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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
29 minutes ago
Thanks for your feedback everyone. It really helps.

I dropped off the kids at Hís Monday night. He was exceptionally sweet and kind to me. Gave me a big hug and asked me to stay for dinner, which I did. After the kids went to bed we talked on the couch. He held my hand and looked me in the eye and kept giving me that look he used to when we were together and in love. He said he was sorry he got angry. He said he was just trying to enjoy his weekend. He told me he loved me several times. I know we both wanted to sleep together but didnít.

He had the kids the next day and he sent me a text in the afternoon asking how I was. We actually had a normal conversation about each of our days like we used to when we were together. That evening I went out with friends. I get a text from him at 9:30 pm asking if Iím going to get ďlaidĒ tonight. Ugh. Here I thought the kind man I knew was coming around. But nope, crude, jealous, crazy H was back.

Today I had the kids so, of course, radio silence. Though I know heís on a business trip but still, I expected it. He emailed a couple mediators and ccíd me to get an intro meeting scheduled.

I swear Iím going to get whiplash with his constant personality changes.

I see him Monday for my sonís parent teacher conference. After that, I wonít see him for almost two weeks due to the holiday schedule and a business trip of his. Iím going on vacation while he has the kids for Thanksgiving. He keeps asking what my plans are and with who but itís none of his business. Itís driving him crazy. I plan not to reach out to him. Wish me luck and strength to do that and not get weak and wonder what heís doing when I donít hear from him.
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Midlife Crisis
1 hour ago
Hi Peace :-)
yes you are right.. fear would prevent her and facing it all is a huge challenge and wall I'm sure. They way things are going XW is not helping any future reach out by the girls any time soon.

So tomorrow her lawyer will present both parties, I signed the document to lower her child support payments. D18 singed her part to prove she is in school and not splurging on her college savings.

I was told to update XW on D16 health condition by her lawyer. So I did.

EX , D16 had another episode in gym today. The school nurse said D16 really over exerted herself and was feeling faint. Dehydration playing a huge role. D16 had an anxiety attack and I rush to the school from work and took her home.
This has nothing to do with her brain cyst that so far is not a real concern. Yearly scans will monitor it and so far so good.

EX responded.

YOU DO NOT CONTACT ME. if the girls want to they can anytime. You only contact me if their life is in peril.
And if you ask for any other money in the future it will be no. I will pay 50/50 if the girls contact me in some sort of way.
I however won't contact them. They need to do the first move.

So I sat back and read that message over and over. Who is this woman? I am not sure I will share this with the girls as D18 just went through her mother using a lawyer against her to find out her financial status.

Tomorrow I'll wake up and nothing will have changed except the fact that I will have a little less empathy for the mother of my children. It is slowly disappearing and soon it will be gone entirely.
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For Newcomers
1 hour ago
Grace you took the words right out of my mouth. grin No apology needed.

Rose, I see you edited your initial post, tempering it a bit. I assume for clarification.

I don't know why you would reference a serious disorder like this. I'm going to default to the idea that it was in an effort to be helpful. Thank you.

Calling my style a "very rigid style of communication" and "It seems rigid, and cold, and exhausting," seems exaggerated and very judgmental.
Especially since we have never spoken.

I may be succinct in my descriptions and recommendations, but that is intentional. It is an effort to avoid any confusions. (apparently, I sometimes still get misinterpreted). But written communication like this forum makes it difficult to express emotional nuances. Emojis help. Still, the reader naturally adds there own cognitive bias and things can come across the wrong way. A description of an event may be summarized and lose its cadence and clarity.
It is best to question what may seem to be a harsh claim before rushing to judgment.

Especially since the basis of this forum is to help each other. smile
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For Newcomers
1 hour ago

Good job! You did well.

When you do need to talk, use as many I statements as possible. Avoid YOU statements.

