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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
23 minutes ago

You are too worried about what she's doing. The only thing that matters now is that your WW has no and I mean no respect for you. You trying to stop her from being with OM don't matter. If she had respect for you, she wouldn't be worried about being with OM. That's what we are trying to get you too understand. Stop trying to find out if she is messing around and respect yourself. Her actions tells you she's isn't loyal. Now OM are beside the point.

You trying to stop your WW from being with OM, is like trying to eat ice cream in your hand with a bowl or cone. You need to create a foundation of respect, with out that, she will always be messing with OM. You won't her to stop, you want her to possibly come back. Start respecting yourself by not putting up with her BS.

Start by moving her stuff out of the MBR and taking it back. It doesn't matter if you move out already. A person that respect themselves don't concern themselves with a person's reaction that are not concerned with theirs.

We are here SG6. This won't be easy, but the earlier you start the faster the process start of possibly getting her back.

Onward and upward
10 188 Read More
For Newcomers
28 minutes ago
Hello Friends,

Itís been a couple of months since my last update.


Iíve continued to work on me. Iím in such a better place emotionally and mentally. Thank God. My main focus right now is becoming totally financially independent of my spouse. I rarely call him a husband anymore. I want to be able to have the life I dreamed of even without him. So Iíve been working my part-time jobs and grinding my business in my free time. I believe the tide is turning. God has put a sense of peace in me that things for me will be ok.

I wake up each day ready to conquer the day. I try to keep my mind positive as well. Iíve found myself smiling more than I have in over a year. God is good!

I still have to work on my weight loss and working out. Itís been a struggle finding the time to workout. My sweet tooth is still a little out of hand as well. Lol!

My Spouse:

Has accepted a position on an opposite coast (yep a whole different state). Iím not standing in his way. He wanted to get away so bad that heís taking a job for less pay then he makes right now. Heís whined to me that heís probably going to have to get a part-time job on top of his full-time one just to maintain.

He will be leaving in a couple of months.

He says he doesnít want a divorce right now. That he wants to go see if living apart helps him figure out if it was the marriage or something else.

I told him donít count on me to be here waiting on him with open arms if he comes back. He believes he has a chance. That ego...I digress.

Other than that heís still playing his little game of pursuit daily. Itís unattractive and I ignore him. He still begs for sex daily. Iím no longer sleeping with him and havenít in a few months. I have no desire or intention on being intimate with him. Iím more focused on myself and my children.

Anyway, I wanted to give a little update. Iím doing well and thank God that Iíve reached this place mentally. I still have work to do but Iím not where I was when I came on this forum. Iím much stronger now. I high five myself daily!
52 1,720 Read More
Midlife Crisis
29 minutes ago
Hello Grace

Awesome post. Well thought out and of course really good living.

Good for you, planning on seeing your lawyer and getting some further answers and options.

I have nothing specific as such. Just find out the worst case scenario, the best case scenario, what you could fight for and most likely win, what you could fight for and most likely lose. Discuss custody and see if sole custody is possible and what it would take to achieve. See what is the legal default for custody and spitting of assets. All just information. Then you can make informed decision on what you want to do. What you are willing to negotiate away and what you are willing to die for.

Remain intellectual with the business deal gone bad mindset and you will make better decisions. Once home and safe you can allow the emotions to flood back and process and accept them.

Generally speaking I believe a better settlement is reached outside of the courts. One can waive certain rights or their portion for something else they want instead. That may sound a little inelegant, yet that is pretty much what this is about - kids and money. And Iíve seen and read many MLCers who have given up custody for money.

When H is offering a settlement, let him (well his L) do most of the talking. If he comes up with, or feels he came up with something, it is much more likely to remain as opposed to something you want or propose. Remember you have time on your side, most MLCers feel trapped and want to get things over and done, and get on with their new wonderful life.

That is exactly what my XW did. In her hurry, she threw away everything to rush to OMís arms and the empty promise of affair provided happiness. Now, I wasnít anywhere near as stable or clearheaded as you are right now. I was very lucky with her rushing though her settlement offer and I had enough sense (and friends and family) to know that was a really good deal, so I accepted. Be open to possibilities, a good deal may be put on the table. Remember - business deal thinking. I know just how icky this all feels. In time, you will see it just as what it is.

- - - -

To start peeling back the layers. Like our individual journeys, each person steps through differently. However there are a few general first things that need to happen:

Identification of fears need to be one of the first things, cannot find acceptance of something if you donít even know what youíre working on. Identification - Check.

Acknowledgement that you have fears. Acknowledgement - Check.

Look at you, two steps are ready completed.

Asking where do I start. What are my first steps. Showing a willingness, a desire, and committing yourself to actually doing this. That might just be the most critical first step. Commitment - Check.

To peel back the layers - follow the sting, follow the pain, follow the fear.

We all have a trail within ourselves we could follow. Layers of our lives covering irrational insecurities and fears. Layers of materialistic items, relationships, and other distractions keeping fear at bay. We donít often walk towards what hurts or fears us. Do that. Follow your trail to your fear.

