Not Sure Where This Is Going

[SteveLW]

I can also say from my own experience, that when my perspective switched from trying to save my W from herself, and trying to save my D and myself, things turned around pretty quickly. My sitch was very unique in timing and turnaround speed, so please take it with a huge grain of salt, but you will never move forward with your focus on her.

I've seen it mentioned multiple times that your turnaround came unusually fast. Last night I read some of your threads and realized that patience, which you wrote to me about, didn't come easily to you either until all this. And that little seeds of doubt can still creep in. It helped me understand that it's a long road back for everyone, it's hard for everyone, and not just a question of you being inherently much better at DB than I.

Agree 100%. I struggled mightily. However, I did resolve pretty early on to try and DB as hard as I could. I think that resolve helped me to get through my mistakes. We have a saying around here when someone makes a mistake in DBing. "Don't dwell on it. Just learn and move forward. Get back up on the DB horse!" Or something similar. The point is that once you initiate an R talk, you can't "uninitiate" it. It is water under the bridge, just resolve to do better from this point forward.

I also eventually got detachment down pretty good. By time I took the focus off of her, had GAL in full swing, stop reacting emotionally to the things she was saying and doing, and began to embrace my future life with or without her, the turnaround happened quickly. And again, that was unusual, because it usually take a lot longer. We've had some success stories, but they all take a strict adherence to DBing principles and techniques. One guy (hoosjim) whose W was still engaging with OM, and he started to apply sandi's rules and follow sandi's advice and his W turned around quickly after that. The quickest path to R, if it is possible at all, is to adhere to the principles as closely as possible.

[AnotherStander]

Trouble in paradise with OW2? She'll probably turn around next week and say they're madly in love. Not going to read anything into this.

At least we'll have a schedule.

Who knows, this is what they do. High highs and low lows. Your job is to stay off the roller coaster and hold the middle ground. She's high you're neutral. She's low you're neutral. I do suggest getting that schedule nailed down while she's in a good mood though.

[Niall11]

Trouble in paradise with OW2? She'll probably turn around next week and say they're madly in love. Not going to read anything into this.

At least we'll have a schedule.

Who knows, this is what they do. High highs and low lows. Your job is to stay off the roller coaster and hold the middle ground. She's high you're neutral. She's low you're neutral. I do suggest getting that schedule nailed down while she's in a good mood though.

Schedule is agreed to,

I'm having a very hard time being neutral. I spend a lot of time hurt and angry, She's the one who seems neutral. Like she's free and enjoying her life. She's always had an aloof streak but I think she's just a better actor. A few weeks ago she basically invited herself over to a mutual friend's house (really much more my friend) and unburdened herself, All I was told is that all of this is very difficult for her. Could've fooled me.

[Niall11]

Agree 100%. I struggled mightily. However, I did resolve pretty early on to try and DB as hard as I could. I think that resolve helped me to get through my mistakes. We have a saying around here when someone makes a mistake in DBing. "Don't dwell on it. Just learn and move forward. Get back up on the DB horse!" Or something similar. The point is that once you initiate an R talk, you can't "uninitiate" it. It is water under the bridge, just resolve to do better from this point forward.

I also eventually got detachment down pretty good. By time I took the focus off of her, had GAL in full swing, stop reacting emotionally to the things she was saying and doing, and began to embrace my future life with or without her, the turnaround happened quickly. And again, that was unusual, because it usually take a lot longer. We've had some success stories, but they all take a strict adherence to DBing principles and techniques. One guy (hoosjim) whose W was still engaging with OM, and he started to apply sandi's rules and follow sandi's advice and his W turned around quickly after that. The quickest path to R, if it is possible at all, is to adhere to the principles as closely as possible.

I've tried very hard to avoid the big mistakes and to follow Sandi's rules. Some are pretty easy. Some, like seeming happy when I'm not, very difficult. All of the progress came when I was doing DB principles well, all of the major setbacks when I lost my cool and gave voice to the hurt within. Which is profound, the deepest I've ever felt.

I'm less satisfied with how I'm doing with the affirmative DB: 180s, GAL, detachment. I'm probably a tough grader but there's definite room for improvement. Especially detachment, though that may be helped along by progress on GAL.

[Niall11]

A very bad day yesterday, and I right after I said I was doing OK at avoiding the most egregious mistakes. After discussing on Monday how W would honor a schedule and would go out less, she went to a Meetup event after work with no notice. She later said she "put it on the calendar," by which she meant that, the morning of, she wrote it on the wall calendar nobody ever looks at. She put it in the box for the first Tuesday...in March. Because nobody turned the page when the month changed. That's not adequate notice.

She came home at 7:45 when I was just about to get D2 to bed. She got D2 all riled up, running and jumping around, and totally messed up the bedtime routine. I wasn't happy about any of it and we ended up having a discussion in which we both said things that have probably been on our minds for a while but were better not said under those circumstances. I feel like I should have kept my mouth shut. She slept in the living room and is talking about moving out and imminent D.

Ugh.

[SteveLW]

Niall, one of the things I had to learn in my sitch was stress management. Finding ways to walk away angry, then deal with that anger. This is very important. Impulsiveness, even when warranted, will not get you to where you want to be. The posters here that are most impulsive have a very difficult time not doing things that cause problems in their sitch. Impulse control is a must, just like patience. The two go hand-in-hand.

Back off. Give it some time to calm down. WASs make a lot of empty threats, this is likely that.