"I need to to think about what you have said"
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Midlife Crisis
1 hour ago
Job - she did take me up on it. She asked the boys and I if we could come see her. We were going to bring her dinner tonight, but we got snow and the roads were bad, so she didn't want us to try. But she did ask if we could could come see her tomorrow. So we will see what happens - same thing with bringing her dinner since she is sore and tired and not moving around a bunch. Let you all know how it goes.
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For Newcomers
1 hour ago
Burned...I'm truly sorry for your living conditions. But, when I read it, my first thought was I hope my H finds just as annoying living conditions if he chooses to continue the separation after November. I sometimes wish he was miserable.
34 550 Read More
Midlife Crisis
2 hours ago

Thank you exquisitobe.

I agree. They do not think like we do. I was just hoping that maybe...just maybe...she was done with being crazy. Even my sons understand why I can't be friends. I told her YEARS AGO that there will never be a friendship as long as she is with OM.

I've often wondered if she has felt any guilt. Sometimes, I doubt it.

I think some of it may have to do with the fact that my older brother is still friends with his XW and sees her quite often. Also, XW's sister is also friendly with both of her XH's. Of course situations are different, but they are still friendly.

"Appearance" has always been important to XW as well and I'm sure that she would like it to "appear" that we are still on speaking terms.

I've read that some in MLC eventually wake up and some don't. I am beginning to think that XW will be one that doesn't. Sad.

Thank you for the very nice words too! smile

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Midlife Crisis
3 hours ago
Yes, sometimes it takes some time. Stay steady and let her hang herself with the rope.
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Midlife Crisis
3 hours ago
PsySara, thanks for checking in. Given your particular specialty, it is concerning that you see cause for concern. Don't know if you recall, but he is a member of yours and your H's profession. I am very concerned about hurting him at work. I still don't think he is NPD. I think his stress has exacerbated some narcissistic traits and perhaps created a character trap. I think he is BPD and massively PA and the fear of abandonment/loss is freaking him out. He is very subtle about everything he does, and relatively careful about limiting his exposure to being revealed, but there are definitive things I can use against him if need be. I think he filed for divorce to keep OW2 happy as part of a deal to move in with her (I think he couldn't keep the demons at bay alone anymore), but now the days are ticking by and he is getting worried that I am not trying to stop the divorce or beg him to stop it.

One fact I found disturbing. I have long suspected that the daily texts (and more recently calls) to the kids were about me. I just found it odd that he would do it and not ask to see them and the content was often something that only I would get. Once I contacted him about a stupid letter his lawyer sent (I predicted he would use the case to up the ante when I did not respond to the other stuff), he stopped contacting the kids for a week. He had really been spinning and calling (unusual) and never did talk to them, hear from them, or see them, but then suddenly he stopped when he heard from me. I think that by my reaching out to him calmly and asking him to meet with me to wrap up the issues in the divorce before year end satisfied whatever had him spinning. He said he would meet me, and then claimed to be busy for a face-to-face meeting and asked for a call to set up a framework before meeting in person (he's had a draft 24 page agreement for two years--no need for a call on framework).

If I'm not mistaken, Cluster B's struggle hugely between October and January. I'm just hoping to get through this period without much more drama.
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Surviving the Big D
3 hours ago
Hi D...yeah, I don't hide stuff from the board but thank you! She is on Valtrex so I do understand there is a 2% risk based on 104 sex acts per year that I may have caught something. Wake up call, yes for sure. I cant be naive in this dating world as it is a learning experience. But yeah she was totly into me and left my house crying today. I feel bad, really bad but I just cant knowingly take the risk. Definitely a wake up call and who knows what really happened as I only know her what she has told me. She also said this is the first time someone had a problem with it.
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For Newcomers
4 hours ago
Be the lighthouse man!

8 81 Read More
For Newcomers
4 hours ago
Originally Posted by neffer
Just manage expectations W. There is not a black or white solution. And there is nothing definitive. Each road chosen needs a sacrifice to be made. You must work on yourself no matter what happens at the meeting. PMA man!

Wishing the best outcome for you and your family W!