As you journey through your fear, rationalize what you find and feel. See it for what it is. Let it go.

As LBS, there is a fantastic opportunity for growth and betterment. Our lives are upside down, and torn apart. Layers ripped open, and the deep core of oneís self exposed. Strange feelings and emotional responses seem to run amok. We, of course, will put our self back together. Look at the pieces, keep what you like, change what you donít. Fears, like everything else, are exposed more than at any other time in your life - take advantage of the opportunity to heal really well.

Grace, believe that you will, in the very best sense of the word, be fearless.

44 1,022 Read More
Surviving the Big D
2 hours ago
Well I could see myself and the dr getting married I just personally need more time. I knew she was a keeper after about our 3rd or 4th date but as I mentioned earlier she is a type of woman I have never experienced before and I am still learning her and unpacking my own feelings. My dad told me I need to be prepared for when she pops the question on me.
30 660 Read More
Surviving the Big D
2 hours ago
Well G in my experience when people joke around or make jokes they are actually using the joke as a way to Express themselves and how they feel. He may be thinking about it more than you know.
80 2,058 Read More
Midlife Crisis
2 hours ago
Andrew - I first discovered pie iron a long time ago, as a kid. A family in the campsite next to us invited us over to have campfire pies. That is the first time seeing them and how I learned to use them. Crazy things donít come with instructions. smile Course neither does a fry pan when I come to think about it. Hmmmm. How we supposed to know these things? Ha ha.

No real recipes over here - yet. This is still my slowest progress - cooking. Well anything fancier than fried or out of a tin. smile Well maybe not than bad - I can toast bread pretty darn well. Lol.

JK, I do alright. Most stuff is simple season salt and spices. BBQ is used a far amount. Elaborate meals are not too often. I am getting there, and with the more time I see on my horizon with an eagerly looking towards retirement, I think my cooking will go up a notch or two.

kml - Poutini's House of Poutine. Funny how that came up on Facebook that morning. I looked up the restaurant and D17 and I were really close it. There are so many neat restaurants and shops around, lots to try. My town has two restaurants - a typical sit down family restaurant and a Chinese restaurant. Pretty limited around here. Hmmm. Maybe a DnJís Delicious Delectables Featuring Campfire Pies. Ha ha.

Gerda - An elephant with blue and green toenails - alternating I am assuming. My drawing from my childhood of elephants did not include paint toenails, and looked more like a weirdly shaped water balloon. Funny, they look that way now as well.

Since Iím thinking about elephants. Iíve been face to face with a few over the years, pet zoo type arrangements not running for my life in total panic of being trampled to death, although there was that squirrel with the shifty eyes and evil grin slowly drumming its little fingers together plotting his nefarious deeds. Oops, back to elephants. They have the most soft supple delicate skin. I expected a tough leathery hide on such a beast, was pretty surprised first touching one. Their ears are so thin and silky. Quite remarkable.

Grace - Oh, pie iron grill cheese would be awesome! Ok thatís it. Having a fire tomorrow. Youíre all invited. Iíll make pies. <Smile> That would be a fun time. Iíd never get Andrew off the zip line. smile

Actually did have a last minute planned fire yesterday and burnt the rest of the fallen trees. I called S20, and my parents and invited them for fire, supper, and games. All showed up. Mom won big at Rummoli, which S20 specifically asked to play.

The slice of heaven is pretty nice. S20 stayed over last night and was discussing his future plans which includes purchasing a house. He is looking for rural larger house and yard. City living in something similar would be so expensive, and he is happy to commute as I do. S22 also talks of the same ideas. Following in my footsteps as it were.

This did bring up some financial discussion as well. My footsteps and planning allowed me to become mortgage free 19 years early, something both would love to do for themselves.

S20 has asked XW for his trust funds last week, stating it can help him pay for university. He and I did discuss this particular idea for a while now, along with the best strategy or timing of when XW would be most receptive to agreeing to his request. He kept the conversation strictly about him and her. Kept the Bank of Dad out of the mix, even though that is what a large portion of said funds would be immediately used for.

XW actually agreed. This was a surprise. Now, of course there is always something. She doesnít quite remember the accounts, what she invested in, doesnít readily have any paperwork, etc... This is not new, as she has never provide any information regarding the accounts to any of the kids. However she said she will look into his account and see what she invested in and if it can be withdrawing early. Expectations set to low. Both S20 and I did say how forgetful she is and in a day or two this many not even be on her radar. The accounts are also the only tangible hook or connection she has to her kids. She may fear giving that up. Time will tell. However, she didnít say no. Or get angry like before. Hmmm. Maybe? ...

And S20 let me know that XW is planning some body modifications. What?!? I retract my previous maybe.

Oh my goodness. Yes. So she has been asking for recommendations from people about where to go for tattoos, a body piercing, and a body modification. Iíve no idea what sheís got on her mind. Perhaps she is trying to keep up with D17ís ear cartilage piercing. I asked S20 if he knew what she is looking to do. He said he didnít ask and doesnít want to know. She is most definitely in a rebellious teenager mindset at the moment.

