I still feel so torn over whether to wait this thing out or move on. I mean I know all the things I need to do for myself, but I feel like it wouldn't take much to shift my thinking and just be done with her, whether she comes around or not. I have loved her most of my life, but how can I be with someone who can leave me like that...as if we meant nothing. That isn't love, and even if she comes back around, do I want to be with someone who is capable of doing that? I'm not capable of that and how do I know that if she comes back around at some point she won't do it again. I love her enough to wait, but I'm just not sure if I should.
Those are all valid feelings and thoughts.
Gerda is correct, you do not need to decide anything right now.
I understand the torn feeling between waiting and moving on. So maybe do both. Stand and move forward.
You are right it probably wouldn’t take much to shift your thinking and be done with her. But would it hold? How long until it shifted back? When you want to change your thinking do it for you. Make changes not in an effort to be done with her, make changes for the betterment of yourself. Those will hold. Those will last.
Feeling and thoughts, so fleeting. Give it time, feelings do change. Allow your beliefs to form, you will find answers and direction.
Blu and Arsh, There just has to be someone out there who Arsh's husband met. Perhaps he doesn't want to have an affair so he put everything on hold and said "let me get divorced and then I'll call you" or something like that. Or perhaps he simply met someone for a night and it opened his eyes to all these new possibilities and made him re-think his whole life. There must have been a trigger. Why did he choose BD at that particular time? Sure having a newborn is stressful and it's tempting sometimes to imagine another life but to suddenly just need an immediate divorce??!!
I remember Arsh you saying that your husband doesn't want to get separated first because he doesn't want to give you any hope. My husband used those same words the week before he took his girlfriend off to Dubai on a celebratory trip.
Blu, I'm curious as to how you think our husbands differ? I can take a guess. Mine is just totally out-of-control in all aspects of his life and has years of history now behaving this way. Arsh's husband sounds like he's still holding down a stable job and caring for the kids. Arsh's husband changed overnight with no prior track record of this behavior. Still, they both came from overseas and married before they got a chance to experience single life in the US (or Canada or wherever Arsh lives). They might both have regrets about "missing out." I have no idea because I've spent way too much time trying to figure out my own husband and I still can't.
Arsh, the good thing is there appears to be total consensus on this forum that your husband isn't leaving because you were too controlling or because you didn't support him enough while he was depressed. Hopefully the collective knowledge of this forum helps in at least reinforcing the fact that you are a responsible mom and wife and you've done everything you can to try to stop this divorce. It seems you've done everything you can do. If you stay busy for a year or two I bet one day you'll get a knock on the door or a surprise phone call and guess who will be sorry?! It's worth addressing with your new IC what you'll do if and when that happens. For now, it seems there's nothing more you really need to do. Perhaps mourn the finalization of the divorce and your husband's move-out and then figure out the best routine for your girls going between you and your husband.
I can tell you I've been doing everything as a single mom 100% on my own and it's possible even though I doubt anyone would choose this as their preferred way of raising kids. It's a strange feeling to make decisions on your own, especially related to choices you make for your children. It takes a while to get used to it. I'm sure there are plenty of members here who will support you during this next stage as well.
Maika, you do a great job of summarizing everything in a concise way! I'm sure I'd write 10X that amount to try to say the same thing. Thanks for your encouragement. I think I could have done a lot better than I've done but I guess I had to get healthy to even plan anything, then accept that there'd be no reconciliation under the circumstances of us living near my husband in our old state, and now not even depending on my husband financially. I appreciate all your comments and support since last fall. It took a lot of strength to cut-off almost all contact with my husband and probably only the members of this forum can understand that. Maika, I hope you don't disappear like so many people here do. I hope you'll let us know how things turn out!
So, just kind of wanted to say, in the past few days, I've been able to actually not think about her much at all and in not snooping for a long while, it has made everything so much easier. It's allowed me to focus on myself and my S so much more. I've actually felt HAPPY most of this week! It's something I didn't think I would feel again. It actually feels like progress towards detachment.