Thanks so much for the support and kind words. It will be a long road to R. That Iím sure of. And it probably has to be in order for it to last. We both have a lot of work to do and Iíve already started down the path to become a better person. Im doing it regardless of the outcome.

I hear you about managing expectations. Iím definitely trying to. Iím hopeful, but also realize that there is a pretty good chance sheís too far gone for anything to change her mind and feelings. I really donít understand how or why and probably will never know or understand.
37 367 Read More
Surviving the Big D
4 hours ago
I'm 62 and guys STILL say they wish they could make a baby with me! Even though that ship has OBVIOUSLY sailed!

I think it's often less about the reality of a child (in fact, almost never) and more about some he-man notion of impregnating a woman, OR some wistful romantic "gee we would have had beautiful kids" kind of thing.

All that being said though, new guy's comment as pretty direct, it's worth paying attention to whether he really is a guy who seriously wants another child.
96 2,565 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:37 PM
Yeah... even more importantly, I suspect it's the ONLY real option.
37 933 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by Chris73
I am constantly reminded of how many parenting obstacles we could easily overcome if we were still together....

Emotionally, we no longer have the luxury of a family unit managed by two adults at the same time. The stress on everyone is doubled. Each parent has twice as much work to do and rarely can they rely on the other for immediate help. Plus there will always be things that one parent is better at than the other, but there's no way to "tag out".

Sometimes I feel as if my ex is giving off mixed signals. Lately we've been getting along well. It's definitely more cordial than full blown friendship.

Man, I get you regarding the obstacles that could be easily overcome if we were still together. This is one of the things I miss most... working together as a team for the benefit of the kids, me doing what I'm good at, and letting her do the things she's good at.

Mixed signals.... I'm trying to ignore them. Steve was right when he told me that when she wants to R, you will KNOW. Until then, I'm just going try to move along.
76 5,000 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by Vapo
Hmm, Jim, I sense a lot of pent-up anger in you. laugh

Not anger. (sniff) I still cry when I think about it. (sniff) (wipe tear)

32 667 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by RR17
Mindful Meditation is a good way to separate our thoughts from ourselves. Try it. It helped me.

I do pray a lot. It's helped quite a bit. I've never hear of Mindful Meditation. I'll do some reading up on it. Might be just the thing to clear my head.

Originally Posted by RR17
Don't be a victim of your own rumination. It's not healthy and makes DB 10X worse. Add it to your GAL.

This is exactly what it makes me. A victim. Perpetuates the Woe is me, why me, why did he thoughts. That's toxic. I am doing this to myself, and it won't change anything H is thinking, doing, feeling. I will work harder to push the thoughts aside and not let them take a life of their own.

Originally Posted by FlySolo
Until then GAL, detach and, well, fake it.

I am a firm believer that feelings follow actions. Several people have said they can't believe I'm doing as well as I am. I tell them what choice do I have? Wallowing in self-pity is useless. So, I carry on as though nothing significant has happened in my life. No one at work even has a clue I'm separated. They will be shocked I'm sure when they find out. Carrying on as though nothing has changed in my life has really helped over the last month.!

I appreciate everyone's support!
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:37 PM
Back from MC.

That was fun. Basically 45 minutes of W firing off complaints like a howitzer. C actually stopped her at one point and said to focus on big 'themes' that may have occurred, but W was not to be deterred. I think I said 5 words the whole session. And when we were leaving, W says to me 'are you ok? you seemed a little quiet in there.' Yeah, no [censored].

I guess this was a necessary part of the process though. I gotta say, when W told me a few months ago that there may be too much damage over the years, now I know what she was talking about. 7 sessions in and we barely even mentioned any issues I've had with W over the years, let alone a little thing called her EA.

