W went through an initial phase where she was quite short and bitter with me. Then, she went through a stage where all she talked about was the divorce process. Now, W just seems generally happy with life. She texts and calls me all of the time. Mostly about things that matter very little. It's interesting to see these phases.
Saddens me to say it, but I think this has been a huge relief to her. It's almost as if the last 17 years were just one painful memory for her. Meanwhile, I'm still torn up. The advice helps (GAL, detach, 180), but I can't completely put the sadness behind. I feel like a complete failure at times. We'll likely file within the next 2-3 weeks.
There are other times where I know that I deserve to be loved. I'm a good guy, good father, not abusive, not a cheater, not lazy doing household chores, make good money. I've made mistakes by concentrating on the kids and taking our R for granted, but I can't continue to beat myself up over that. Just have to keep improving to make sure it doesn't happen the next time.
Having no hopes/expectations are healthiest for me. The times I've had the slightest hope/expectation, it's been fool's gold (cheeseless hole). Without hope/expectation my main motivation has been to improve myself for my girls and my next partner. However, a part of me is motivated to be so attractive and such a great father that the W regrets her decision. I know this likely isn't healthy, but I'm just being honest.
You're right the self improvement is difficult to unwed from the hope. Like you, rationally I know I am doing it for me, but the broken little girl inside me still screams, if I am interesting enough, pretty enough, thin enough, together enough, then he will love me again. I guess the trick is keeping that hope alive long enough so that eventually the changes become for you and you only.
The hope is there as long as you need it to be. She cannot take it away from you. its your (and i have problems with this too) expectations that she has power over. Advice that I tell myself - Keep the hope. Learn to drop the expectations.
In some of your previous posts, I get the impression that you devoted so much time on fatherhood, that you neglected nourishing certain elements that are required for a good MR. Traditionally, this is common with mothers of young children. Her energy is exhausted on taking care of her family's needs, to the point her H feels neglected. In your case, you feel it was reversed, If I understand you correctly.
If your M is reconciled, or if you have another relationship...….will you know how to balance the needs between your children and your W? B/c it is about learning how to balance our availability, attention, and energy. If you don't learn, then you will likely experience the same problem again.
Quote
Without hope/expectation my main motivation has been to improve myself for my girls and my next partner. However, a part of me [b]is motivated to be so attractive and such a great father that the W regrets her decision.
I don't think you have to show your W what a great father you are......since the kids were already the center of your time and attention.
The words that trip me in your quote are, "to be so attractive". Can you be motived to be an attractive individual, apart from fatherhood? Do you understand what I mean? You will always be a father, but you need to find your identity as a man, too.
You said you were an alpha male before M, but that your W was a "dominant mare". My knowledge of horses is extremely limited, however, I don't think her being a dominant mare should have changed your status as a stallion. If anything, she is naturally attracted to the alpha. You said you rarely told her "no". In another part, you said something to the effect of hoping it helped to get your b@lls back. I think that says so much about the MR. Why not just get you b@lls and learn how to keep them? If you don't, then you aren't going to be happy about yourself as a man.
Quote
I also had an on again/off again chewing habit. I think it's where I lost her trust, to be honest. I'd quit for her, but then start up again behind her back.
Look at the wording in your posts. You quit "for her". That's like going on a diet for someone else. It doesn't work well, b/c you've got to have that motivation for yourself. You can't do it just to make someone else happier. Ultimately, it has to be to make yourself happier.
You are getting all twisted about her having a trust issue over the tobacco chewing. If you want to quit for your health sake, and b/c it's one of the nastiest, disgusting habits men can do......then do it. But don't do it just to please her or win her back. Don't do it to prove something to her. I see it running the same line as trying to keep her appeased and/or surrendering to her dominant position. I think that was probably routine in the relationship. If so, then the lack of b@lls was far more damaging than the tobacco chewing. Good news is that it can change. It begins with you changing how you think about yourself.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
In some of your previous posts, I get the impression that you devoted so much time on fatherhood, that you neglected nourishing certain elements that are required for a good MR. Traditionally, this is common with mothers of young children. Her energy is exhausted on taking care of her family's needs, to the point her H feels neglected. In your case, you feel it was reversed, If I understand you correctly.
If your M is reconciled, or if you have another relationship...….will you know how to balance the needs between your children and your W? B/c it is about learning how to balance our availability, attention, and energy. If you don't learn, then you will likely experience the same problem again.