I am just hoping I don't backslide once I do meet up in person with her to discuss things. I've been practicing validation for our next conversations and in actually being happier, hopefully it will show. I'm thinking I'll do well!
I'm just glad to actually feel happy again and have it not feel forced.
Thanks, DB346. In my sitch, no OM or anything like that, but really, the difference at a certain point is not really relevant. The ultimate takeaway is that she sees the potential for a better life without me more than she does being able to make what we have better. Whether that was with an OM or simply by herself, the basic idea is still the same. I'm not what she wants anymore. I certainly have no expectations of any kind. Hope is indeed all I have.
I'm definitely focused on improving myself and the depression is under control with IC and medication. I'm immensely sorrowful and in pain over the sitch, but I'm not sitting here telling myself how much of a waste of a life I am and feeling suicidal like I would if I was still in the throes of clinical depression. If I hadn't finally sought treatment and this happened, there's a high chance I wouldn't be here typing anything right now.
I know that all I can do is become the best me I can either way. She will change her mind or she won't, it's completely up to her in the end. We still have 3 boys to raise into manhood either way as well. So whatever happens with the relationship, we are still going to need to co-parent effectively. As a couple or as exes, we still have these little guys to look out for. I will refuse to get into the gutter and make things ugly, for all of our sakes. Property, money, things. They don't mean much in the long run, but those kids are not an asset to be fought over and I will not perpetuate an atmosphere of vitriol between myself and their mother. I will as I have always done teach them to love, cherish and respect her. No matter what.
I took a quick read of your opening posts (I am going to read more) and there are similarities. I think you have a good idea in reading some of the sitchs here, it may provide some further insight or help.
It doesn’t matter if it is MLC, WW, WAW, or something else - they all hurt, and I am sorry you find yourself in this situation.
Please feel free to post comments and ask questions. There are many compassionate people here, with a lot of wisdom.
Yeah I am also wondering if interactions with W meant I surrendered or felt just being was not enough? I also have a lot of idle time as I havent worked directly except online selling in the last 3 years..I wonder if that is really working against me? What I uncovered today as I sat with the idea is that my anxiety is still running quietly in the background. I will journal on this topic and get back to you. In the meantime let me go help Hongaku!
The comments below only apply if her lack of wanting sex is the real issue and not other things.
The question you need to ask yourself first is "What have I done to try and make her want sex more?" If there is no medical reason for her lack of desire for sex there are things you can do to increase her arousal. Firstly you should start going to the gym, dressing up nicer, wearing cologne, have a nice hair style etc. All people are more aroused by someone who looks better versus the same person that does not try to look good. Next have you tried giving her compliments to make her feel more beautiful and sexy. Compliment her clothes, her smile, her hairstyle if she does it differently. I am sure you get the picture. Most women really like to be touched and caressed when there is no expectation of sex. Offer her a footrub to start as that is easily taken as non sexual. Backrubs as well but then there is the issue of expectation (on your part and fear of expectation on her part).
Give her kisses for no reason and the same with hugs and cuddling. If she really likes watching TV then just watch TV with her and cuddle. You might have to do this for a few weeks or even months (or possibly only a few days) to make a difference but it will take the pressure she feels off of her about sex. If you make someone feel wanted then they will want you in return. By changing how you treat her she will have no choice but to respond differently compared to what she normally does.
If none of this works then there could be some other issue such as hormones, other marital problems, etc.
So, i am super busy. Super tired. I need my life to get back into a more stable routine. New job has me stressed, but i am getting the hang of it and feel confident that i will be pretty good at it. And so far everyone has been pretty supportive.
I never would have predicted that i would have ease with career but struggle with my love life and relationships.
NG, called me out on my detachment . (Im genuinely busy) and i just feel bad.
Many women struggle with a man that wants to commit. I had no trouble finding some one that wanted a long term relationship with me and is willing to work on it... he did apologize and say he would have to think before he says things. He also said something along the lines of not taking things i do to heart knowing that its just how i am. He also made me a bouquet of flowers. I had agreed i need to speak out immediatly so he knows something is wrong.
