A 2 / 2 / 3 was what was suggested from L—LMFT suggested that that might be too much change, that it’s too abrupt, and too much shuttling.
FWIW I am currently favoring a 3-4-4-3 schedule as I would have the kids the same days of the week every week, with only one day rotating. I feel like its good consistency and stability for them to know where they are on each particular day of the week. As part of this I want to split the weekends in half and get one day each. Weekends are the best quality time for me and I don't want to wait 2 weeks to get it, I want it every week. Can't say I will like not having the kids for 4 days straight every other week, but I think any sort of 2-2-3 sched might be too much back and forth for me and a 7-7 sched is way too long at my kids' ages (7 and 4) so the 3-4-4-3 is a decent in between.
My kids have told me they would be ok with a stepmom. Again, I am not on the well travelled path and unsure of how helpful anything I share will be.
My kids and I have discussed many things. First kiss, first heart break, first drink, BF, GF, dating, staying over, getting a hotel room, and even trying drugs. (For anyone reading along who doesnít know me, I have four kids not just one busy one)
Regarding their Mom, we have discussed their anger, disappointment, feeling betrayed, abandonment, and desire to live with me. MLC, compassion, love, hope, forgiveness have all been talked about and are openly accepted.
We do not speak poorly or badly about W as a person. Her behaviour is recognized as poor, even immoral. However the person is hurting and hurt people hurt people. OM for the most part gets similar treatment.
They have all found detachment and indifference as well, releasing their anger and letting go, following my lead so it seems.
With all this, their relationship with their Mom is theirsí, not mine. I have run into their boundary regarding their Mom and what they wish to discuss, or more accurately when they wish to discuss. They want to talk, it just takes time for them to get to that point. If I asked to soon, I know it - there is an instant change in them. However, when enough time has elapsed all are quite chatty about their feelings and whatever they have seen or heard.
I put the cause of the delay to indifference. They are not as mature as I, and have not spent as much time in their emotional cars. A perfectly normal and reasonable response for teens and young adults.
When one comes home from a visit with Mom and OM (if he is around, btw no one really wants to see or deal with him), they do not want to talk about it. You have probably seen something like that Iím sure.
If more than one kids visits, like all five a Christmas, they all come back chatting and laughing and will talk right away.
As I said, indifference, their wall, their protection. They cannot raise and lower it quickly like their old man. It takes time, and time to process their feelings. Their emotional maturity can be seen with their quickness in recovery and discussions. The order from most to least is S21, GF20, S20, D16, and S18. D16 and S18 are basically tied most days. Their walls are needed more when alone; while in a group they can respond to and support each other and the need for indifference is less.
I am pretty sure some form of indifference is extended to me as well. They are teens and young adults after all. So that also explains some of the reluctance for conversing at different times.
Again, not sure how helpful that may be. Perhaps you see similar patterns with S24.
At any rate, if I were to say to any of them, I have a date on Wednesday and wonít be home for supper, I would not expect a sour face and donít tell me about your love life. Depending on the mood of the kid in question I would get at worse a bland neutral grunt all the way to OMG, who is she, what does she look like, is it WL from work, etc...
S24ís response, to me, suggests he is troubled by something. I do not believe it to be directly about your love life, that is just handy. It probably is related to relationships in some fashion - his most likely. Empathy is a skill that is gained and learned, and young people are self first, so it stands to reason that his reaction is about himself. An empathic negative response from S24 is unwarranted and unlikely given his age.
For now just let him know you wonít be home. As more and more dates happen, he will come around. He will ask/talk when he is ready.
I would not push for anything. I don't think the comments I gave to you late last week in text ever got posted here. I can't mind read any better than anyone else so all I can go by is putting myself in Ms shoes - sorta like Joseph. That whole Love ya, need ya thing for me is a step on in the way to I love you. As I said in text I've used it myself in various forms. It's not bad. It's a step on the road and certainly in the right direction. I think your cousin amd friend are picking up on this. Could M have planned not to fully say it and reacted to you. For sure that could be the case but even if it is, again it's not bad. Baby steps that are clearly in the direction you are hoping for. The thing is, any pressure here could be the old one step forward two steps back. Don't risk that. Let him take his pace. The sentiment is real. The whole meeting his son thing is real. It's all good. Don't let your cousin scare you. Yes they may be right deep down but if they are that only means he's not fully there yet. He will be. And when he is he will say it - no matter if that's months weeks or days away. Until then, love ya is better and further along than I really like you.
