The bomb woke me up, but she won't talk

[lusa]

At the weekend she brought up the issue of me moving out of my current place on 2 separate occasions. The first time she said she can’t believe I have given notice and am just presuming I will move back to the family home with no plan B or plan C. She then asked I think about it and come up with plans B & C to show her.

The next day she brought it up again, I think because I was clearing the attic and she knows it is linked to me planning to return. This is roughly how the conversation went:

W You can’t just move back to the home that lightly, we have to agree to work on the MR before you can come back and that’s not going to happen in the next 2 weeks.
It will confuse the kids if you come back and then leave again.

H I won’t leave again

W What if I need you to leave again after 2 weeks?

H I’ve changed, the old behaviours you found intolerable aren’t there anymore

W I don’t believe that, and I can’t see it. You haven’t shown me your financial plan or gone on an anger management course. You haven’t taken me out.

H Can I take you out?

W Yes

H Thank god for that (it just came out). You know I couldn’t do any of this because you have refused to discuss anything with me for so long.

W I had nothing to say to you. I don’t want to hurt your feelings, I think it’s best we co-parent separately. I’m scared that you are just being nice to get what you want and when I don’t give it to you, you will turn nasty. We’ve got on much better since we have been separated, but as friends.

H We have got on much better but it’s because I have woken up and because of my changes. True separation / D is such a big decision with huge ramifications. Don’t you think we should try to reconcile before making that decision?

W Instigating our separation was also a big thing that I didn’t do lightly. Where were you planning on sleeping here?

H If you have an issue with the MBR, then in the attic or on the sofa

W The attic isn’t conducive for sleeping and your not sleeping on the sofa. I remember when S14 was 5 (9 years ago) and saw you sleeping on the sofa, he said mummy I don’t think daddy likes you anymore.
(This is so typical of our conversations, she always brings up random incidents from the past that I’ve never heard before but make me look bad)

W If you move back in I will put the house up for sale immediately (and then corrected herself to “we” will put the house up for sale immediately, she's so entitled she keeps referring to all our shared possessions as hers)

W I get to decide who I want to share my bed with. I need to be with someone who I want to throw my arms around.

H Feelings can change over time

W They also might not

So there it is a difficult R talk that I made lots of mistakes in and am not proud of. It’s easy to not initiate R talks, but when she initiates and asks direct questions I seem to lose it and just blurt out the truth – that I still love her and want to R

Despite my 180’s she is constantly looking for any instance she can use against me and prove her decision to S was right. It’s such a steep uphill battle, I am ready to give up completely. There is so much resentment in her that has taken years to build up, I have to be realistic our chances of R are not even 10%. She’s made her mind up and she is very stubborn.

I feel it’s strange that we can have a conversation like this and then the next day she asks if we can go on a family day out on Sunday and if I will consider us all going camping with family friends next weekend.

So my plan is to move back in anyway and take whatever consequences that creates. I almost don’t care if she moves out or we have to put the house up for sale anymore. Even though I’m scared of the consequences I’m going to do it any way, I’ve had enough.

If this happened with her agreement, it would be much easier for everyone and she wouldn’t lose face. I don’t need this decision to be tied to our MR but she has made it clear she does. So I am going to for the first time initiate an R discussion and ask her if she will agree to me moving back and us working on the MR. I’ll provide the financial info, show her I’m booked on anger management and ask her on a date.

If she doesn’t agree I’ll tell her I’m moving back anyway and she can choose what to do about it.

[lusa]

i didn't have to initiate the R talk as she brought up me moving back. She basically said I can move back this week on a 3 month trial to see what happens with us. Then said she didn't want R talks, she didn't want me to sleep in the MBR, still needed space to talk to friends etc. She even said she didn't want me to follow her around I certainly haven't done that, or really any behavior like that thanks to this board.

She said she doesn't want me to see this as us trying but we can go out without the kids and spend time together, as we don't have much money ATM maybe for walks etc. She asked me not to pressure her to R and see if it happens naturally. So we are going to tell the kids that I'm moving back in as friends with W ATM.

She said after 3 months if things aren't better between us then she'll prefer to buy me out of the mortgage than sell the house. She said in 15 years there were some good times (1st time I've heard that since BD) but not nearly enough. And that even if I have changed, she hasn't.

I know I haven't come out of this with any respect and that is important. But I had to solve this financial issue, now I have respite from that situation I will work on rebuilding respect. I also need to properly accept the reality of D and love myself enough to properly know I will be ok.

I've learnt many things here that have really helped me change my behaviour, which has resulted in her offering this. Now I know I really need to pull more 180's namely on snooping & alcohol, DB properly and detach.

[hongaku]

Just keep DBing, lusa. Don't get ahead of her feelings and don't slip back into old ways. Consistency. Patience and perseverance. And even more patience. Read the validation thread again. Keep the pressure off and just keep earnestly working on yourself.

