Steve85, I'm in total agreement there. I do feel there is a lot of value in the process...but you are right that they have to be a good fit, and also pro-marriage.
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
I am new here and just read through your sitch. I see many comments about "friend zone". Could someone explain to me a little more about how this is different than being detached but also trying to connect with H/W?
My H hasn't served me D papers yet, but he is having a EA/PA. I've been detached but friendly, still discuss work and other non-essential things. We are separated but in same house.
I guess I'm trying to understand at what point I should shift to avoiding being in the "friend zone" and more cold and detached? Once H serves me papers? At this point, I've told H I want to work on M but he is resistant.
I work with him which makes it even more complicated.
I'm sorry NZkiwi for what you have gone through. You sound like such a great dad.
Pulling this from NZ's thread to answer here.
Elbereth, the FZ is largely a male position where women like certain men as friends but nothing more. I have read opinions that women know in the first minute of meeting a man if she could ever be intimate with him, or if he is just "friend" material. Men will sleep with just about anyone.
Men have their own quirks though. There are women that a man only wants sex with, those women that a man wants to be FWBs with, and then those women a man is willing to bring home to mom (relationship material).
So in your sitch Elbereth, I am less concerned about the FZ because MOST men aren't interested in being friends with an ex. In other words, if your H ends up leaving likely he won't be interested in talking to you. Or hanging out with you platonically. Men sometimes use friendship to try to have more with a woman (sex and/or R), so if he truly moves on from you likely he won't try to friend you because he won't be interested in trying for the sex and R part.
So Elbereth, your goal is to be friendly, upbeat, fulfilled and pleased around him. But not to let his words and actions cause you to react emotionally. Even if you get hurt, upset, shocked, etc on the inside, on the outside you are cool as a cucumber. Detachment is never cold. If you start getting cold toward him then you are doing it wrong.
As far as trying to connect with him, I caution you here. Trying to connect with him involves pressure and pursuit, which you are trying to avoid right now. Instead, continue to focus on yourself. GAL as much as possible, stay busy. Keep working on becoming the best version of yourself you can. And work on detaching more and more. Detachment is not like a flip you switch, it takes work and time to get good at. So keep working on it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
After being through my own D, I no longer believe that we should focus on saving the marriage. I know that's how we all ended up here, but it's a flawed approach.
It's flawed because what we had is broken. What we had is gone now. We really don't want it back. We lie and say we do, but what we really want is A GOOD MARRIAGE. And to be honest, what we had wasn't a good marriage. If it was, it would still be intact. Even if you were the perfect spouse 110%, you can't be responsible in the least for another human's shortcomings.
So now, instead of worrying about your spouse and their underhanded BS what you need to do is worry about yourself. Make yourself the priority. Too many LBS's worry about their waywards. Don't. Your husband is fine, trust me. He's doing exactly what he wants to do right now.
Crappy huh? That's hard to hear but it's the truth. He's doing what he wants right now. He's doing who he wants right now.
You need to detach. You do that however you need to. Detaching is for your protection. It doesn't matter if your STBX thinks you're being mean or rude or whatever. Trust me, they can gaslight and manipulate perception of reality to make you seem like the bad person REGARDLESS, no matter how compassionate or cordial you are. So protect yourself however you need to.
So from this point on and FOREVER, you have to live your life 100% for yourself. Nobody else. You are a strong and worthy person. You deserve peace and happiness. Make the decision to love yourself enough to put yourself first.
And one more thing: get yourself a good attorney. Don't negotiate with terrorists. Get a good attorney that has YOUR interests in mind. DO NOT use the same attorney and think you are being gracious, or saving money, or being a good person. There is no such thing as "GOODNESS" in a divorce. A divorce is a business transaction.
Save yourself. Nobody is coming! BD:11/2017 Filed:12/2017 Final: 2/2018
So Elbereth, your goal is to be friendly, upbeat, fulfilled and pleased around him. But not to let his words and actions cause you to react emotionally. Even if you get hurt, upset, shocked, etc on the inside, on the outside you are cool as a cucumber. Detachment is never cold. If you start getting cold toward him then you are doing it wrong.
As far as trying to connect with him, I caution you here. Trying to connect with him involves pressure and pursuit, which you are trying to avoid right now. Instead, continue to focus on yourself. GAL as much as possible, stay busy. Keep working on becoming the best version of yourself you can. And work on detaching more and more. Detachment is not like a flip you switch, it takes work and time to get good at. So keep working on it.
The above really helps to clarify, thank you! I do feel like I'm generally doing most of those things, so I'm on the right track. When I say 'connect with him', I'm doing so in ways that I don't feel are pressuring. For example, when he stayed at a friends house, I made him a favorite food item, or I send him an article I think he will enjoy...things that show I know him well, but not very intimate or love things. Hopefully that is a good thing? Or do you think I'm pressuring him even when he's not acting like I am?
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
Thanks for your insight. I agree with you in many ways, but not all. I do agree that the MR we had was not good. So I have accepted that it is dead. What my hope is, is to have the opportunity to create a new relationship that is better than the old marriage. I know that what I hope to do is most likely not going to happen and I will most likely end up D'd. But in part of this process, I hope to better understand myself, understand what went wrong and know in my heart that I did everything I could to save the marriage. To me, the commitment I made is a serious thing. Not something I take lightly. And much of my current actions are for me. Sure, I want to the do the right things that might help in my situation, but my main focus is on myself. As that is all I have control over. And my kids. For me, I need to know that I tried, even if I don't get results. I can't move on if I don't do what I believe is the right thing for me to do.