But i am having doubts. Like, i just feel turned off. I worry that he will be argumentative with my son when he gets older. Im not sure if its me. I would never want to string someone along. He doesnt want games. But i am just not feeling quite right and not sure how to handle it.
I'll give my two cents here. 99.999999999% probability that your husband is moving in with his OW. No one would leave their pregnant wife and move in with a random girl from work if they were only having a crisis about the baby. He would have been upset that you were pregnant because that totally ruins his plans with the OW. I doubt he has told her about the baby with you yet because an OW of that age would leave him for sure just based on that. So if it is a relationship it will be doomed to fail once she finds out. Don't attempt to tell her as it will come out by itself and it will just make you look bad. Just detach, GAL, work on yourself and wait it out to see what happens.
People that have no desire to work on their relationship don't want to because they have another relationship with someone else already that has greener grass.
You need to think long and hard about whether or not you even want him back. That is what I am doing with my WAW now. I have totally changed by GAL and doing 180's and actually listening to every problem she listed that I had. I did some deep soul searching and analyzed the past and realized she was right. So I changed everything to be a better version of myself FOR MYSELF. These changes are permanent. I was not a good husband. But she was not a good wife either. And now I am in a weird situation because I do not want her back unless she can change as well. It is really complicated because we have 3 kids so I have to give her the chance to change even though I don't think she can do it.
Forgive me if I missed it in the thread, but why do you believe her parents would be urging her to leave you?
I'm into arts, culture etc. W parents have no sense of humour whatsoever and are not interested in anything apart from their daughter and grandchildren. They are now all living in the same house. They also stand to gain financially...!
W mother recently said to my mother "I would never have married your son" and she has said much the same thing to me complaining that I should never ask where my W goes or has been. I now know where my W has been... taking cash and hiding it at their house in advance of a D.
I know every story is different with many similarities.
This is a letter wrote by a man who left is wife and kids for la-la land:
'Don't be me and live with regret': a man's letter to other men tempted to cheat 18:37 03/02/2015 admin
Jacob* left his wife of almost a decade for a woman he had been romancing online. But the grass wasn't greener on the other side. He shares his story with YOU.
"I was you 9 years ago.
I was married, had been with my wife for 15 years. Then I left her 2 months short of our 10 year wedding anniversary.
We were parents to two beautiful children, who are in their late teens now, but were only seven and nine years old when I walked out.
I travelled for work, stayed in a different hotel at least three nights a week. That’s how I met Eve*.
We got to know each other over time. We became Facebook friends. We sent messages to each other all day and night. She was also married, also had two kids. We had so much in common, we soon fell in love. I felt like she 'got' me.
This was all during a very trying time in my marriage. I wasn’t happy, I didn’t look forward to going home. My wife had put on weight, we hardly ever spoke, she always looked so miserable.
Little did I realise that I was the reason she was so down and depressed. I didn’t pay her any attention. I took her for granted. I was too busy wishing my life was more exciting, being romanced online, spending all of my free time thinking how I could get out.
I believed she didn’t love me. I convinced myself she never cared about me or my needs and wants and wishes, that all I was was a paycheck.
She spent her free time taking care of us -- our kids, making our suppers, doing out washing, making lunches, doing homework, projects, shuttling kids to sport, taking care of the pets they loved so much, their friends, and had a job of her own on top of it all.
Every time she spoke to me, all I heard was nagging and whining. But she was actually begging for my attention: a weekend away, a date night, a movie -- everything I ended up doing with Eve behind her back and after I left my family.
We argued and fought because we felt unheard by the other. And yet that was all we actually had to do – LISTEN – to each other!
I moved to another province with Eve. My now ex-wife got custody of our kids. I saw them every second weekend, the usual 'Dad' set up.
Life was sweet!
Eve and I had an amazing sex life. A connection I believed I never had with my ex. We had a large circle of friends. My family loved her. My kids liked her.
But my ex could never bring herself to meet Eve – she felt betrayed. I hated her even more! She was childish. She was mean. She never cared about me or my happiness. I didn’t care about my ex’s feelings when I posted photos of us on Facebook… I had Eve and a whole new life and it was fantastic!