It wasn't so much a lack of balance. It's more that I largely ignored the relationship with my W for the last several years--while still being a good father. There was time to do both, so it wasn't a balancing issue. It was a bunch of things that I neglected. Things that attracted my W to me. Little and big surprises, date nights, day trips, etc. When I met my W, I had things that I did. I liked to fish, hunt, camp, hang out with friends, go on vacations with friends (especially to sporting events). I volunteered a lot (especially for the Special Olympics). By the end of our marriage, I had become a hermit. I started staying home mostly because I felt my W was overburdened because she was a work from home mom. She did a lot of the driving, getting the girls ready, etc. After awhile, I started to become too use to being a hermit, and I rarely did anything. I think that was a big turnoff for my W.
Originally Posted by sandi2
I don't think you have to show your W what a great father you are......since the kids were already the center of your time and attention.
The words that trip me in your quote are, "to be so attractive". Can you be motived to be an attractive individual, apart from fatherhood? Do you understand what I mean? You will always be a father, but you need to find your identity as a man, too.
This is where I'm drowning. Right after BD, I saw my W for one weekend. I did everything wrong. Pleading, doing little things for her, etc. She had no appreciation for this. Now, I understand why. Since late August, I have had a grand total of 5 minutes face-to-face time with my W--just when we meet at the airport when I go visit my girls. I'm unable to validate. I'm unable to show a more attractive side of me. I'm exercising, going out more, volunteering again, getting involved in my faith more. These are things that I'm doing for myself. These are things that might make me more attractive to my W, but she has no way of knowing about these things--except for the occasional post on social media. I feel like I can't even show a more attractive side of me until we live nearby again, and that will be long after the divorce is finalized. I still want to make these changes for me, but I'm at a loss to "show" my W these changes.
Originally Posted by sandi2
You said you were an alpha male before M, but that your W was a "dominant mare". My knowledge of horses is extremely limited, however, I don't think her being a dominant mare should have changed your status as a stallion. If anything, she is naturally attracted to the alpha. You said you rarely told her "no". In another part, you said something to the effect of hoping it helped to get your b@lls back. I think that says so much about the MR. Why not just get you b@lls and learn how to keep them? If you don't, then you aren't going to be happy about yourself as a man.
I think this is the question. I'm slowly getting my mojo back, but there's no chance to show her this. I'm pretty much going with little contact--unless she asks me a direct question. It keeps me sane, but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do in my sitch.
Originally Posted by sandi2
Look at the wording in your posts. You quit "for her". That's like going on a diet for someone else. It doesn't work well, b/c you've got to have that motivation for yourself. You can't do it just to make someone else happier. Ultimately, it has to be to make yourself happier.
I did quit for her. I know that was the problem. Ironically, I decided to quit for me (finally got some help with it--instead of trying to be a man and quitting cold turkey) on August 1st. Ten days later, my W told me she wanted a divorce. I have not chewed since. My doctor told me that I finally had the proper motivation.
How do you make yourself attractive when you are in a long distance separation?
You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. One minute you say you are doing it for you and the next you are seeking W's approval. If I told you that seeking her approval got you here, can you find it in yourself to stop?
Stop the D talk. Stop saying it to your self and stop posting about it. If it happens, it happens. The people here can give you the tools to decrease the odds of it happening, but you have to listen and follow the advice. You sound pitiful with this "maybe I should just blah blah blah.." Yea, it hurts. We all know. It requires this much pain to get it through our LBSs thick skulls all the changes we need to make. Make permanent.
You have to get your mojo back. For you. Your W doesn't like the spinless bata that you have become. Neither do you. Until you love yourself and become the guy you used to be, you won't be attractive to anybody that you want to be with.
Stop this D talk with the W. Stand up to her. Stop negotiating. If she wants to make an offer tell her to send it and you will consider it. DON'T discuss the terms. She is using it to control you. You can be firm without fighting. Make her do it all and don't agree to anything without your own counsel. F her time frame. You still have to agree.
Stop posting to social media. There is nothing that you can post that will change the way she feels. Nothing. Be a mystery.
This could all turn around before it is too late. It can. I wouldn't rush to tell the girls.
The time has come for you to be the man in this relationship. Forget the hope. Trust in God. Work on getting YOU back. I can tell you are failing at detaching. It's not too late to start. W will see it in your limited interactions. Don't engage her, don't read into any tests. Just do what you said you were doing. Detach, GAL smoke cigars. Leave the MR alone at this time.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. One minute you say you are doing it for you and the next you are seeking W's approval. If I told you that seeking her approval got you here, can you find it in yourself to stop?