We also talked about prenuptial agreements, and whether to combine finances or keep them separate. Discussed the pros, cons, and wisdom of each view. Didnít think this topic would come up when I invited him out for campfire pies. I guess Iím pretty approachable, and safe.

Hmmm. Kind of strayed a bit there.

Grace, keep digging, give it time, and be patient - youíll be elbow deep in a sink full of dishes in no time.

Wait a minute! That doesnít sound right. Come on DnJ. My goodness, I must have been in the sun too long.

Love to all


PS - Hope you had a laugh or two among the situation updates. It is truly one of the best medicines.
63 1,412 Read More
For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Hey Blu! Always solid advice and very much appreciated. I have read and reread your post and also the entire piecing thread. I had looked for something on here but couldnt seem to find it. I knew there had to be somerhing on piecing. Is there anything more in depth on how to handle reconciliation? I understant its all about patience. I can also see how easy it is to get impatient. As the LBS we've been working on ourselves (hopefully) and standing for months if not way longer. Its so easy to want to push things along.

I am begining to come to the conclusion that I naturally have more empathy for others than most. I am more introspective and self aware than most. I hope those traits work to my benefit and not detriment. Yes he cheated and it's horrible. And I will never minimize the impact of an affair. I am dealing with triggers daily( I'll come back to that). But I also think that as an LBS that chose to stand we have made the decision to forgive our spouse. At least that's how I see it. We KNOW they are having or have had an affair. Therefore we know there is going to have to be forgiveness in our hearts and minds toward them. That is for us more than them. So we can let go. They have a ton of work to do on themselves and so do we. We all have choices to make. I am chosing to forgive and start purging my anger and resentments. I don't like feeling ugly and torn up inside. I know I have to give myself time. Don't try to deflect and minimize what I feel. Face it head on and feel things and process it fully. Then accpet I felt that way and let it go. Maybe it seems I am oversimplifying things. I'm just long since ready to be done being angry.

Back to being triggered... I found out from S15 last night while talking about H revelations to them that S15 has meet OW. Its been nearly 2 months back. She came over to the apt while son was visiting H. She was introduced as a friend and son didnt think anything of it. Bless his trusting naive heart. I was so ANGRY at H for having the audacity to bring her around one of our kids. I told him from the git go that was a big no no. But after processing I realized two things...A) I have no idea the context of how she came over. Did she show up unannounced and H didnt want to make a seen? Did she manipulate H into being allowed over? The point is I have no idea. Which leads into...B) As much as it pisses me off I was almost 2 months ago. To H it's long since gone. Sunday's epiphanies are recent and fresh. But me learning about something after the fact triggered great feelings of anger and betrayal. I cried I raged I ranted. I purged. Now today I feel annoyance. But going to him with this would I feel not help. Like in Sandi's piecing thread the S seems to see the whole situation as one big fubar session. While the LBS does seem to feel things like the death of 1000 cuts. We feel things differently because we experience things differently.

I know there is a lot of feelings and opinions about rings. I had put my rings back on prior to talking to him Sunday night. I was wearing them while talking to him and he didnt know. My rings are about me. My commitment to my marriage. My symbol of hope and love. Minus for the occasional cleaning I have never taken them off in 17 years. I was able to wear them throughout all three pregnancies. Due to his job he's spent more time without them than with them. Obviously me taking mine off affected him a lot. As much as it svcks and I have to remind myself; he has to process his feelings for the OW. He might have come to realize he never stopped loving me and loves me more than anyone and doesnt want a divorce but like it gets said all over...breaking up is hard. Limerant feelings dont just disappear. But I do believe because he moved out and left and they've had to deal with reality together its a different dynamic than if it had remained an emotional fantasy affair. Not trying to mind read him or the situation just trying to put together what I read here and other sites.
78 1,493 Read More
Midlife Crisis
2 hours ago
I just want to stick my oar in here and say Kirsty, you are doing amazingly well.

Youíve got this!
57 674 Read More
For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Look at the title of this thread. Then go back and count how many of your post conflict with the title.

I'm aspiring to get there. It's an opportunity but also a loss. I can tell from her texts she feels it too.

Anyway, off to GAL. I have some great GAL plans this week.
47 767 Read More
For Newcomers
4 hours ago
Originally Posted by Steve85
Make plans for only you and S. If she wants to come along she will let you know. Don't invite her. Let her ask.

H:"W, I am going to the super market with S8"
37 299 Read More
For Newcomers
4 hours ago
Getting frustrated with all the No's I am having to deal with.

I am 56 years and feel like I am being treated less than that.

Tired of the couch surfing, imposing on family and friends, not being able to cook and my body is still out of sorts.

72 1,723 Read More
For Newcomers
5 hours ago
Hey Chris, did you finalize your divorce with XW?
8 367 Read More
Surviving the Big D
5 hours ago
Happy Sunday everyone. Usual long rambling nonsense going on.