We were together for about six or seven years but never married – we believed marriage was not our thing.
I believed that after 15 years with my ex, we’d given it all we could and our time together was up, there was nothing we could do to salvage our relationship or marriage. Eve was my future, Eve was who I should have been with all along.
Eventually, no matter how well we got along in the beginning; no matter how well I thought she “got” me; no matter how good the sex was; the “honeymoon” came to an end.
Eve and I started snapping at each other. Little fights here and there. I had a moment of pure realisation one night, at about 2am.
I realised that I missed the woman who created my first home and family. I realised that if I'd treated my ex-wife the way I’d treated Eve, used the hours I spend woo-ing Eve on my ex, she’d have bloomed.
If I’d stopped being negative about her and our relationship to my family and friends they wouldn’t have been so negative to her and she wouldn’t have pulled into herself and shied away.
She became someone I convinced myself I no longer knew or got along with because I never gave her the time and affection and attention she craved and deserved.
I thought I had, but when I got down and really thought about it I never really did. I never really let her in. I had ended my marriage years before with the simple decision that she was no longer who or what I wanted. And I’d convinced my family and friends the same – that she was no good for me!
Regret sets in
But I was wrong. I missed the best years of my kids lives. Missed being a family with them. I let their mother battle with raising them alone. Yes I helped financially, but a man living outside his family has no real idea what the costs are on the single mother. While Eve and I ate steaks on the weekends, my ex-wife was living on egg and toast.
And do you know that she never complained? She never demanded more money out of me. She never stopped me from seeing the kids. Never said no if I changed plans on her at the last minute. She gave up her weekends so that my mother could spend time with her grandchildren. She left me to get on with my life with Eve, even though it must have killed her.
Like any relationship, it had started out good – great in fact – but when it go bad I decided to leave… I walked out and divorced a woman who – and I can only see this now – would have done anything for me. But I’d told myself she wouldn’t or couldn’t.
My ex-wife stayed single for 8 years. She dated but never got involved. Her being single was also a kind of affirmation for me – that no one wanted her – that everything I’d decided she lacked, so did other men… She actually stayed single to focus on our children.
And then came the day she met Craig. I never thought it would bug me in any way if she got a boyfriend. I thought it would be great! But I was very wrong. I felt hurt. I felt jealous. I even felt angry and maybe betrayed.
She moved in with Craig, along with my kids. She set up a new home. A new family, with my kids… it was a very bitter pill to swallow.
I finally understood how she’d felt all these years. And it felt rotten.
I watched via Facebook and through conversations with our old mutual friends how Craig spoiled her and the kids. Their weekends were spent on the beach – he surfed with my son. They went hiking in the Burg. They went to Mauritius where he proposed on a kayak and she said yes -- they got married.
My daughter was a bridesmaid. My son was a groomsman. Craig’s parents and brother welcomed my ex-wife and children into their family. They told everyone how blessed they were to be gaining them as family.
She glowed with happiness. She radiated love and none of it was for me! My heart felt like it had been ripped out.
It should have been me.
Don’t be me. You think you will never be happy when you are in a rut. It is when you are there at your darkest that you need to grip down and try your hardest.
Today I live alone and still only see my kids occasionally. They are big now and harbour anger towards me for leaving them and their mother. Who can blame them?
Of all the things Eve was, she was never the mother of my children – my original true love."
*Names have been changed.
This story was submitted to YOU by one of our readers and has been minimally edited.
So many stories like this one.. will you stand? Will he/she realise? What will it take? Is it really worth it? The choice is YOURS..
Just my opinion, I've done a bit of reading on narcissism and inherently we all have some of those traits to a degree. There are some narcissist "tests" out there, but really just place you on a curve. Same as co-dependant. I think some of the WW syndrome is based on self centeredness... (My wife scores way up there now IMO, as she puts herself in front of everyone including our kids...)
FYI studies have shown narcissistic traits by population, have increased over time. Perhaps a reflection of society?
With the "let her go" theory, you should let go, she may change and want to come back as a better person, or she might not. However either way your better off...
