothing after promising him certain things that were special to him.😢 He's never dealt with anything he's been through and there may b more that I don't know abt.

As for me I'm still living in the camper, working 2 jobs he gives me no financial assistance. Hoping to find a better job this summer so I can afford to get out and just work 1 job. It's kinda hard to find a job that pays good when u don't really have any skills. I mean the last 30 yrs I've been a wife and mother, but I have some leads. There hasn't been anymore action as far as the "D" word is concerned, we're going on 8 months since papers were filed.

My boys are all doing great. The oldest is 30 and moved to Nebraska when all of this started happening. He doesn't have a relationship with his dad 😪 our middle child he's 25 and is in North Carolina working and the youngest he's 22 lives in Auburn(WAR EAGLE).

I don't really have any hobbies, however I love sports.
Hopefully I will b going to the beach a lot this summer.

I hope you've had a great day.

First, how do I thank you for the detailed response? This forum is nothing short of amazing. Sincerely grateful.

H bought a house and moved out minimal items - his closet and bureaus are still mostly full. H didn't take much summer clothes but has stopped in for a handful of summer clothes in the last week. It hurts every time I see him grab more - it's like he's moving out more and more and a reminder that he's not ready to move back home. Other than clothes, most of his belongings are still at home - he didn't take much more than necessities, our framed wedding picture, pictures of the family/kids.

When you say, "A person in crisis is driven by long ago, unrealized, unrecognized, unreconciled, trauma(s) which were inflicted upon their young self by a person in a position of authority.", could this be a very controlling and particular parent who dictated his decisions instead of considering his opinion? Or would it be more of an absent parent who didn't play ball with him because they were working? Recently, he mentioned that he attempted to commit suicide at 16 (I met him at 17) but I don't know what drove the attempt. Thankfully, he didn't. Should I try to probe to learn the reason? H's story to his family (back in Oct) was that he's D because he won't be controlled anymore. H won't be a 'yes man' any more.

When you say, "The crisis person is in such pain, is so desperate for relief. And desperate folks do desperate things. So they run.", I am being logical and can't make sense of the running. We've held each other's hands and gotten through all struggles together. What is the reason for not letting me help? Not trusting in me to help? I'm not taking it personally, although I did at one point. Rather, I'm trying to understand how to let someone (even if its not me) help him. H is so depressed and alone.

I've read comments like the one you share: Replay and running are one and the same. The MLCer is replaying their life. They need to. They need to go back and grow up from when they were emotionally stunted. You’ll likely see, or have likely seen, time travel. The MLCer becomes, is, their younger self. I just can't apply this thinking because since Nov, he is sooo depressed. Doesn't go anywhere. Man of few words. Keeps to himself. But has started to drink (not excessively but he never drank so he's drinking which is a change) and continues to smoke pot and started to use nicotine pouches to relieve stress. If he went back to 16 (attempt to end life), it would make sense that he's drinking, using pot (yes, I know it's legal in many states), behaving like a teenager. I remember him having a 11:00 curfew until he was 21 and HATED it. Often got angry at parents, but obliged. H wanted to stay in dorm with me but was required to go home every night. H was 17, 18, 19 then but still coming home for 11 resentfully. Could he be trying to relive those years without the curfew? And, that's why H would come home at 3 or 4 am in Oct? H LOVES his mom who passed 6 years ago next week. I would be surprised if any trauma is related to mom based on how he loves and misses her. Thoughts?

H doesn't call me names. H doesn't mistreat me unless I include abandonment. H is loving, soft spoken, caring...just doesn't say much. Oddly, since Jan, he's begun to reach out to the kids - sometimes with odd things. H didn't wish them a HNY either. But, he got a tattoo and sent a pic of it to them today - kids didn't know he was getting one. On the other hand, I knew he was getting one to honor his mom but didn't reach out to me today at all, and that includes no pic.

Love the lighthouse story - really resonates! Like I say, I don't always know how to apply knowledge learned. For instance, is me asking H to take a vacation with me smart? Is me 'letting' him take me to cancer appts smart? And, why is he the perfect husband on cancer days? Why does he NEED to take me to appts? "Let H feel the loss of you and the relationship. He needs to." This makes me think that having a family member take me to cancer appts would be wiser. Not letting him in the house would be wiser. Yet, none of that feels right...

In my situation, what are some examples that I can use to 'stir the pot' as I've read about?