Slept in this morning and it was glorious even if lonely. B is out at the cottage with S38 / GS3/4. She had to pick her youngest son up after a wedding out that way and so decided to stay at the cottage. It's her happy place anyway. I chose to not go as I do like having time and space to myself. And TBH - why go live in a shack on an uncomfortable bed when I have a perfectly good house right here and no end of things to keep me occupied.

We had another talk on Saturday morning. B had intended to make breakfast for us but got distracted and so I started it. She then charged in and announced she would make the eggs which got her upset because she forgot how I liked them until the last moment when they were already plated. I didn't say anything of course other than that I was sure that they were perfectly fine.

The talk mainly revolved around how I know she really wants to help out and to make my life easier and better but the way she's going about it involves her taking away from me the things I love doing. I think she's gotten the message but it will be a set of boundaries I need to keep with.

Part of the problem for me is that I keep seeing / hearing echos of things I didn't like about my ex-wife. Friday night she was exhausted and was laying down on the couch while I read for a bit after work. On Fridays I don't get home until about 7:30pm. Then I realized that there were clothes still out on the line and dishes piled on the counter including ones I'd want to use for breakfast. So I quietly got up, did the dishes and brought the clothes in to the delight of the mosquitoes who came out when the sun went down. Since some were damp I hung them up on the indoor clothesline. In the morning B was musing about the clothes and how she should go get them and was annoyed but also pleased I think that I'd already taken care of things. The echos I see are my ex's tendency to make promises and plans and then never follow through on them. We've had a few times when B has agreed that we would do an activity together but then later have other plans. Yes - perhaps it's me being OCPD / boring old coot and I'm working on being adaptable. With me ex-wife I had to just accept that as if I would do the things, I'd get in trouble. Now I'm just doing the things that I feel need to be done. Hopefully this won't be a source of friction between us. I've not mentioned that I actually do some of things better than she does, especially the cleaning. It's probably for the best to not mention that.

Speaking of my ex-wife she actually walked down the driveway on Friday after parking directly across the street. She knew I wasn't home but that B was. B saw her from the back yard but there was no interaction. I expect there to not be. She was there to do some driving practice with S24 who had been sitting waiting in his car for her for some time. They were gone for about 1/2 hour. When I got home he seemed grumpy and plainly refused to talk about a job I'd heard of for him that is literally 2 doors down. B had done a fairly poor job of parking and S24 had some difficulty getting around her car.

I don't know what's up with my ex although I continue to be too curious for my own good. I do believe she is still in her apartment although she's now selling OM's stuff online so that's still a thing. It's roughly 4 years now that she's been seeing him. In a few days it will have been 3 years since I begged her on my knees to not leave and she did anyway after gutting the house.

B is working on negotiating us moving. I've said I am here for at least 10 years. She's now trying to negotiate 5. One thing she's adamant on is that the cats leave when S24 does - whenever that might be. I push back that there is a good chance that the cats will stay and I'm ok with that. I think that the fact that she moved in here with me and that this is my long-time home makes the dynamics much different than they might be otherwise. She did join me for Saturday errands although she had to leave for the cottage right as soon as we got back. We did drive around a new sub-division that is being built and talked about what we wanted in a place. I think she's going to have a fair chunk of cash in hand after her settlement and an inheritance - both of which are well over a year out. She's talked about us going in jointly for a house. I don't know if I'm comfortable with that. Personally I think she should take whatever windfall comes her way and put it aside for her retirement. It's cheap to live here and as long as I can continue to take care of things there's no reason I can think of to move.

It is a bit tiring hearing her complain about this place although she's doing it less over time corresponding to more and more referring to is as "our place" and home rather than "Andrew's place". I don't believe that there are any annoying ex-wife ghosts bothering her here.

I'm also trying to figure out how to have regular conversations with her. She talks continuously about almost everything and that's more or less fine. I tend to talk slowly after thinking over what I want to say and it does make it hard to get a word in edgewise. By the time I get my thoughts organized she's changed topics at least twice wink I presume it's an Italian thing (?)

I did have a laugh - FSL was surprised that I showed up for my roses hours earlier than usual. I grumbled that B was trying to give me free time on Saturday afternoons by taking away the relaxing time I usually enjoyed in the morning. That got me an eye-roll.

Trust is still a huge thing with me. I loved my ex - but I never trusted her - at all sorts of levels. Lies about the most trivial of things were common. That's perhaps why her affair, while devastating and somewhat of a shock wasn't as big as it might have been. I was actually surprised about how decent she was as we sorted things and even after bomb-day as she could have taken far more advantage of me than she did. I will say here that I still have work to do on trusting B. Not that I think she would have an affair necessarily - it's just the whole "being there" thing with me. I've never really had anyone in my life that I could trust completely and it does make me feel at times like I'm living "on edge".

