just hanging 2 - help with WW

[toenail]

previous thread.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2815365&page=11

update...
went to see my IC today, and he gave me. very sound advice with regards to helping my D14’s R with WW. according to him, since am doing NC with WW, it is hurting my D14 in the long run, “monkey do, monkey see”. If I don’t talk to WW, D14 follows my lead as I am the responsible adult in her life right now. IC suggests to sit down with WW and tell her that we need to communicate better, as our NC is hurting D14. My question now is, do i do it or is this counter intuitive to NC?. i love D14 and i don’t want her hurt or ruined, and i also would like it if she has an R with WW. if i should do this, do i text her? email? handwritten letter? or just sit down with her? i would be approaching it this way, hopefully somebody chimes in:

LBH: WW i am angry and hurt at what you’re doing right now. you can call it what you want but for me and D14 we see it as an A. but i am going to be the better person here and let you know that we are destroying our D14 by not talking. We need to better communicate. If you can’t or you won’t we can ask a mediator (IC) to be in the middle of it.The way I see it, because I am engaged with you even for just a simple convo about D14, she follows my lead. So to stop the further harm that we’re doing to her, we need to change our dynamics.


i don’t want to appear weak, begging or pursuing, hence am here to ask for help.

[neffer]

Hey T, you can’t control your W. She is very WW at the moment and it’s up to her to set her mind on the recovery road.
IMHO I should not do what IC says. There’s no way to get any rational output with that attitude. Of course it’s just my opinion. There’s no need to expose your D to WWaywardness.

[toenail]

thanks e.
any advice is always a good one,
WW is already blaming me for everything, as you should know that. and WW’s R with D14 is , as of now, non-existent. and I would really like for the both of them to work it out. As you know, i am already blamed as to why D14 is acting the way she is towards WW. i guess what am saying if I do this, it’s a lot less burden on my part, because i am trying to broker a peace between the two of them, but my worry is, just don’t want looking like am begging, weak or pursuing.

Thanks nef.
D14 is very much already expose to WW’s waywardness, and D14 really feels that her R with WW will be non-existent as long as WW is irrational. as what I’ve stated above, just want to broker or a bridge between the two of them, because I feel like neither of them wants to budge.
.

[ovrrnbw]

I wouldn't tell your WW that. Just tell your daughter that no matter what your mom is still your mom, so be a good kid and follow the rules. Neither of you has to like her, but you always have that tie because of your daughter. So be the best Dad. That doesn't mean coddling or breaking NC with your wife IMO. Keep that up.

Plus the way you worded that "letter", it would have come off as an attack anyways. A perfect opportunity to take a shot at the W and let her know she is doing something wrong. Your W already knows it's wrong, but she will fight with you about it.

[toenail]

thanks ovrr.
that’s why am asking here how to word it so it doesn’t seem like am attacking her, which is btw not my intention. but the response am getting here is mostly not to break NC so am really leaning towards it. unless somebody can convince me otherwise.

[URE]

Don't do what the IC says. It will never work with a WW. Even if you phrase it perfectly, it will blow up in your face and she will misconstrue what you've said. I haven't had a conversation go my way in several months.

[toenail]

thanks U.
just feel very conflicted right now about what my IC said and the damage it’s doing to my D14. if it was just me, i would take his advice with a grain of salt and move onwards with my GAL/NC/180. but a life we both created is involved, hence the apprehensions.

[sandi2]

I'll toss in my two cents. When your WW cheated, it was a betrayal against her H. And, b/c she involved her thirteen year old daughter, the affair quickly became a family issue......rather than just a marriage problem between two people. Here's the thing about your wayward W. You are her number one enemy. She blames you for everything wrong that ever happened in her life. Her mindset is filled with resentment and disrespect for you as a man. She is rebelling against her H and against her M. The affair is a sign of that rebellion.

At this point, you cannot reason with her, b/c she doesn't think in logical terms. In other words, you cannot expect crazy to do anything other than more crazy. Therefore, any discussions, texts, emails, etc., explaining how the two of you need to parent D14......is only going to agitate her, and probably make things worse, b/c she sees you as her enemy. She blames you for D14 having issues about all that has happened. Your WW is not going to take responsibility for anything. She even blames her affair on a dead dog! (I think that is a first for me). But anyway, moving right along, she doesn't have much more emotional maturity than D14. WW's act very much like teenagers themselves. Although the WW still loves her children, they take a backseat in her priorities. The WW is extremely selfish. Everything is about her, and how it makes her feel at the moment. Her mind is always on herself. She doesn't "have time" to be a responsible parent, b/c her emotional plate is too full. She looks tired and run down b/c she's burning her emotional candle at both ends.

In the cases I remember, the WW will either try to act like she is her teenager's best friend, and show them how young and "cool" she is...……. or, she'll see them as an inconvenience and pretty much ignore their needs. She does not see how she is negatively influencing them, or she doesn't care enough to straighten up and act like a mature parent. Remember, she is like a teenager, herself, rebelling against her H and the M. She will forsake anyone who tries to stand in her way of finally getting the happiness she deserves. So, whenever communicating about D14, you need to try and leave out your feelings about WW, and don't use that opportunity to say negative things about how WW has caused these issues with D14.