Yes, obviously accept the reality of D. But don't assume anything one way or the other. Be genuine and honest in your changes and you'll at least know you gave her the best you that you could and if she still doesn't come around, then it's ultimately her loss.

I applaud you moving back in the way that you did and although you think you didn't gain any respect back by doing so, I'm not so sure.

Keep at it my friend and you may yet be surprised. Rooting for you.

[lusa]

Thanks for your kind words Hongaku,

Well there was some immediate pushback from her the next morning stating things like "you need to look for somewhere else immediately", we will tell the kids this is very temporary while you find somewhere else etc.

D11 cried when W told her, W said it was because she was "confused" and I shouldn't be coming back like this as it will confuse them. The truth is she was crying due to W reiterating that even though I was coming back we weren't getting back together.

Then for the next 3 days she was really nice and we got on well, I slept there on the sofa one night as we left early for a family day trip. We've eaten together every night and I've helped W with her work.

Then just now she has called me at work spewing about how wrong it is that I am coming back, how confusing for the kids, how we've not naturally got any closer over the 6 months we have been S. (I pointed out this is obviously due to her EA). How we will never get back together and should have divorced years ago. How she now feels really stressed and trapped.

I just validated the best I could and said we should talk calmly about the options when the kids aren't around - she was anything but calm. I haven't been stressed or angry for a long-time, but she seems to often be like that now. This obviously isn't going to be easy - but it's my house too and financially I have to do this for now. We'll just have to see what happens, I'll keeping DBing and keeping remembering believe nothing that she says. I'd be on a terrible roller coaster if I did as she keeps completely flipping her attitude from day to day.

I'll just take a deep breath and carry on!

[lusa]

An hour later she's calls being nice asking me to come over and see the kids. I did this and she just was acting normally, chatty and cordial.Then I went to see my IC, who I have seen 3 times before, soon after BD. The first time with W and then on my own. Six months later I went to ask him about his anger management sessions, although ironically it is W that needs them, not me.

I told the IC what had happened to me internally over the last six months and about this board. It was the first time in six months I had just sat in a chair and told everything. He responded with what I can best call admiration and respect, the last time he saw me I was a pitiful, angry mess.

Some of the things I remember he said:

"Wow you've really done the work"
"it's rare for men to do the work you've done"
"I know you're not putting this on"
"You are in an authentic place"

He quizzed me about what I had done with the pain and we talked about really feeling it and moving through it.
I left feeling really proud and validated, what a great session. I'd recommend anyone who has never tried an IC just to give it a go if possible.

[hongaku]

The recent spewing is very likely a form of testing behavior on her part, and likely not even a conscious thing. She was almost certainly at a subconscious level expecting you to exhibit "more of the same" behavior - you being a pitiful, angry mess in response to the spew. You didn't respond that way. You did exactly the right thing in response. She will likely do this sort of thing again more than once. Just keep Dbing, lusa. I think you're doing great.

[AnotherStander]

Some of the things I remember he said:

"Wow you've really done the work"
"it's rare for men to do the work you've done"
"I know you're not putting this on"
"You are in an authentic place"

Awesome! That's great that he sees your changes. Your W will too, but she won't believe they are real changes at first. Because like your IC said it's rare for men to do the work you've done. So keep it up, and give your W time to believe.

[lusa]

Thanks for your encouragement AS. Her reaction to these changes so far has been to ignore them and then jump on any little incident or word said that she can use to prove I haven't changed. She'll repeatedly bring things like this up and I just let it roll off my back when she does.

I am back in the FFM and she has made it very obvious she isn't happy about it. I am pleased to say I am finally starting to feel properly detached from her. It no longer matters to me what she says or does, it has become easy to focus on just myself and the kids.

I have realised that the W I so desperately wanted to R with no longer exists. It's ironic that she doesn't want to be with the man I used to be and I don't want to be with the woman she has become.

[SteveLW]

Thanks for your encouragement AS. Her reaction to these changes so far has been to ignore them and then jump on any little incident or word said that she can use to prove I haven't changed. She'll repeatedly bring things like this up and I just let it roll off my back when she does.

I am back in the FFM and she has made it very obvious she isn't happy about it. I am pleased to say I am finally starting to feel properly detached from her. It no longer matters to me what she says or does, it has become easy to focus on just myself and the kids.

I have realised that the W I so desperately wanted to R with no longer exists. It's ironic that she doesn't want to be with the man I used to be and I don't want to be with the woman she has become.

lusa, wow, that is a very very astute final phrase in your post. I will be borrowing that one!

[DB346]

I have realised that the W I so desperately wanted to R with no longer exists. It's ironic that she doesn't want to be with the man I used to be and I don't want to be with the woman she has become.

Lusa, that is very well said. This is almost exactly what I said in IC this week (you just said it much better because I kinda fumbled my way to it). It helps to know there are others going through the same problems, feelings and emotions. Thank you.