Lastly, I've initiated R talks with lots of caution and he doesn't seem opposed, but doesn't embrace a scheduled conversation. Just yesterday on our way to cancer appt, I mentioned that he asked for space in Sept and that most people need 3 to 4 weeks; not 3 to 4 years of space ((I know that to not always be the case but go with it). He chuckled at the 3 to 4 years part and agreed not that long. Then I played along and counted how many months it's been since Sept as if I wasn't keenly aware that it's been 7 months. Cautiously, I then said, at what point do we talk again and determine if we should go in opposite directions or commit to our relationship? He nodded with no words. After waiting a bit, I said, "I feel like if I wait for you, you'll never approach me." H corrected me with a soft voice and said he will. I asked him if he was scared to talk or scared of me. H said no. I thanked him and asked if this conversation was making him uncomfortable. H said: "no, conversation is fine. " I then asked if he felt like I have been pressuring him. Again, he said, no. Based on yesterday, I was led to think that he's grateful that I put into words what he may be thinking and that he's looking for assurance that he can turn to me. How do you read this?

Hello What

Sorry for a delay in responding to your post. My best friend was out for a visit and I was unplugged for a few days.

The Midlife Crisis forum is less active than the forum For Newcomers. However, this forum is more for the MLC situations, which are pretty darn slow. (My XW will be coming up on seven years post BD and she is still exhibiting major running behaviours.)

A new poster, MamaG, just joined on For Newcomers. Her H is exhibiting crisis behaviours. You might want to check out her thread. Even offer some encouragement and advice for her.

As for MLC stages, the post replay stages of depression and withdrawal are deep and dark. The MLCer pulls away from everything and everyone. Lots of brooding and self blaming.

To me, your experiences with H only withdrawling from you, sounds like replay. H is presently on his portion of flight when he ignores you. And like a boomerang, in a while he likely will circle back reinitiating some level of contact again.

I do think H is dipping into depression and withdrawal somewhat, and then running back into replay. As odd as it is, replay/running feels safer for him. He doesn’t have your knowledge and logic about the situation, and can only amble along at his pace and his direction. Whatever that may be.

Remember, H is emotionally driven. His decisions and behaviours stem from his emotional side rather than logic or reason. It’s hard to make sense of such nonsensical behaviour. Even H doesn’t have solid reasons for what he is doing, he is more reacting to how he feels at a given moment.

Please don’t fret over what you did or didn’t do, or worry about if you prolonged his crisis. H is broken. You didn’t break him, so you cannot fix him.

H needs to heal and grow up from when he was emotional hurt and stunted all those years ago. And he is, unfortunately, an ill-equipped man for such an undertaking. Not to mention he is running from diggin into it, and doesn’t really see or believe he is the source of his pain and torment.

The likely cause of H’s torment is an authority figure from his childhood, yet H is present day source and reinforcement of his own feelings. And that is a hard lesson to learn, especially for those souls so very lost in crisis.

Time and space my dear. Give H lots of each.

How about you. Are you living the trailer? Or have you moved somewhere? Has the divorce proceeding stalled or is H still pushing them along? How are your finances? H providing his share, if applicable?

How is work? or retirement?

How are the kids? How old are they?

What hobbies you into? Any plans for gardening this summer? Travel?

Just curious is all. You know, filling in some of the blanks.

Hope you’re having a great day.

D

Hello MG

Very good summary. You sound quite balanced and grounded. Well done! Good for you. You’ve definitely been getting a life and detaching to get where you presently are.

A question:


Did H buy a house? Or a rental? Did he move his stuff out?


I’ll see if I can shed any light or share some insight on your particular questions.


Short answer, in my opinion, yes.

You touch on MLC not being that Hollywood “get a new red sports car comedic version”.

Real MLC is a consuming decent in to the abyss. A person in crisis is driven by long ago, unrealized, unrecognized, unreconciled, trauma(s) which were inflicted upon their young self by a person in a position of authority. These traumas are significant and of such magnitude to be quite unable to be understood or accepted by such an emotionally/mentally immature child/teenager. As such, the trauma is buried, along with the young person’s self blame, guilt, shame, and so on; as they will, and do, blame themselves. This emotionally stunts them, not allowing the person to mature and grow as they should have.

As life progresses, various triggers occur, stirring up this long ago torment. And usually, the crisis person buries it again. Until mid life.

At mid life, pressures mount. Family and employment responsibilities, mortality, kids growing up and leaving the nest, aging parents, friends passing away, etc, all start to build. A triggering event occurs like has occurred before, yet at mid life the feelings cannot be ignored.