B has promised to make us ribs tonight so I have a rack of them out of the freezer. I have no clue when she's coming home but expect it to be late afternoon at the earliest. If she's late I'll figure out how to cook them. I'm sure to have a recipe somewhere. Speaking of recipes I made a date mug cake from the batch of single serve recipes I have from Love Swah - a blogger from Australia. It looked odd but tasted really good. I use her "Lonely Girl Pancake" recipe as my main stand-by.

B had told me to not cut the grass yesterday because of the heat but she wasn't here so I got over half of it done before I ran out of gas. I then spent a couple of hours picking black currants and a surprising number of spiders from my bush. Until I was alone that bush never was harvested. My ex did the bulk of the cooking and had no interest in the contents of our gardens. When I did have one, most of the produce would get thrown out. I got a fair bit of currants during my picking, washed, sorted them and put them in the freezer. The bush was a house warming present from my grandfather and is one of many things that ties me to this land.

Picking black currants I find a tedious job. The currants sit under the branch and are hard to spot. They are tiny and need to be picked one by one. I wanted to be sure that I had enough so that I can do a couple of rhubarb / black currant pies, especially for when D27 comes home for Thanksgiving. Picking reminded me of a mind shift I had when I was a boy. I was cleaning the manure from the stables and unlike Hercules was neither a hero nor did I have a handy stream to divert. But what I learned that day and keep getting reminded of is that looking at a large task can be overwhelming. But if instead you focus on the task in front of you and keep plugging away in time you'll get done and be surprised by how well it all went. I use this thought when cleaning, especially when the fairy has left a large pile of dishes on the counter. It serves me well. Just keep going and you'll get done.

B is going "up north" next Thursday to see her STBX for the weekend and help him remove a building that was destroyed in the winter by snow load. Why she has to go is confusing to me but he's not doing it on his own I've been told. He is older but not too much and is as far as I know is healthy and active. I think that she's both looking forward to going up there and also not. She certainly is looking forward she said to sitting on "her deck" and listening to the waves rolling in. She did mention though that the consumer proposal that they had to enter into will all be completed in the next few months. That will at least give her some much needed cash flow. She did say that her STBX cannot afford to buy her out of the house. He's threatened suicide a few times over the house and has been clinically diagnosed as being depressed and also historically has refused to take his meds. Not my issue but certainly may make things drag out.

Well - my pot of tea is empty. It's a glorious sunny day outside so I need to pop in to town and get more gas for the mower, finish the lawn and then perhaps go for a walk. I may do the small amount of ironing that is needed to be done this afternoon - maybe if I split it between Wednesday and the weekend it won't take so much time. Turning a big task into little ones.
83 2,790 Read More
For Newcomers
5 hours ago
Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by IronWill

Thanks U. I didnt initiate it, she did by messenger. She started talking about the realtor coming and how I needed to be there. Told her I would think about it, then she wanted to argue about that - why wouldn't I want to be there. So then I said thats fine - whatever day you want to do it, do it.

Perhaps it was a mistake but shes been radio silent for weeks now so I figured it would be a good opportunity to tell her that since this was the direction she was going that i was going to start rearranging the bills so that I pay my stuff she pays hers, with the house joint bills continuing. She started panicking - she uses the internet way more, watches all the TV now, and her phone bill is through the roof. She pulled out the D talk in panic and I said the validation thing about that's not what I want but if that's what you want to do I wont stop you.

And then she morphed it into an R talk without me realizing it. I was too tired to fight it - I should have put the phone away but there were some things I felt she needed to hear, and things I will not say again. Like how I may not be able to stay in the area - she panicked on that one too. I didnt try to rationalize any of this stuff or explain it to her, and I didnt do it to get back at her. The opportunities for conversation are so rare, i figured it was now or never - trial by fire. Yes I know it's against DBing rules but it's reality hitting me hard. She hasn't experienced any repercussions yet.

IW - Wait, this was by text or voice?

Honestly IW, you've been in limbo for so long, and you are GAL'ing and doing the best you can, and nothing changes in your sitch. I have a lot of respect for how you've handled things. The exhaustion is a sign to take care of yourself first and foremost. The point of all the DB stuff is to improve yourself and feel better. The best analogy I can think of is weight-lifting... every once in awhile you hit a plateau and need to de-load for a week. Maybe it's time to de-load, whatever that entails, just to refresh your mind and your perspective. Or switch up what you are doing a little bit, just for a change of scenery.

Sorry I don't have anything more concrete.

Hey U -

This was by text. She will not talk other than a sentence here or there. Not to me or anyone in real life about the sit. Seems to be only talking to divorced internet people - recent acquaintances from far away who she has never met and she has this teenager like rebellious thing going on - heavy metal bands and things like that that she was never really into.

Ive always been more of the music discovery type of guy and I found this band I kind of liked back when things were still good. Showed it to her one night when we were having a few drinks and youtubing. I didnt think anything of it and she didnt seem to like the band

Fast forward a few months and shes chatting with this dude after she followed his professional social media page - hes from a semi famous metal band and they started texting back and forth. At first I thought nothing of it and she would show me his texts. Then it changed slowly. he's a lead singer and she liked the attention. For the first 3 or 4 weeks in Sept she hid her phone and tablet then that stopped and she hasnt done it since - leaves them out everywhere when I'm around.