I still had a 90 day refill available on the anti-depressants so I filled that today, hoping that it will help calm down the extreme lows I find myself in whenever my mind wanders to my W. I got the report today confirming the A, so if I wanted to file, I can do that. But, I just have a mental block against it. I just want to make sure I get joint custody of my son, and our state is heavily pro-mom, so if I do file, and she decides to fight instead of agreeing, I could end up only seeing my son every other weekend and a couple hours during the week when it's not my weekend, and that would absolutely kill me.
At the same time, she's moved on and it feels unfair that I should have to sit by and wait until nearly next summer to be able to even THINK about moving on. My faith and my personal convictions won't let me be with anyone else while I'm still married, even if SHE is. Why should I have to live through another anniversary, now that I know our last one was already a lie?
In regards to my goals with H, I met my goal of him asking my whereabouts when I went out. I think my next goal will be that he would rather spend time at the house on his "night out" rather than go out. We'll see how tonight goes. He initiated wanting to have this finances/au pair meeting, and I asked him if we would have time or if he was going to go out. He said he'd probably just take a walk in the neighborhood, but that was it. We'll see what happens.
you are much too attached yet... in my opinion, your words here show you to be controlling... his night out is his night out, and you need to get to a place where you are not concerned with it... don't slip in comments and questions, fishing for information, such as, "will we have time or are you going out?" you should be focusing on YOUR NIGHT OUT... and your night out should not be you "staying in."
take this opportunity to grow in new ways, be interested in new things, subjects, people... it must be REAL... show him an interesting, INTERESTED, lively, lovely you... don't whittle your time away waiting for him to throw you a crumb here and there... want more for yourself!
Maybe, Steve, but it could just be her listing things out... not planning, just listing. I imagine she's just weighing out what she wants, and then is trying to just see if it's possible.
That said, on another positive note, I got asked on a double date around lunch time, about the time I finished posting about the list above. She called me, cheery as can be, and told me her and one of our friends were talking about binge watching a show that is one of W's favorite ones of all time this weekend (MTV's Oddities: The Maxx, for those who remember it). W and I had also been talking about cooking up some crab legs this weekend, as I would like to try eating them again to see if I like them now (again, trying new things weekly). She said as her and our friend were talking, she had an idea for a "Crabby to the Maxx" party, where we would join our friend and her boyfriend (who is my best friend), make crab legs, and binge the show. The point in all of this being, she purposely chose to include me in something that she didn't have to, and still wanted to do what we had planned together.
Combined with the list, my head is kinda spinning right now. We went from her saying last night that she is still unsure/afraid of our MR blowing up to finding a list like that and a planned double date? I want to believe that these are signs of a positive turn, but I don't want to set myself up for heartbreak, either.
Working my way through her list, I see some things I've already begun doing- exercise, food, less TV, spirituality, learning, relationships (at least, in terms of learning what to do and not to do to keep relationships strong), and some things I have already expressed wanting to do. Some of the items could mean something else (does time alone mean time alone individually, together like date nights/trips, or both?), some I'm not sure what exactly she means in terms of context (personal accountability to and for who/what?), and some of the items would require us to come up with actionable steps together.
I dunno... just trying not to get my hopes up too far...
When I confronted her re: OM1 I drove her to his front door. Even there she said she had no idea what I was talking about. The lying is the hard part. I have no idea what shes thinking. I think, she thinks since she BD, now its ok for her to do so....
I'm waiting, if she does file, I'll need her to be in a non pissed off state, since my lawyer says I'd loose majorly on the money/house front. I've already pleged to myself I'm only going to keep quiet in the interm, if she R or till D. Other wise I'm going to make sure both OM1 & 2's wives know whats going on...
WOW.....well you did the right thing in holding it together. I hope I can muster up the same strength when it comes my turn. Usually my EW and I sit together with one of our children at our other kids activities. There is a part of me that does not want to be those parents who sit 100 yards away from each other and forces our child that is not participating to make a choice. Not sure though what kind of message it sends if we still all sit together with BF there as well. I guess it is personal decision but my initial thoughts are to not let the BF dictate what I am and am not going to do.