Long ago pains grow and pressure upon them. The person is entering their crisis, and is quite unaware of it. Literally, they have no conscious awareness of their past traumas, and they have no lexicon for how or why they feel as they do. And those feelings grow and grow.

MLC is emotionally driven. Some triggering event occurs, a wedding, birth of a child, a car accident, falling off a cliff, something that underscores their own mortality. They own aging and life’s sand slipping through the hour glass.

We all experience life transitions. And mid life transition is a difficult one to find peace and acceptance with. Likely the most difficulty of life’s transitions. Perfectly normal and healthy. Enter a person with past traumas and that transition goes right off the rails. That is a crisis.

That which is buried alive, will come back to haunt.

The MLCers is under constant and ceaseless torment. Unrecognized torment. They cannot figure it out. They cannot rationalize it. Yet, they feel and suffer it. Those long ago demons, which until midlife could be re-buried, no longer remain silent.

MLC is horrible! Absolutely horrible!

The crisis person is in such pain, is so desperate for relief. And desperate folks do desperate things. So they run.

They run from their ceaseless pain and torment. Lots spend money, do drugs, drink, have affairs, partake in illegal and illicit behaviours and activities, and so on. They are trying to recapture their youth, which they feel they’ve been rob of. Any and all activities to both mute what they are feeling, and to try to feel something. A person in crisis is very lost.

Replay and running are one and the same. The MLCer is replaying their life. They need to. They need to go back and grow up from when they were emotionally stunted. You’ll likely see, or have likely seen, time travel. The MLCer becomes, is, their younger self. A teenager. Much more brash and rebellious. And with a fat wallet. The most rebellious teenage kids is say a 10/10 on the scale, a MLCer is a 15.

A crisis is not rational. The MLCer makes emotional decisions. They are driven to. Their emotions are cranked to eleven, and they have no bandwidth for their spouse, kids, friends, or anyone.


Both!

Drop the rope. Or be dragged. That’s your choice.

Let go the rope and give him to God. Let the big guy work on H for a while.

You didn’t break H, therefore you cannot fix him.

As for time with H, invite him to some family events and such. Not all, some. And have no expectations.

H may, or may not attend. Doesn’t matter, keep your expectations dialled to zero. Unmet expectations lead to resentment. And resentment is like acid to love and relationship.

A MLCer has the attention span of a gnat. They will flake or forget appointment, or simply cannot handle some interaction and will run. Like New Years for example. (Hence, the replay stage, running behaviours.) Do not take it personally. This is H’s journey, and it will be at his speed. You go about your activities regardless of his attendance or not.


Still in replay.

Tattoos, driving around for hours, moving out, and such. H is looking for time and space. He needs it. And he will take it.

Give him lots of time and space. Focus on you! Live and love your life! Let H figure himself out, and run to catch up to you. You don’t sit around waiting.


Read the lighthouse story in the welcome thread. (Link here as well: Lighthouse Story)

As long as interactions are not disrespectful, and you want to see H, having him come and go can be helpful.

This is H’s journey. Nothing you do can speed it up. At best your efforts will be neutral, at worst it will stall him completely. Focusing on you and the kids is your best course.


Boundaries are premeditated actions you will take for disrespectful behaviour. Boundaries are for you. They are not some tool to entice behaviour modification, nor are boundaries punishment or a form retribution. Boundaries are for your emotion and mental health. Are actions you enact.

Let’s say H swears at you on the phone. Calls you disrecptpful and derogatory names. You state your boundary, and enforce it when he displays the unwanted behaviour.

“H, when you swear at me, and call me a b!tch, it really hurts me and is very disrespectful. When you do that, I am going to hang up the phone and not speak with you.”

And you enforce said boundary, rock solid!

Rebellious teenagers, especially 15 on a scale of 10, will test your boundaries. It’s normal when our teenagers do it, and so aggravating. One’s MLCer spouse is super aggravating. And they will smash against your boundary looking for weakness.

It’s part of growing up. They, teen or MLCer, needs to know, needs to believe, in your rock solid strength.


Do more of what works, and less of what doesn’t.

Not being glib here. Every situation is different, and yet similar. However, you are living it. There is no magic answers or bullets, though we can tailor advice to your individual situation the more we know about it.

In my opinion, with what you’ve shared, H is in crisis. And a crisis is a long journey.