Good to hear you are doing well and being the rock for the kids. Sounds like a great update overall. Definitely looks like you got a full plate of things to do.
Sorry to hear about the kids playing D. They're going to mimic and pick up on what they see and hear. Some of it will mean nothing and others you will have to make sure they understand what is/isn't appropriate. You did right with explaining the wrongs of the sitch and I think it was okay to reach out to xW. Sorry to hear that she laughed about it.
Your GAL sounds awesome. I have a brother who goes skiing with a close friend of mine every year. They take a group trip and I've never gone before. Came close to taking the kids before my youngest one screamed his head off from being scare of the plane ride. Was the last time we flew for any trips. How is night skiing? Never really heard of that.
Man 177 pounds and building muscle? I was 5 ' 10, 175 lean muscle wearing size 32 back in my hay day. Vibes, pheromones, confidence, whatever you want to call it, they can tell.
So today my W asks me if I would be ok moving into her condo if things work out between us, until we figure out where we will buy a house. She apparently doesn't like the house we currently own...
This weekend is her weekend with our Son and it's his bday on Friday. She said maybe we should hang out together on the weekend as a family but she would still go home and sleep in her bed.
Up and Down like a Yo-yo. I don't know if she's planning on leaving when he goes to bed or if she wants to hang out together a bit before she leaves but since it's her weekend with him I feel like he should sleep at her place so he can get used to it.
Is she softening? Is her Condo single life not as glamorous as she hoped?
I feel like I need to stay pretty neutral and let her do the talking...don't put too much stock into what she says right now.
I went to french class last Saturday, we learned the vocabularies of various stages of human life; the childhood, the teenage and adulthood... In french, there are the words that indicate the rebel of youth - 'la crise d'adolescence'.
Our teacher asked if you were calm or rebelled ? I then think of what my mother-in-law once told me that husband was extremely quiet (and so oppressive) when he was in his youth... his parents fought each other in front of the kids all the time, I mean real fight. I don't want to think any further.
I won't believe this midlife crisis things not until I became the eye witness of it. I prayed that Lord would pour His love into husband's heart and have him healed from the trauma he had.
Sorry M as you know I went through this about a year ago. I still have not met my Xw bf and when it first happened mine went down about the exact same way. I told her I had no desire to meet him partially because at that time I was not emotionally ready and second because I told her that I trusted her that she would not just bring anyone into their lives. That if she felt he was a good person, etc. then he was good with me. Crappy that she told you via text and not in person.
Just remember that you will be eventuality doing the same and you will want her to show you the same level of respect.
The dates turned into practice because they didnít work out. If they had and it had turned into a R I wouldnít have considered it practice. I didnít knowningly take a date with the assumption it was practice.
I echo what everyone else has said Monkey. I wish I had REALLY followed their advice right from the beginning but I just had too difficult a time managing my own feelings in his presence. Be prepared to hear the worst. He means what he says to you so donít dismiss it and DO NOT try to talk him out of it. Just listen and validate. Also... do NOT try to physically touch him, hug him or kiss him. This was a mistake I made in the very beginning when my H was waffling and I thought he was coming back. It backfired. It only reminded him that he wasnít feeling that way towards me and further pushed him away. So prepare yourself. Have some phrases you can used memorized. Try not to get emotional. That will just make him feel guilty and not want to be around you. Be happy but not too happy. If you can adopt the mindset that you are being visited by a neighbour you are reasonably fond of... you are polite, congenial, interested but not overly. This is going to feel strange and counterintuitive but have faith that it is the right thing to do and the only chance you have of saving your marriage and saving yourself. Your situation sounds very savable but you need to give him time and space and work on yourself. Donít tell him you are doing this...show him by your actions. He has to remember the reasons he fell in love with you in the first place but he wonít do that if you make him feel uncomfortable and guilt-ridden for leaving. You can do this!!! (((HUGS)))
Fortunately, I've taken steps to ensure that just about anything she could throw at me will fall flat.
Just going to keep trying to get this done.