I have set boundaries where necessary, and I think I'm detaching in a positive way. I am calm, getting healthy, GALing and yes, I am sad, but have a level of peace as I've accepted that this is where it's at. I also do have a lawyer and am taking precautions. Yes, divorce is messy, and I am no stranger to it...I've got one under my belt already.
Thank you for your honest words! The hard truth is good. I am moving forward with my eyes wide open!
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
So Elbereth, your goal is to be friendly, upbeat, fulfilled and pleased around him. But not to let his words and actions cause you to react emotionally. Even if you get hurt, upset, shocked, etc on the inside, on the outside you are cool as a cucumber. Detachment is never cold. If you start getting cold toward him then you are doing it wrong.
As far as trying to connect with him, I caution you here. Trying to connect with him involves pressure and pursuit, which you are trying to avoid right now. Instead, continue to focus on yourself. GAL as much as possible, stay busy. Keep working on becoming the best version of yourself you can. And work on detaching more and more. Detachment is not like a flip you switch, it takes work and time to get good at. So keep working on it.
The above really helps to clarify, thank you! I do feel like I'm generally doing most of those things, so I'm on the right track. When I say 'connect with him', I'm doing so in ways that I don't feel are pressuring. For example, when he stayed at a friends house, I made him a favorite food item, or I send him an article I think he will enjoy...things that show I know him well, but not very intimate or love things. Hopefully that is a good thing? Or do you think I'm pressuring him even when he's not acting like I am?
If your H were simply a WAH and that was it, then yes I would say those are good subtle gestures. Similar to talk and touch charges. The problem is that he is after someone else. I know he said he never cheated and that it is just an EA. I am not buying that. He has met with her in person. I think we would be naive to assume that he is telling the truth. Especially since cheaters NEVER admit it even in the face of undeniable evidence.
So I would stop with the reconnection efforts for the time being. You are teaching him that you will be he backup plan in case OW decides to move on. That you are willing to tolerate him being with someone else and sit back and pathetically wait for him. Do you think that makes you look more or less attractive to him?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
If your H were simply a WAH and that was it, then yes I would say those are good subtle gestures. Similar to talk and touch charges. The problem is that he is after someone else. I know he said he never cheated and that it is just an EA. I am not buying that. He has met with her in person. I think we would be naive to assume that he is telling the truth. Especially since cheaters NEVER admit it even in the face of undeniable evidence.
So I would stop with the reconnection efforts for the time being. You are teaching him that you will be he backup plan in case OW decides to move on. That you are willing to tolerate him being with someone else and sit back and pathetically wait for him. Do you think that makes you look more or less attractive to him?
I know for a fact they have seen each other, but are not able to on a regular basis due to distance. And he knows I know that too. And yes, I agree that I cannot believe what he tells me so I have evidence to back it up. I am doing talk charges exactly, but not too strong and not daily. And I also realize that in some ways it allows me to be his backup plan, as I truly believe the EA/PA will run its course and not last. My goal is to have the opportunity to reconcile. The doesn't mean I will take him back without some hard work on his part. But for my own growth and moving forward, I do feel I need to allow this opportunity to be there. I feel there will be plenty of time in the future to confront, deal with and disengage if that is what is to happen, so I don't want to do that right now. Plus, with the kids and my being a step-parent, as well as work related issues, I feel that keeping things on a positive note between us is important at this time. I am not intimate with him and I am not discussing R, and I am focusing on myself, I am setting boundaries where needed and if this is truly an MLC, he needs to go through what he is going through without pressure from me. At this point, I am just seeing how my gut feels each moment and trying to adjust my behavior for what feels like it's working or is working for myself and my own health.
It's confusing as my marriage program advises certain things and MLC forums advise certain things. I'm also reading the DB book. So, I'm taking in all of this information and then trying the things that feel right, with the focus on not causing more harm (if I can towards H) as well as putting my needs and my health and my growth first. For now, it feels right to me and I am calm, detached and feel a sense of peace and empowerment as I feel I am focusing on myself first and foremost. And my kids, that I still want in my life longterm.
All this advice is so helpful and keep it coming! I do really appreciate the different points of view and opinions!
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
I've said this before. I wish I could go out and get some side action, and have my W sit by and wait for me to be done. LOL Obviously, I would never do that, but it does amaze me how many people do not have a PA as a dealbreaker.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I've said this before. I wish I could go out and get some side action, and have my W sit by and wait for me to be done. LOL Obviously, I would never do that, but it does amaze me how many people do not have a PA as a dealbreaker.
Well it's amazing to some people how multiple EAs and sending nudies isn't a deal breaker. Everyone has their own boundaries.
And I also realize that in some ways it allows me to be his backup plan, as I truly believe the EA/PA will run its course and not last.
Just be prepared for the fact that it might not run its course, or as quickly as you like. My STBXW's is at 8 months, ask Ginger how long she would have been waiting. Google the Stockdale Paradox.
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