Oh well.
7 188 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by kiwi
So now I have Saturday for myself with no plans so far and Sunday plans don’t work out,

If nothing pans out Saturday, go out and pamper yourself (facial, nails, massage). You will be surprised how much better you feel after. Also, go buy a good book (The art of not giving a [censored] is an excellent read) and sit in a coffee shop. It will seem weird at first, but it gets you out of the house. The emptiness is overwhelming the first few times the kids are away, but eventually, you will learn to love the quietness of it and the fact that you can do whatever the [censored] you like (stay in your PJs and watch rubbish telly, dance around the kitchen in your underpants, whatever). The time is yours and no-one is going to tell you how to spend it.
61 1,454 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:01 PM
Oh jeez. I wouldn't have responded to that text. When she was going on and on about how she shouldn't have called I'd probably have just said "OK, that's no problem".

I answered because she had S with her, it was 11:45 at night, and I don't trust her judgment.

When she went on and on...I DID basically say OK, no problem and get off the call.
28 435 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by Steve85


The things you should be doing are the same. Detaching. Learn to be okay on your own! GAL. Don't be so wrapped up in your primary relationship. GAL is UBER important, so double-down on it. Look at your own toxic behavior and 180 on it.

Either you WAW, Or WW. Or W w/MLC will come around or she won't. Your focus is on YOURSELF, not on HER.

This was on R2C's quote page. Just change the W with H & her with him and it should all be 100% relevant.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:53 PM
The children are on H's private medical. I don't want to bring it up with him again because he will see that as me trying to guilt him into coming back. He has the children tomorrow evening and up to Saturday night so, depending on how she is with him, he might bring it up himself. If he does, then I will say, that I would be very supportive of her seeing a counsellor. If he does not bring it up, then I guess I will look into one myself and just pay the fees.

DjV - I will look into groups in the area. Thank you for the advice.


Today I have some a non H related update. I went to a Reiki healer. I have never been to one before, but thought it was worth a shot. This crises has made me look inwards a lot and I've discovered a new found interest in the spiritual. Anyway, I looked online on my way in this morning, found one a stones throw away from work, who by chance had one open appointment today, and it seemed a little too serendipitous, so I booked there and then.

It was the strangest thing. I lay on a bed for 40 minutes with my eyes shut and he put his hands on different parts of my body. There was some slight manipulation, but mostly he kept his hands still. For the last 3 or 4 months whenever I meditate my body starts to convulse. Scared the hell out of me at first, but now I just go with it. Anyway, I went into a meditate state and my body started convulsing. Not the manic convulsions I have when I am on my own, but, because I didn't want him to think I was a freak, slightly smaller convulsions. Whenever it happened he would push down gently on whatever part of my body he was working on. At the end he touched my shoulder lightly (he told me he would do this when it was time to open my eyes). We then spoke for about half an hour.

Apparently, and I guess this will come as no surprise to anyone reading this ... I am too much in my head (all my energy is in my head and none of it is flowing down to other areas of my body, I have a blockage in my tummy area (he named the chakra but I can't remember now) which means family, my right knee is slightly out indicating (relationship issues with a male). I also have a blockage in my throat area (problems communicating). Oh, and I have a beautiful heart, but it is closed off at the moment. He is explained what he thought the convulsions were, but that was just a little weird even for me. He said a couple of other things non-H related which hit home with me too.

I am not sure how much faith I have in it. But we did not talk about what was happening in my life at all. I simply lay down, he touched various parts of my body, and then we talked about where there were blockages.

Anyway, a weird day. I will go back though because I feel slightly energized as I type this.

D12 seems to be better this evening. She was laughing and smiling again. I let her practice French plats on me and we discussed her football training. D9 is always happy (though she comes out with the most random observations/questions about me and H).

I got two texts from H today. One informing me that his sister was picking up the girls tomorrow and asking me to let the school now and another again telling me that his sister is picking up the girls tomorrow and asking me to pass her phone number to D12. These were lengthy but logistical related texts. I have not responded to either. I scrolled through my text history with him for the last few weeks and his are all lengthy, mine are all one liners (yes, no, I will be there at ...). For a moment I considered increasing my communication to 'friendly chatter' but in light of my decision to double down on Db'g I will stick with my current approach.

PS - Today, I think is a good day.