I think it was an IA or is an IA at least- could be an EA. I'm not snooping to figure it out, dude is a loser anyway - lots of issues and an alcoholic and hard drug user as far as I can tell from his social media page. When i found DB i stopped following him and all the other pages he was associated with and stopped looking at Ws social media posts - they were so bizarre anyway.

Who knows anything else is beyond me. I dont want to know. When she pulled her rings off I ceased all trying to know what she was doing and i knew she was mentally checked out of the R.

I have dropped all pursuit and had given up all attempts at talking for months now. I felt there were things that had to be said in that text conversation - hard things that she needed to hear. It is the only time I have done this. I did it for my own sanity and peace of mind and I will not be saying them again. Once is enough. I validated when I could but I was brutally honest. It was a 180 from not saying anything since January.

LBS newbies - take note, this is why you dont talk about R's. As I said before I did not initiate it, but in a way I am glad it happened. It needed to.

I did it once, as a last resort and to set some specific boundaries on my part. It was to tell her that I will not be continuing to pay for things that she does and for utilities that she uses if the house is going to be sold. It was to stand up and say that if these are the actions that she continues to take that there will be consequences. She was angry but I really dont care at this point. I'm at my limit.

U - i am gonna be taking it easy this week. I have so many other things that are falling apart that they will just have to continue to fall apart without me. I'm tired of putting out fires. I'm going on a break from all this drama. My turn to check out for awhile.

Thanks bud - sometimes it's good just to know someone else is listening. I do appreciate it.

Stay strong:)
9 176 Read More
For Newcomers
5 hours ago
Why is it they now blame us for everything? Is it to justify their actions? Why and how does a person become so focused only on the negative? Why am I always painted as a bad guy?

B/c she won't/didn't take responsibility for her own happiness. It was easier to hold you responsible, although she did not about her negative mindset. It's all symptoms of developing a wayward mindset. She is hell bent on blaming you for whatever complaint she can find.

Some people are bound & determined to find something wrong with how you do thing. There was this man who could find nothing positive in his W's efforts, no matter how hard she tried to please him. One morning she asked him how he wanted his eggs cooked. He told he wanted one scrambled and the other egg fried. So, she prepared the eggs to the best of her ability and served her H. When he gazed upon his plate of food, he was furious. His poor W asked what was wrong. He said, "You fried the wrong egg"! So, there you have it. There's just no pleasing some folks.

On a more serious note, I don't know what to tell you how to make your D do something she refuses to do. She knows as long as her mother is nearby she doesn't have to obey you. Have you spoken with a child psychologist about how to deal with this problem?

She is at a very challenging age, and I can only imagine how her mother has planted unhealthy seeds in her mind. You definitely needs hands-on practical advice in dealing with both of them. (((hugs)))
71 1,526 Read More
For Newcomers
5 hours ago
Originally Posted by Someguy6
She wants to be able to talk for hours on end every single day the rest of our life.
YUP, just like every other woman on this planet. Listen to understand how she feels and validate. This is how you emotionally connect with a woman. She talks, you listen. Few words from you, just enough to show that you are paying attention. Full eye contact.

93 129,681 Read More
For Newcomers
5 hours ago
Originally Posted by sandi2
IHCLACS , if you feel suicidal, please call a hot line or someone to talk you off the ledge. For sure, get into therapy!

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For Newcomers
6 hours ago
Can someone explain what that means? Of all the pictures she could send, she sends pictures of caviar?

Another Stander:
It means you stole her Plan B and now she's scrambling to get it back. My opinion? Ignore every single thing she sends you. You've laid down a boundary stating you are done and want her out, stick to it. Let her feel the loss for a while and see what she does.

I agree!

W: I don't agree with what you are saying. I think we should try it my way.
Me: Sorry but that doesn't work for me.
W: What if I move out and a few weeks or months later I realize you are what I wanted all along?
Me: I suppose you should hope I'm still single then.

whistle I didn't copy & paste the entire conversation, but it was one of the best I've heard from a LBH since Robx's days on the forum. You could not have handled it better, IMHO. You sounded calm, in control, in an alpha male. There were no moments of weakness on your part. I loved it! Did you notice her responses were all about herself? She wants time to see how she'll feel after living apart. But she wants to live in style, and she visualizes the two of you having a relationship like her sister & boyfriend. I think her sister and boyfriend's lifestyle is influencing her. Probably not just the sister, but other outside influences.

She was disillusioned about married life, and once the honeymoon was over her sexual desire for you dropped.......b/c she placed you in the friend zone. The two of you became roommates, instead of lovers. I don't think she is emotionally ready for a baby yet. Secretly, she may not want to have a child. There's nothing wrong with that, but she may feel that it is expected of her. The plans to get pregnant in Feb placed emotional pressure on her, and she started rejecting the whole thing.