[Niall11]

Niall, one of the things I had to learn in my sitch was stress management. Finding ways to walk away angry, then deal with that anger. This is very important. Impulsiveness, even when warranted, will not get you to where you want to be. The posters here that are most impulsive have a very difficult time not doing things that cause problems in their sitch. Impulse control is a must, just like patience. The two go hand-in-hand.

Back off. Give it some time to calm down. WASs make a lot of empty threats, this is likely that.

Understood. I've been holding in a lot lately and I messed up. She actually said she was sorry for rolling in at 8 pm and wrecking the bedtime routine for D2, and I stupidly said I didn't think she was all that sorry. 100% the wrong thing to do and probably not even accurate. My reaction had more to do with her overall seeming lack of remorse for the totality of what she's doing. I should've accepted the apology. I should not have presumed to tell her I knew her feelings better than she did. Is "anti-validation" a term?

Yesterday she came in around 7 (there was a rehearsal at her job) and didn't say a word to me. Slept in the other room again. I just left it. This morning I saw her for a few minutes and we exchanged a few words. She is still mad but not as much as before. I won't force the issue.

[AnotherStander]

After discussing on Monday how W would honor a schedule and would go out less, she went to a Meetup event after work with no notice. She later said she "put it on the calendar," by which she meant that, the morning of, she wrote it on the wall calendar nobody ever looks at. She put it in the box for the first Tuesday...in March. Because nobody turned the page when the month changed. That's not adequate notice.

She knows exactly what she's doing. She knew she was writing it where you'd never see it, she knew you'd confront her, and she already knew the lies she would tell to cover it. Niall, she is a classic rebellious walkaway. She is pushing and pushing to see how much she can get away with. She has zero respect for you and will continue to cake-eat and take advantage as long as you allow it to happen. Have a look at TXHubby's threads to see how this is going to play out. She will eventually destroy you if you don't take your balls back.

She slept in the living room and is talking about moving out and imminent D.

GOOD. You should encourage her to follow through on this. I'm not saying give up on your M, but you've got to set it aside for now and protect yourself and your D from her GGW antics.

[Niall11]

After discussing on Monday how W would honor a schedule and would go out less, she went to a Meetup event after work with no notice. She later said she "put it on the calendar," by which she meant that, the morning of, she wrote it on the wall calendar nobody ever looks at. She put it in the box for the first Tuesday...in March. Because nobody turned the page when the month changed. That's not adequate notice.

She knows exactly what she's doing. She knew she was writing it where you'd never see it, she knew you'd confront her, and she already knew the lies she would tell to cover it. Niall, she is a classic rebellious walkaway. She is pushing and pushing to see how much she can get away with. She has zero respect for you and will continue to cake-eat and take advantage as long as you allow it to happen. Have a look at TXHubby's threads to see how this is going to play out. She will eventually destroy you if you don't take your balls back.

She slept in the living room and is talking about moving out and imminent D.

GOOD. You should encourage her to follow through on this. I'm not saying give up on your M, but you've got to set it aside for now and protect yourself and your D from her GGW antics.

I'm just going to leave it for now. You may be right about her doing it deliberately. She was always a little ditzy about this kind of stuff and she wouldn't have done something like that deliberately, but it seems that everyone's spouse was never the type of person to do this stuff...until they reach this point and they are. Since our D2 was born she hasn't had much freedom to go out and do fun things. She decided to start and now has all these new friends and sees all these events she'd like to go to and is like, "Why not?"

One of the things I wanted/needed to change was being more active with our D2 and I'm very proud of how far I've come with that, but

One question I have: A lot of stories I've read on here involve real GGW activities. Drugs, booze, rampant promiscuity. A lot of my W's stuff is pretty wholesome in and of itself. Yoga. Rock climbing. I know she wanted to have a fling with OW1 in the fall, but I don't even know for sure that there's anything with OW2. Does that matter at all?

[Niall11]

Yesterday W came home from work straightaway. Continued to ignore me and refused to be in the same room. Honestly it is helping me detach because I find it so ridiculous. She's the one who shut down on me months ago and has been chasing other people. I said some harsh things Tuesday night, and probably should have shut my mouth, but none of them were untrue.

I took a long walk, then had the monthly meeting of a local committee. She texted me that we needed milk, first words in two days. After the meeting I dropped off the milk and went back out. A few of us go for a drink every month after the meeting. I had a great time and felt more like myself, joking and telling stories, than I have in a while.

She texted me that she had put the Tuesday event on the calendar, but on the wrong month, so she was sorry. I waited half an hour and just said, "OK." She added snarkily that she had a dance event for tonight (Friday) but could cancel if that wasn't enough notice for me and I had other plans. I was tempted to say I did have other plans, but I don't and I don't want to play games like that. She actually mentioned the event over a week ago. I told her to go and have a good time. I have something on Saturday.

I am thinking (didn't say) that the time apart will do us good. She then texted that she might come home between work and the evening event, or might go see her BFF who encouraged her to cheat with OW1. I said, "No problem." Right now I don't care what she does. She then texted that she doesn't want to discuss what happened "right now," had never expected me to say some of the things I said, but will have more to say at some point. I replied, "I understand. I know you are upset."

She spent Tuesday and Wed nights sleeping in the living room. I half expected to come home to find her in the MBR and was wondering if she'd try to tell me to sleep elsewhere. But she was asleep, in the living room again, when I returned. Got up and left this morning with a kiss for D2 but not a word to me. I find myself less concerned with where she chooses to sleep. That's her decision.