Thanks for your feedback everyone. It really helps.

I dropped off the kids at H’s Monday night. He was exceptionally sweet and kind to me. Gave me a big hug and asked me to stay for dinner, which I did. After the kids went to bed we talked on the couch. He held my hand and looked me in the eye and kept giving me that look he used to when we were together and in love. He said he was sorry he got angry. He said he was just trying to enjoy his weekend. He told me he loved me several times. I know we both wanted to sleep together but didn’t.

He had the kids the next day and he sent me a text in the afternoon asking how I was. We actually had a normal conversation about each of our days like we used to when we were together. That evening I went out with friends. I get a text from him at 9:30 pm asking if I’m going to get “laid” tonight. Ugh. Here I thought the kind man I knew was coming around. But nope, crude, jealous, crazy H was back.

Today I had the kids so, of course, radio silence. Though I know he’s on a business trip but still, I expected it. He emailed a couple mediators and cc’d me to get an intro meeting scheduled.

I swear I’m going to get whiplash with his constant personality changes.

I see him Monday for my son’s parent teacher conference. After that, I won’t see him for almost two weeks due to the holiday schedule and a business trip of his. I’m going on vacation while he has the kids for Thanksgiving. He keeps asking what my plans are and with who but it’s none of his business. It’s driving him crazy. I plan not to reach out to him. Wish me luck and strength to do that and not get weak and wonder what he’s doing when I don’t hear from him.

Grace you took the words right out of my mouth. No apology needed.

Rose, I see you edited your initial post, tempering it a bit. I assume for clarification.

I don't know why you would reference a serious disorder like this. I'm going to default to the idea that it was in an effort to be helpful. Thank you.

Calling my style a "very rigid style of communication" and "It seems rigid, and cold, and exhausting," seems exaggerated and very judgmental.
Especially since we have never spoken.

I may be succinct in my descriptions and recommendations, but that is intentional. It is an effort to avoid any confusions. (apparently, I sometimes still get misinterpreted). But written communication like this forum makes it difficult to express emotional nuances. Emojis help. Still, the reader naturally adds there own cognitive bias and things can come across the wrong way. A description of an event may be summarized and lose its cadence and clarity.
It is best to question what may seem to be a harsh claim before rushing to judgment.

Especially since the basis of this forum is to help each other.

Job - she did take me up on it. She asked the boys and I if we could come see her. We were going to bring her dinner tonight, but we got snow and the roads were bad, so she didn't want us to try. But she did ask if we could could come see her tomorrow. So we will see what happens - same thing with bringing her dinner since she is sore and tired and not moving around a bunch. Let you all know how it goes.

Thank you exquisitobe.

I agree. They do not think like we do. I was just hoping that maybe...just maybe...she was done with being crazy. Even my sons understand why I can't be friends. I told her YEARS AGO that there will never be a friendship as long as she is with OM.

I've often wondered if she has felt any guilt. Sometimes, I doubt it.

I think some of it may have to do with the fact that my older brother is still friends with his XW and sees her quite often. Also, XW's sister is also friendly with both of her XH's. Of course situations are different, but they are still friendly.

"Appearance" has always been important to XW as well and I'm sure that she would like it to "appear" that we are still on speaking terms.

I've read that some in MLC eventually wake up and some don't. I am beginning to think that XW will be one that doesn't. Sad.

Thank you for the very nice words too!

Tad

PsySara, thanks for checking in. Given your particular specialty, it is concerning that you see cause for concern. Don't know if you recall, but he is a member of yours and your H's profession. I am very concerned about hurting him at work. I still don't think he is NPD. I think his stress has exacerbated some narcissistic traits and perhaps created a character trap. I think he is BPD and massively PA and the fear of abandonment/loss is freaking him out. He is very subtle about everything he does, and relatively careful about limiting his exposure to being revealed, but there are definitive things I can use against him if need be. I think he filed for divorce to keep OW2 happy as part of a deal to move in with her (I think he couldn't keep the demons at bay alone anymore), but now the days are ticking by and he is getting worried that I am not trying to stop the divorce or beg him to stop it.

One fact I found disturbing. I have long suspected that the daily texts (and more recently calls) to the kids were about me. I just found it odd that he would do it and not ask to see them and the content was often something that only I would get. Once I contacted him about a stupid letter his lawyer sent (I predicted he would use the case to up the ante when I did not respond to the other stuff), he stopped contacting the kids for a week. He had really been spinning and calling (unusual) and never did talk to them, hear from them, or see them, but then suddenly he stopped when he heard from me. I think that by my reaching out to him calmly and asking him to meet with me to wrap up the issues in the divorce before year end satisfied whatever had him spinning. He said he would meet me, and then claimed to be busy for a face-to-face meeting and asked for a call to set up a framework before meeting in person (he's had a draft 24 page agreement for two years--no need for a call on framework).

If I'm not mistaken, Cluster B's struggle hugely between October and January. I'm just hoping to get through this period without much more drama.

Be the lighthouse man!

(((TF)))

I'm 62 and guys STILL say they wish they could make a baby with me! Even though that ship has OBVIOUSLY sailed!

I think it's often less about the reality of a child (in fact, almost never) and more about some he-man notion of impregnating a woman, OR some wistful romantic "gee we would have had beautiful kids" kind of thing.

All that being said though, new guy's comment as pretty direct, it's worth paying attention to whether he really is a guy who seriously wants another child.

Man, I get you regarding the obstacles that could be easily overcome if we were still together. This is one of the things I miss most... working together as a team for the benefit of the kids, me doing what I'm good at, and letting her do the things she's good at.