The basic path is to give time and space. Let H feel the loss of you and the relationship. He needs to.

A person in crisis has so much feelings of torment, and they incorrectly blame their loving spouse. Realize, the MLCer cannot blame themselves. They truly cannot! Their psyche cannot handle it.

So, they look around their life and see their spouse. In their mixed up addled mind it must be the LBS’s fault. So, they dig and dredge up every corroborating deed and word and action of the past that you did to justify their position. They’ll also twist, fabricate, make up, outright lie, to further their narrative and justifications. They have to!

Like I said, MLC is horrible! The MLCer lies to themselves so very much.

So, with time and space. Other feelings will/can rise in the MLCer. Other feelings like guilt, shame, regret. Other feelings that are useful to your goal.

In time, and with some good fortune H may consider something like:

“Hmmm. MamaG has been bothering me for a long time. And I’m still unhappy. Hmmm. Perhaps it’s not her fault. Perhaps it’s me.”

Most MLCers run from such. The MLCer will bait and goad their LBS into arguments and such to resupply their justifications and narrative. Do not take the bait. Let go the rope.

With time, and fate, and karma, lots of intervention that have absolutely nothing to do with you, H might see it differently. And might look inward.

It’s possible. And I hope he does. And it’s well out of your hands.

Focus on you and your kids. Keep moving forward.


You cannot move “us” along.

You only control three things in life. Your thoughts, your actions, and your reactions.

You can move forward. You cannot move, nor force H to do so. In fact, he will fight against such.


Follow H’s lead in these type of things.

MLCers cannot handle pressure. Any pressure and they bolt. Pressure, trying to change them, forcing them, pushing the, right out the door.

Me suggestion. Get a card. A generic card. Not a lovey-dovey card for sure.

If H gives you a card, you’ll have one for him. If he lets the day go unrecognized, do the same.

It’s like relationship talks advice. Initiate no R-talks. Not for quite some time. H cannot handle the pressure. If H initiates an R-talk, proceed very very carefully. Let him do the talking.


That’s a lot of stuff to sift through and process. I do hope some resonates with you.

Have a great day.

D

Thank you! I've read through most of this. Starting to read the 1st chapter of the book now. Any direction on how to live day to day? Do I ask him why he avoids me and my texts? Do I stop pursuing him? H seems to be coming out of fog and showing interest. I'm I mis-reading the situation?

Do I need to move to a different forum? I joined this thread hoping to talk with people who have either already been through MLC w/ their spouse or people who are currently going through it. I posted a few days ago and have had no response. Just wondering if I'm not doing something right???? I know I don't post a lot basically only when I have questions.

Hello MamaG

Welcome to the boards.

I am sorry you find yourself in this situation. However, you have landed in a really good place here, IMHO. This site is full of kind compassionate folks with much hard earned wisdom.

Do you have a copy of Divorce Remedy by MWD? If not, do get one, and read it cover to cover. There is lots of really good information in there.

Do keep Divorce Remedy, Divorce Busting techniques and strategies, this site, and such, close to your chest. This information is for you, not H. H would very likely see this info and efforts as manipulation and trying to just get him back. (Here’s a quote from a wise poster, which I agree with:)


Below, is a copy of Cadet’s welcome thread for your reference. It has a bunch of links to a trove of useful information as well.

I look forward to conversing with you.

DnJ

- - - -

Welcome to the board.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/sb_the_divorce_remedy.htm


A few other books by MWD:

http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm


And Michele's articles.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm


Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.

When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.

Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.

Post on other people’s thread to give support.

Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

A couple other key points:
- H jumped off a cliff while on vacation in Aug 2021; fractured his hip and nearly didn't make it. H recovery was for 6 long months of doing very little and not getting off the couch much. This traumatized him.
- H and I have had a beautiful and happy marriage (or at least we thought). We built a home to our liking in an elite neighborhood, two beautiful children who are well mannered and behaved, two dogs and a desired life filled with laughter and joy. We were looked to for advice and admired for the love we demonstrated with strength and faith.

Thank you all so much for your words of wisdom and encouragement. He showed good emotion and even some empathy (of course this was after being caught in a lie) but non the less more than I have got since this started. And of course is cycling back this last week to jerk mode. Hopefully those cycles will get less and less and shorter like they have been. I remember seeing a thread that amyc posted about here story when she was in her mlc. Does anyone have a link to that thread. I cant seem to find it now. or any other threads of people coming out of their mlc. It helps me a lot mentally to read these stories.