I think, maybe the IC is seeing this as family therapy. IMHO, it will not work well when trying to get D14 and WW physically together before they can even talk to each other. It's like trying to have MC while the WW is having an affair. In other words, the mother is not "all in" and willing to do whatever is necessary to have a good relationship with her daughter. I am concerned what the IC is hoping to accomplish will fail, b/c nobody can depend up on a wayward to do the responsible thing. I think D14 needs IC just for her issues in this equation, but don't try to get her mother physically involved at the moment, or pressure D14 to do something she doesn't want to do.. (Some counselors act as if they know nothing about the mindset of a wayward). D14 is entitled to feel the way she does. Frankly, I think it is quite normal, considering everything. For anyone to suggest that she should feel otherwise, or made to think that the responsibility for the relationship with her mother lies on her young shoulders...….will simply cause her more resentment at this time.

Back to the stitch with your WW. I would tone down the "happy look" whenever you are at the IC's office. This is serious business, and you are not happy that your child has been dragged into this mess. You don't want to look goofy by trying to pull off some "happy" look in front of WW. Know what I mean? Keep it balanced.

IC suggests to sit down with WW and tell her that we need to communicate better, as our NC is hurting D14. My question now is, do i do it or is this counter intuitive to NC?.

I think you should just start texting her whenever it regards D14. No need for an introduction. Don't send the example you gave to the board. Your feelings are not the point behind the communication about D14. Pointing any fingers at the WW will produce bad results. Even if it's true, it won't get the results you wanted. It is all about D14's needs. I think it would be very difficult to "sit down" with WW and tell her anything........without it leading into the affair and other issues in the MR.

LBH: WW i am angry and hurt at what you’re doing right now. you can call it what you want but for me and D14 we see it as an A. but i am going to be the better person here and let you know that we are destroying our D14 by not talking. We need to better communicate. If you can’t or you won’t we can ask a mediator (IC) to be in the middle of it.The way I see it, because I am engaged with you even for just a simple convo about D14, she follows my lead. So to stop the further harm that we’re doing to her, we need to change our dynamics.

Okay, don't speak for D14's feelings about the stitch. This example above shows you and D14 as a team in opposition of your WW. The relationship between mother & daughter should be left to them to work out, and not for you to tie it to the MR (at this time), b/c it will get you nowhere. As a former WW, I will also tell you that by stating how you will be the better person will have a tone of self-righteousness to the ears of your WW. I just think it is unnecessary to say any of those things. Just send a post whenever it regards D14.

One tip I will leave with you...…..when communicating with WW, stick to one subject at a time. That will help keep the conversation on track and not wander off into other subjects.

You did the right thing by posting an example.

((hugs))

[toenail]

I think, maybe the IC is seeing this as family therapy. IMHO, it will not work well when trying to get D14 and WW physically together before they can even talk to each other. It's like trying to have MC while the WW is having an affair. In other words, the mother is not "all in" and willing to do whatever is necessary to have a good relationship with her daughter. I am concerned what the IC is hoping to accomplish will fail, b/c nobody can depend up on a wayward to do the responsible thing. I think D14 needs IC just for her issues in this equation, but don't try to get her mother physically involved at the moment, or pressure D14 to do something she doesn't want to do.. (Some counselors act as if they know nothing about the mindset of a wayward). D14 is entitled to feel the way she does. Frankly, I think it is quite normal, considering everything. For anyone to suggest that she should feel otherwise, or made to think that the responsibility for the relationship with her mother lies on her young shoulders...….will simply cause her more resentment at this time

hi sandy. thanks for chiming i’m on my sitch. as always your wisdom and well worded advices are very much appreciated.

you are correct in stating that D14’s IC use seeing this as a family therapy. I’ve been wanting to suggest to the IC that the dynamic between WW and D14 isn’t going to work as long as WW is having an A. And i think D14 has also mentioned that to the IC. WW doesn’t follow through with the advices that IC has given her. WW is i to this
notion that “if D14 doesn’t want to engage with me then i wont enrage her either”. That’s why it’s failing. WW wants D14 to accept that her A is justifiable because our MR is already dead. And once D14 disagrees with her or doesn’t accept WW’s reasons that’s when the “authoritarian figure” shows up. followed by yelling and screaming.

I would be suggesting to D14’s IC, that until WW is rational then she can just concentrate on D14’s issues about the whole equation.

IC is really family oriented. not that there’s something wrong with it. but i think they’re forcing the issue that if D14’s relationship with WW is non-existent, then it ruins her, D14, in the future.

[toenail]

update...
just got a hold of WW’s friend since high school, and of course WW told her the same sob story about how she was bullied, verbally abused and how i wasn’t there when the dog died. had to explain my side, which i really don’t have to, and i told the friend that she’s a rational person and she can form her own conclusions. at the end i told her that i contributed to 50% of the MR problems, but for WW to have an A is in her own.
i forgot to mention that this friend has also seen how WW and POS interact with each other, and it also bothered her but just didn’t say anything.
didn’t ask friend what her thoughts are, i don’t really care, but i also consider her a friend hence i have to converse with her.