IMHO, she has shown some overt rebellion, taking her ring off when at a bar is clearly representing herself as an unmarried woman. I don't buy the hand lotion excuse. I have found that whenever a W wants to spend the night at a friend's place rather than going home to her H, it's usually a red flag. I'm not saying she was sleeping with a guy, I'm just saying it is usually a step further into a rebellious lifestyle. She is rebelling against the marriage, against possible motherhood, and against her H. I don't know what you discovered that signed the marriage death certificate for you, but I think your response was spot on, and an example of how H's should address this type of situation. You've tried various MC, and nothing has seemed to have a positive effect for change or inspired her to work for a healthy relationship with her H. She is self-centered and wants the relationship on her terms. She doesn't appear to consider your feelings while she's trying to sort out herself.

I think she might imagine it feeling more sexually exciting if you weren't married, but IDK. As you said, that doesn't work for you. You want to have a secure, loving, and sexual MR. You are a young man, who would like to have a family in the near future. She can't expect everyone to conform to whatever makes her feel a certain way.......while she gives nothing in return. She doesn't even understands what is lacking for her in the MR. Expecting you to confirm to some type of open styled, unstable, uncommitted relationship, based on however her hormones/moods dictate at the moment seems selfish and immature.

I sound harsh, and the reason is b/c I can relate to some things I see in her. She is dissatisfied and she's rebelling. I went through something similar about the early part of my second year of M. I was very young, got pregnant right away, and was disillusioned about married life. I even left my H for a few days. (Years later I would have an EA that nearly ended my M.) Your W is several years older than I was at the time I married, but I don't think she is having a MLC. I think she is bored, dissatisfied, disillusioned, selfish, and maybe a little spoiled. It can happen in any MR. I don't know if she has conducted herself in an inappropriate manner with another man, but if she's going to bars and taking off her ring, staying out till the wee hours of the morning, etc.........I'd guess she's been window shopping, at least. I don't know why you are so sure she wouldn't be in an affair, b/c it's not like she hasn't had ample opportunity when you are traveling. Women even have affairs when their H's are never gone from home. There are several types of affair, but most men are more focused on whether it was physical or not.

None of that may have any bearing on your feelings, one way or the other. I'm just expressing my thoughts. I want to warn you of what I think she'll do, since she isn't wanting to rush right out to her new apartment. I think she is going to start being so sweet, wanting to spend more time with you, sending photos throughout the day, texting all the time, and getting physically affectionate. She may even initiate sex. She will do most anything to make you feel an emotional connection to her. So, be prepared. She's already wanting you to watch tv with her, b/c she finds it comforting or whatever. Yeah, that's her working you right there. It's just like a spider weaving her web. You'll be caught up in before you realize what's happening. So, stay on your toes and don't be fooled by her suddenly becoming affectionate. I think she'll get quite creative, but we'll see. The point is that it doesn't mean anything. She'll temp check you to see your weak spots and stir your empathy, sexual desire, or whatever works at that moment. Rapidly pull away from any such pursuits from her. If she wants to change and seriously work to save her M, then she won't pull these little feminine tricks and will stop thinking about herself all the time, and focus on how to make the MR better, if given the chance. In the meantime, she should work on herself and know what she truly wants in her life. Some women see M as the answer to their dreams, then after the wedding.......what's next? Why doesn't she feel the same anymore? Why isn't the MR doing it for her? Whatever is lacking, IMHO, is in the heart/mindset of your W. She's got to figure it out.

My question for you...... are you really done with it? Is there anything she could do that would change your mind and want to give the relationship another chance? B/c if you are really through with it, continue with the D process. And, if you aren't really through with it, and she hasn't signed the papers........continue with the D process. This needs to be very real for her. Stick to your words you spoke in your talk about things not remaining the same. Don't respond to her photos and texting. Don't allow her to cry on your shoulder about her problems or feelings. Go as dark as possible. Couples with no children can actually do this, and I think it is the method you should use during the six months of waiting for the D to go through (if she doesn't sign). During that period, she'll have time to experience life without you. Maybe it will open her eyes, or maybe she'll find someone else. At any rate, after divorce, you should not try to maintain a "connection" with her during the first six-twelve months, IMHO. Sometimes couples get back together after they've been apart. I think it should be a slow process (see if there are changes), and date each other before suddenly jumping back into another M.

It's a funny thing with human beings. They want what they can't have. The minute she saw you were dumping her, she found herself wanting what she saw herself losing.

Everyone doesn't agree with this approach, and I can respect that. It's your decision. I'm not going to pressure you. It's your life. ((hugs))
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Surviving the Big D
6 hours ago
No. I want to know that someone is interested in me. I want to feel cared for. No one should have to always wonder where they stand.

Then don't waste your energies on a guy whose response to "I'm ready to date" is to point out all the OTHER guys he thinks you should date! You want the guy who puts his hand up and yells "Me! Me! Me!"