I'm ready. This is true. It's hard because of the situation I'm in. The changes are primarily for me, but I think it's natural to hope W sees the changes and likes them. I don't have any way for her to see my changes. I know I need to get to the point where the changes are for me only (and my girls). I've done much better since my last post. Stopped following my W on social media. Continue to only answer texts when necessary (basically, only to answer questions and not the superfluous ones). Did more volunteer work last night. Continued to smoke cigars last night. GAL, 180, truly detach for myself. No expectations that it will affect W (or she'll even notice them). Not worrying about whether my W see the fundamental changes I'm making is the last hurdle for me.
Originally Posted by RR17
Stop the D talk. Stop saying it to your self and stop posting about it. If it happens, it happens. The people here can give you the tools to decrease the odds of it happening, but you have to listen and follow the advice. You sound pitiful with this "maybe I should just blah blah blah.." Yea, it hurts. We all know. It requires this much pain to get it through our LBSs thick skulls all the changes we need to make. Make permanent.
It's a rollercoaster. Most of my family and friends tell me that I'm doing well considering the situation, and I feel good most of the time. I usually post here when I'm on down the most. Most of the time, I realize the divorce is not going to kill me. I know I'm already a better person, father, and Christian because of this. It's the kick in the pants I needed to live the life I want for the rest of my life.
Originally Posted by RR17
You have to get your mojo back. For you. Your W doesn't like the spinless bata that you have become. Neither do you. Until you love yourself and become the guy you used to be, you won't be attractive to anybody that you want to be with.
True dat. It's slowly coming back. I have good support that lets me know that I have a lot going for me and I'll find somebody better for me. I've also become tougher with my W in regards to the divorce agreement and other things. I think building up a healthy bitterness and realizing that she's not my be all and end all has helped. I'll be fine without her.
Originally Posted by RR17
Stop this D talk with the W. Stand up to her. Stop negotiating. If she wants to make an offer tell her to send it and you will consider it. DON'T discuss the terms. She is using it to control you. You can be firm without fighting. Make her do it all and don't agree to anything without your own counsel. F her time frame. You still have to agree.
I already have the offer. I've been going over for the last two weeks. Unintentional stalling because today was the first time my lawyer was available. I'm going over the terms with him, and asking about my legal rights where I disagree. I do feel good about the child support (minimal) and amount of physical custody I'd get (slightly fewer overnights but many more weekends).
Originally Posted by RR17
Stop posting to social media. There is nothing that you can post that will change the way she feels. Nothing. Be a mystery.
I've started to realize this. Will not be posting on social media and will not be following her anymore.
Originally Posted by RR17
This could all turn around before it is too late. It can. I wouldn't rush to tell the girls.
This is where I get conflicting advice. Telling the girls seems to be something she's avoiding. I think once we tell the girls, it will make it easier for my W to proceed because the dread of telling them will be gone. Waiting buys me time--which people feel is important. However, I have family/friends that tell me that I should tell them ASAP. I think they feel I should move on because they think it will speed up the recovery.
Originally Posted by RR17
The time has come for you to be the man in this relationship. Forget the hope. Trust in God. Work on getting YOU back. I can tell you are failing at detaching. It's not too late to start. W will see it in your limited interactions. Don't engage her, don't read into any tests. Just do what you said you were doing. Detach, GAL smoke cigars. Leave the MR alone at this time.
Harvey, there's a couple things that stood out to me.
You said social media is the only way for your wife to see your changes? What? Social media is where you put your best, fakest foot forward. That doesn't mean squat to her.
And why aren't you living with her? I know you are in a move when BD happened. But if it is that important, move back. You do have a choice there.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Someone explained it this way: if you're sitting there watching grass grow, it looks the same every time. If you leave and come back 3 weeks later, look how much taller the grass is. That's the goal here.
Not getting her to say, "I see you got a new shirt." That's pursuit.
More like, "Hey, I hadn't seen you in a month, and when you came over I thought you were going to scowl at me, but you had this big smile on your face. You looked confident. And you smelled nice, and you looked good in that new shirt. I like that shirt, it reminds me of what you used to wear before you stopped caring. And why do you smell nice, who's your new lady friend who gave you that cologne? I'll cut her if she steals you away from me. Hey, wait a minute, I'm not done with you, I think maybe I might want to keep you around a bit longer."
Last edited by burned; 10/17/1807:49 PM.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