Mixed signals.... I'm trying to ignore them. Steve was right when he told me that when she wants to R, you will KNOW. Until then, I'm just going try to move along.

I do pray a lot. It's helped quite a bit. I've never hear of Mindful Meditation. I'll do some reading up on it. Might be just the thing to clear my head.



This is exactly what it makes me. A victim. Perpetuates the Woe is me, why me, why did he thoughts. That's toxic. I am doing this to myself, and it won't change anything H is thinking, doing, feeling. I will work harder to push the thoughts aside and not let them take a life of their own.



I am a firm believer that feelings follow actions. Several people have said they can't believe I'm doing as well as I am. I tell them what choice do I have? Wallowing in self-pity is useless. So, I carry on as though nothing significant has happened in my life. No one at work even has a clue I'm separated. They will be shocked I'm sure when they find out. Carrying on as though nothing has changed in my life has really helped over the last month.!

I appreciate everyone's support!

If nothing pans out Saturday, go out and pamper yourself (facial, nails, massage). You will be surprised how much better you feel after. Also, go buy a good book (The art of not giving a [censored] is an excellent read) and sit in a coffee shop. It will seem weird at first, but it gets you out of the house. The emptiness is overwhelming the first few times the kids are away, but eventually, you will learn to love the quietness of it and the fact that you can do whatever the [censored] you like (stay in your PJs and watch rubbish telly, dance around the kitchen in your underpants, whatever). The time is yours and no-one is going to tell you how to spend it.

This was on R2C's quote page. Just change the W with H & her with him and it should all be 100% relevant.

Hi Gerda.

What you wrote about your thoughts regarding it being obvious our spouses rejections was not personal and trying to put yourself in that same place really spoke to me. I "know" that my Ws rejection of me is not personal towards me, but "knowing" and KNOWING aren't always the same thing. Ot maybe a better way to say it is knowing vs accepting. Thank you for that!

I kind of agree with Job regarding the gift. I would just say thank you and leave it at that. You are a caring, compassionate, and kind woman. Saying thank you for a gift is something you would say to anyone. You would just be treating H like anyone...no more, no less.

And because it lifted my spirits knowing that you think of me (us) when trying to wrap your head around things, please know that I also think of you the same way. I think we have all bonded together in our misery and out of it has come something beautifully unexpected...a friendship in the most unlikely of places. I'm glad to have met you!!

((Gerda))

Torn I just saw your posts today. I wrote a rather lengthy response and then had some kind of computer error......and lost it. So, I'll try to shorten this one by saying that it seems you have really been on the ball doing a lot of things that indicate you are moving onward, detaching, GAL, etc.

Can you tell us why your kids are saying they don't want to live with their mother? What are their ages? As I'm sure you know, even with full custody, she would still have them sometimes, and they would still be affected by her emotional detachment from them. As the "sane" parent, you have to do what you can to protect them. Just know that most (not all) WW's will fight to the death to prevent their H from getting full custody. Not b/c she really wants the kids that much, but b/c she doesn't want him to win. So, if you should decide to go for full custody, be prepared to die on that battle hill, b/c there's little chance of returning to a MR with her. You have to do what you think is best for your kids, and with your lawyer's legal advice......always. With the painful emotions you are experiencing, it's easy for it to influence your decisions. How could it not? So, it's good to have an outside source to give advice based on their experience, profession, etc.

In my series of threads about the mindset of the WW, I shared my opinion of how it's better if the father (the head of the family) remains in the marital bedroom and marital home. However, there are some cases where that's not possible. I agree that the WW should experience consequences of her decisions/actions. Even MWD says that in most cases, some type of loss has to be experienced, in order to influence her in the right direction. When she is in open rebellion, having a PA, etc., then the H usually has to make some hard decisions...…..if he wants to have self-respect and hopes to ever have a chance of her respecting him as a man....much less as her H. It may already be past that point with you, IDK. So, whatever you decide about moving, make sure all your ducks are in order, so it won't come back to bite you. IDK if you own your current home, or plan to buy another one...….but please, get legal advice about all of that stuff. We can give you our opinions/advice about the relationship matter, but when it comes to finances and legal matters......get it from the lawyers. And, don't ever trust a WW to do the "right thing" or "be fair".

I am strongly opposed to "in-house" separation, b/c it doesn't work. I've been active on this board for a little over eleven years now, and have never seen one case where it worked. On the other hand, I have seen cases where the couple physically separated and were later able to reconcile. One case on the board happened to be a couple who were both counselors. She was in a PA, even moved to another town, and they shared a little daughter. I'll try to remember to post you the link of the H's thread, b/c it was a success story. The point is that the WW has to believe she's lost/losing her H.....for real. As long as he continues being part of her life, she doesn't really feel the loss. She can tell when it's for real. People say, "Well, you share children, so you'll always be a part of her life". No, you have the same kids, but you don't have to share her life. There's a difference. Make a life for yourself.

As I think someone has previously stated, personalities often make a difference in how badly a WW acts. I haven't read your entire story yet, but it sounds like your WW is off and running. Some WW's are bullies. Some are spoiled, and have a sense of entitlement. Some are mean. Most are manipulators. All of them will check the H's emotional attachment temperature (temp check). All of them are angry at the H. All of them feel justified in doing what they do.....and blame the H for it. And, as one of my favorite people use to say...…...all cheaters lie.

Don't know if I addressed anything you wanted to know, but I'll find your thread and post more there.