Take it from the girl who spent the first few years after divorce dating Love Avoidants or otherwise unavailable men.
73 1,674 Read More
For Newcomers
7 hours ago
Hello all,

I am on a mini-vacation with my family. Everything seems to be going great. My wife is using words of endearment much more often. Please keep me and my family in your prayers. I am trying to stay in the present, and not worry constantly about my future. I am trying to be the best dad and husband I can be. You all are in my prayers. I hope you all have a good weekend.
48 662 Read More
For Newcomers
9 hours ago
Thanks again Sandi. Your scenario sounds very very similar to mine. My W was always straight as an arrow and Iíd stake my life she never did anything like this when we were happy. She always said if I cheated on her I was cheating on the boys too. She thought people who had affairs were scum. But things havenít been right for years now and very similar to you she admitted it was the ego boost, the flattery, the buzz, the fix. She said at first she wouldnít send him any pics but once sheíd done one it became easier and they became more graphic.

She has admitted she fancies him but knows he is a POS and there is no long term there. Sheís even said many times to me, friends and family that she can see us getting back together in the future. WTF???? Maybe she just wants to have some fun, some meaningless sex and then come back to me when sheís done. Iíve said it wonít happen.

Everything you have said rings true with her. The depression, the lack of energy and drive. I think the guy is a player and probably only wanted some guilt free no strings sex and deep down she thinks the same (at least thatís what she said, donít know if she truly believes that).

Any advice how I deal with the thoughts she may be with him whilst I am away with the boys fishing? Just the thought of it makes me feel sick.
56 851 Read More
For Newcomers
10 hours ago
Hi Ben, I would be happy to take a look and give my thoughts. Thank you.
46 1,625 Read More
For Newcomers
10 hours ago

You are so right. I look at today and whilst I stood my ground on some s*tty behaviour, yeah I was bothered by my inability to stop being nice. She talked a lot to me today, about how so and so wants us to come over. As if we were married. She talked about how she still felt worry about how we bought the house (we bought, before sold) and doesn't like the house. I talked her down because I knew where this was heading (into a tirade about our relationship). Ten minutes later, she says she loves living here.

Sandi, You've clarified what I know deep down I've had to do all along. Because I hate this sitch and I know if it drags on, I'm the one who will leave. Which saves her the work of course. I've been too chicken.

It's Monday tomorrow. A new week. I'm going to make this promise. I don't care if the s*t will fly. It's going to hit her hard and I need to do something.

I promise that:
- SMS and phone rules are in force, exception being kids logistics
- All family events stop, barring Sons Bday which is in two weeks. This includes family get togethers on the weekend. If asked why I reply: "I'm not your husband, you fired me remember? I'm single and have no desire to be friends with someone who disrespects me" (to quote her lines)
- I will book my calendar
- I will pop on DB Forums in a week to post an update
- You can put me in my place if I don't follow through

Wish me luck
80 1,277 Read More
For Newcomers
11 hours ago
It's been a few weeks since I last posted. I have been crazy busy. Work is really busy right now so I'm eating up whatever overtime they are offering at the moment. I've also been trying to get out some when I am not working. Took my mom to a water park and spent the day with her for her birthday which was fun. It was nice to enjoy a water park with this crazy hot summer we've been having.

As for the stbxw not a lot has changed, besides her getting a new email address... Using my last name in it, was a little confusing and shes also back on Facebook after deleting her account when I discovered the affair.

I also had a meeting with another lawyer and will be retaining her this upcoming week. We are going to try drafting up a settlement offer using the last offer I gave her and send it to her from her office. maybe that will let her know that I am serious??? I told the attorney that if she can't agree to this and wants to go to litigation which will cost me more than I am going to go after everything I can. So I am still giving her one more opportunity to walk away easy. Once she gets the offer she'll have 10 days to respond. But that's where I'm at with that.

My friend that I'm staying with has told me I can stay as long as needed and to try and get through the D first before trying to move out. Which is probably a good idea so I don't end up struggling with paying the attorney, court costs, and my living expenses.

Also some of her family has been a little chatty with me as of lately, ones that Im very sure know what's going on and they keep referring me as their family without mentioning the current situation which is a little weird.
15 392 Read More
For Newcomers
12 hours ago
Hey U -

I hear you on the texting skirmishes. Especially since it seems to be the only way W is willing to communicate.

What I've done if it's not an urgent exchange is stop replying immediately. This changes the dynamic quite a bit. I wait and think about what I am going to say. How to say it - rewrite it in my head before typing it out, then proofread what I write before sending it.

Usually if there is a text that is not a question I will keep the response short and concise but civil. Things are not as they were before, in her head the R is over - so why would the "immediate response" text remain?

You can't control what kind of parent your W will be - it [censored] that she said that about strict time limit - but I do recall those exact words being flung around during my parents' D when I was 11 or 12 and beyond.

I don't have kids, but maybe some of the vets with kids can chime in here and offer words of encouragement or advice.

I wouldn't worry too much about one exchange. I slipped up too the other night, but there were a lot of improvements in how I was able to validate. I think you're getting there too - it's all a learning process.

Excellent GAL too!

Take care man smile
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