44 646 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 09:34 PM
Hi Gerda.

What you wrote about your thoughts regarding it being obvious our spouses rejections was not personal and trying to put yourself in that same place really spoke to me. I "know" that my Ws rejection of me is not personal towards me, but "knowing" and KNOWING aren't always the same thing. Ot maybe a better way to say it is knowing vs accepting. Thank you for that!

I kind of agree with Job regarding the gift. I would just say thank you and leave it at that. You are a caring, compassionate, and kind woman. Saying thank you for a gift is something you would say to anyone. You would just be treating H like more, no less.

And because it lifted my spirits knowing that you think of me (us) when trying to wrap your head around things, please know that I also think of you the same way. I think we have all bonded together in our misery and out of it has come something beautifully unexpected...a friendship in the most unlikely of places. I'm glad to have met you!!

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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:33 PM

...all cheaters lie.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:07 PM
Torn I just saw your posts today. I wrote a rather lengthy response and then had some kind of computer error......and lost it. So, I'll try to shorten this one by saying that it seems you have really been on the ball doing a lot of things that indicate you are moving onward, detaching, GAL, etc.

Can you tell us why your kids are saying they don't want to live with their mother? What are their ages? As I'm sure you know, even with full custody, she would still have them sometimes, and they would still be affected by her emotional detachment from them. As the "sane" parent, you have to do what you can to protect them. Just know that most (not all) WW's will fight to the death to prevent their H from getting full custody. Not b/c she really wants the kids that much, but b/c she doesn't want him to win. So, if you should decide to go for full custody, be prepared to die on that battle hill, b/c there's little chance of returning to a MR with her. You have to do what you think is best for your kids, and with your lawyer's legal advice......always. With the painful emotions you are experiencing, it's easy for it to influence your decisions. How could it not? So, it's good to have an outside source to give advice based on their experience, profession, etc.

In my series of threads about the mindset of the WW, I shared my opinion of how it's better if the father (the head of the family) remains in the marital bedroom and marital home. However, there are some cases where that's not possible. I agree that the WW should experience consequences of her decisions/actions. Even MWD says that in most cases, some type of loss has to be experienced, in order to influence her in the right direction. When she is in open rebellion, having a PA, etc., then the H usually has to make some hard decisions...Ö..if he wants to have self-respect and hopes to ever have a chance of her respecting him as a man....much less as her H. It may already be past that point with you, IDK. So, whatever you decide about moving, make sure all your ducks are in order, so it won't come back to bite you. IDK if you own your current home, or plan to buy another one...Ö.but please, get legal advice about all of that stuff. We can give you our opinions/advice about the relationship matter, but when it comes to finances and legal matters......get it from the lawyers. And, don't ever trust a WW to do the "right thing" or "be fair".

I am strongly opposed to "in-house" separation, b/c it doesn't work. I've been active on this board for a little over eleven years now, and have never seen one case where it worked. On the other hand, I have seen cases where the couple physically separated and were later able to reconcile. One case on the board happened to be a couple who were both counselors. She was in a PA, even moved to another town, and they shared a little daughter. I'll try to remember to post you the link of the H's thread, b/c it was a success story. The point is that the WW has to believe she's lost/losing her H.....for real. As long as he continues being part of her life, she doesn't really feel the loss. She can tell when it's for real. People say, "Well, you share children, so you'll always be a part of her life". No, you have the same kids, but you don't have to share her life. There's a difference. Make a life for yourself.

As I think someone has previously stated, personalities often make a difference in how badly a WW acts. I haven't read your entire story yet, but it sounds like your WW is off and running. Some WW's are bullies. Some are spoiled, and have a sense of entitlement. Some are mean. Most are manipulators. All of them will check the H's emotional attachment temperature (temp check). All of them are angry at the H. All of them feel justified in doing what they do.....and blame the H for it. And, as one of my favorite people use to say...Ö...all cheaters lie.

Don't know if I addressed anything you wanted to know, but I'll find your thread and post more there.
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