W did actually reschedule S's therapy visit this week to her day. That will help keep her from claiming extra days. Not that I'm stingy, but I found out she's been telling people she has more parenting days than I do, which isn't true at all. So I'm going to hold her to the rules (of course, within reason). As soon as I get orders, I'm going to file for child support, which will help our situation drastically, plus send a very clear message that I'm not going to waste time playing her games.
The thing is, their relationship was built on a foundation of cheating, lies, and deceit. Nothing good in the long term will grow out of this. We may well end up divorced now and I have to deal with that maturely with my solicitor, however in time, as the fantasy comes to an end, as real life kicks in, the same problems she had will appear in this relationship. She hasn't had any period of reflection or worked on herself. She's guided by her emotions and self-preservation. One day this will all be over, I will probably have moved on by then and met someone new and fingers crossed be happy. It's then, I will probably hear from her. Maybe, then maybe not.
Everything you said here is 100% correct. It's called Karma and is a law in the universe just like gravity.
Originally Posted by Manta
I just want to be happy and this cloud of sadness/pain to leave me. I have been through enough in my life, besides my marriage falling apart.
I have been doing a good hob latelu at not making myself so readily availablr. Last night she initiated a convo with me and we talked for a bit before I pushed her to the side and focused all my attention on mu Daughter. I am doing alot better at just staying the F away from the wife. But her lil 4ft10in self can sneak into anything it seems. I believe i am making her jealous by doing more stuff. I devoted my life to my children when we were together I quit hanging out with my friends I made my family my number one priority. Now since the split everything that hindered my growth is noy around anymore. On a daily basis i am taking out my old baggage. Meeting new people going out. I started playing pool again. I just grt a hint of jealousy when she randomly text's me about stuff she already has an answer for specially when its at 2am in the morning. I could be over thinking it. Life has been going well I am happy 90% of the time. That 10% lingers abouy but it never stays to long.
I know I am behind, so I may touch on things that have already been discussed.
Now I'm back in the MBR we have been going to bed early together and watching tv, she has been very slowly moving closer to me, culminating in her initiating sex the other night.
This has happened exactly 300 days since BD but still with no R talk. I'm sure her EA is over and it seems that she has stopped all disrespectful and rebellious behavior. I know she still has a lot of internal work to do regarding her resentment towards me but this is definitely going in the right direction.
You know, Lusa, when we say no R talk, we don't mean to imply that you are to NEVER speak of the relationship again. We stress "no R talk" so much, I guess people think it is off the table even if they are trying to reconcile. However, I think your problem here is that you don't know where the MR stands. Like some other board members, you are stuck in limbo b/c you don't feel like it is really a reconciliation, but you are in the MBR and having sex.....and she's being nicer.
If you have waited on your W to bring up the things you feel need to be discussed.......she may NEVER go there. Why? B/c most WW's don't desire to talk about their betraying, lying, deceitful, sneaky, unfaithful, backstabbing, selfish, disrespectful, rebellious, resentful.........(do I need to go on?)..........wayward behavior. She doesn't have a problem talking about how you made mistakes in the past, but she doesn't want to have her's pointed out. I'm just saying that after nearly a year, and you moved successfully into the MBR.........and having sex.........don't you feel there has been some point in time that the elephant in the room should have been addressed? Maybe I haven't read far enough yet, so have you told her what you would need in order to really reconcile? If not, then IMHO, it's as if you are hanging suspended between heaven and hell. IDK......it's just me wondering if that is okay with you. I was asked to give my thoughts on another similar sitch, and afterwards, I have decided that person had rather keep things suspended rather than follow the suggestions given. I also saw someone who was set in their ways for many years, and just between us......I felt like that was the problem for not following the advice. Anyway......I don't want to see this MR stay in the condition until both people are too set in their ways to change.
Another reason I believe it is important to know where the relationships stands at the point, is so you will know whether or not to continue following the 37 rules. Once the couple reconciles and is piecing the M back together, the 37 rules are put aside. I have a thread (with BluWave contributing) to those things to follow during Piecing. But currently, you can't really define your MR as in Piecing, can you? Has your WW told you she no longer wants to end the M, or get a D or whatever she may have originally said?
No wonder my WW doesn't want to talk or consider R, preferring to just rug-sweep and pretend. It is because she is still deeply in love with OM, and unfortunately as this is her ex H, with shared history I don't think she's ever going to get over it.
She writes notes before talking to him, I've seen a few before and posted them here. Unfortunately I snooped yesterday and found another note, they are always around cutting off contact, and this is in response to cutting off contact.
This is not just another man. it's her XH. Do they have children together? You have children with her, and she's willing to wait till they leave home to reunite with her XH? That's not love, that's a fantasy! If she went back to him, she'd want you as her OM.
I have been thinking about this for a long time and so finally said that I can't make decisions on these sort of things when we haven't discussed reconciling and she hasn't committed to doing what she can to make things work. She responded with something along the lines of we are getting on much better so I reiterated that the verbal commitment from her and our joint decision to R will have to come before any other discussions on our future. She made it clear she understood so I am really pleased I finally got this point said after all this time.
Great! But you can't leave it there. Has she made a verbal commitment? If so, hold her to it by requiring that both of you attend therapy for couples dealing with emotional affair with previous spouses. I mean, I'm sure other things will be addressed, but XH is the ELEPHANT.
I've been re-reading Sandi's threads and I am seeing that she would be happy to slide under the door, rug sweep and pick up from where we left off. I'm so pleased I have become aware enough to not let this happen. I require commitment and honesty from my wife and I'm not ashamed to hold out for both or eventually choose to D if they are not forthcoming.
I'm so happy those threads have helped you. I do want to look back at list you made.
I'm aware of the huge amount of work we both need to do for a successful R and currently doubtful that she will ever make it through this long list.
Continue NC with OM - Absolutely, but there needs to be a "how-to plan"......like transparency. Initiate R Talk - I addressed this earlier in the post. You may go the rest of your life, if you wait for her to address the elephant in the room. You've been living a lie, b/c you have not addressed her affair and have allowed her to rug sweep. Want/Agree to R - I thought you said she had committed? Either she is in or out.....can't have it both ways. Attend MC (for the right reasons) - That is a requirement you should make to staying in the MR. Tell the truth about her EA - I don't think she will, without either the MC forcing the issue or you reveal you know the truth. Feel true remorse - That is her inner work. You can require an apology from her. You can require her to show respect. You cannot require that she has particular feelings. It's kind of like inner spiritual work she has to do. Lose her resentment - You can require that she not demonstrate resentment in how she talks/actions/attitude, which follows alongside of showing respect. You can't require her not to feel resentment. Again, those are feelings that she will need to work out. Hopefully, MC can help with it. Send permanent end message to OM - That should have already been a requirement issued by you. Has your knowledge of her EA always been a secret? Offer a transparency plan - Well, I would say "require" it. She has to be accountable, make atonement....if you will. It's not right for her to just expect you to trust her when she has proven she is untrustworthy.
So actually, most of this is work she will have to do. Your part is enforcing those things that aren't considered as her feelings. This is your life. You have a say about it. Why would keep closed lip about her cheating and her pretending everything was simply honky-dory? She blamed everything on YOU. Isn't that why you were left......b/c you were under the assumption you were the problem? To this day, you have not opened your mouth about the real issue....which was her EA? I'm not suggesting you did not have things to change about yourself, but the TRUTH behind the split, was b/c of her emotional connection to her XH. I'm telling you as a former WW, if you wait around for her to voluntarily confess it was not you, but rather b/c she was having an EA with her XH, you may never see the day. The WW will blame the H as long as she can get away with it. So far, you are the reason she's getting away with it.
Those are my thoughts, FWIW. If you decide to address the EA, I'm sure the board can help you put together a plan.
It wasn't meant to be cold or anything, she said she didn't want to do valentines day even though we had discussed plans a while ago, so I wasn't going to take the day off and just sit around the house feeling miserable. Instead I chose to work and keep my pto for a later day.
Ah, well yeah if the two of you had already discussed not doing anything then it sounds like there was no harm there.
Normally I don't have a problem with my budget for the week, in fact it's typically the other way around were I'm giving her money for things.
Well the two of you are no longer a team, so it's time to start protecting yourself. Instead of "giving her money for things" you might start putting that away privately so you have access to it when you need it. Again the idea is to quit asking her for money or anything else, try and be more independent, and in turn, -look- more independent to her.
I didnít see your post before submitting my reply to OneArt. That communication lag. Lol
You know dear friend my egg consumption has gone down, well at home anyhow. Could be due to some unconscious affect upon my desires for eggy goodness, however I think it is more due to the time constraints of a hurried breakfast and getting to work. I do enjoy consuming eggs, bacon, toast, hash browns, and coffee around the time of morning break. Although that luxury doesnít avail itself to my current work environment to well.
Oh well, enough of eggs. You posted and deserve a response. I better get cracking.
I think all LBSs analyze their situations as well as others. We need understanding, reason, beliefs, answers, etc... You and I are rather verbose about our musings, part of our processes, and much fodder for others and their analysis.
Our approaches are perhaps a bit different (thank you for you most kind comments), however our goals are similar if not the same in many respects. Iím not talking about standing or not, I talking about life, living, happiness, and being true to your inner self.
I am following you and your developments with Brenda. Well done, by the way. I have not jumped in with much, having never been in your current scenario, and considering the abundant advice you are receiving. I do truly wish you the best. Try to be calm and just be yourself, it is only date number one. Donít worry eventually whomever you find, will love you for you. We all do. (((Andrew)))
I do agree from the outside, and that is my vantage point as well with W, she does look comfortable with her new life, and shows very little concern or regard for that which she disgarded. I do realize my projections on to this situation, the overlaying of my beliefs and what I would do, on to what I hope she might do.
At this moment in time her actions have no affect on my decision to stand or which direction I go forward with my life. Good thing too, or bad - suppose it depends on your viewpoint. If I was considering who she currently is, and was using that to base decisions on, well that gets messy. I do still consider her when my actions could have unnecessary detrimental affects on her, an example I still have not removed her from the authorized contacts from the school. It is not necessary, she is not stirring up any strife, so why should I.
My W has made it very clear as well, she chooses OM over me. I do recall your being pushed over the edge and your agony of deciding to wait or not. Iím pretty sure I fell off the edge somewhere early along all this. I did find my way back and have found peace in only ďwaitingĒ in a specific area of my life.
My pre-bomb drop timeline is different than the norm (if there is such a thing). I do believe she did take a while to get to where she is. There were no indicators, I am a pretty observant person, and kids, family, friends didnít see or suspect anything in the scale of what was announced. She is one h3ll of an actress.
According to her, the affair only started 2 months previous to BD, she did flip and flop between 2 and 4 months so somewhere in there - maybe. She says she never had sex during that time, and her happy, in your face announcement of her adultery to me and S19 (6 or 8 days after BD I think), and now we can get a quick divorce, leads me to believe that part.
Her weird going all quiet during our coffee ďdateĒ discussion when I asked if this was the only infidelity or affair during our marriage does bring up questions. Those answers really donít matter and I do not even know if I could believe her anyways. I donít even know if she can believe herself. Yes, she is that messed up.
Even her talks with me about how she was unraveling all have a short time frame, mostly about two to four months. The night she left, she did put her unhappiness at somewhere between 2, 5, to 15 years. Later she scaled that back considerably and settled on around two years. Again who knows, although I am pretty sure a part of her was unhappy and suffering for quite some time. I do wish she would have mentioned it, however I do understand how she couldnít.
My own dive into the dark waters after BD was weird and hard to describe at the time. I kept very quiet about just how far I had sank. W did say to me, after separating, she thought she was going crazy (before BD). I suspect she had some very strange and painful thoughts going on which lead to ďthisĒ being her way out. How long until ďthisĒ doesnít work anymore?
So the only tie left is our marriage, which she has started to cut. I do thank you for the timelines regarding all the paperwork and forms. I just donít know any of that. She filed everything on her own and I was just a respondent. I was served in early November, everything signed and filed on my birthday in mid November.
As much as do not want a divorce I will accept the gift it is (birthday and all). It will lock down our separation agreement, ensuring financial security for me and my kids. It might even help her along her path. It might even further me along as well.
Thanks for chiming in. Yeah, I get not to put too much stock in her words. At this point they pretty much roll off my back. That said, she has been remarkably consistent both in her actions and words over the past 10 months. It is driven by emotion, but she seems to have stalled out and been incapable of letting go. That doesn't do me any good, but more than constantly changing her words seem to reflect how she is still stuck in the morass or the fog.
Yep, in my later posts I wrote about the quit claim deed. I will definitely be pursuing that, and after that point it is up to her whether or not she allows me to use her name on the lease. She will be the only one exposed, so there isn't much benefit to her, other than perhaps alleviating some of her guilt. Neither of us are using lawyers, so that won't play a role.