Your actions betray your words about being strong and confident and you have nothing to lose. You're acting to her like you have everything to lose.
Also, I know about the anger part. This is the important part - there is NOTHING you can do about the anger. She has to process that and deal with that herself. All you can do is make it worse, but not better. The only way it gets better is if you get out of the way of the anger. She can project it as much as she wants, but if you let it off your back and disappear, then that anger has nowhere to go for her.
No matter what you try, if she's angry, it's not going to matter. It took my W almost a year to get out of her anger and rage, and she's still not out of it completely. I got out of her way. That's the only option.
You've gotten great advice here and you've ignored all of it. But, that's okay. The outcomes will speak for themselves when it comes around. And as I said, I hope you're right, but I will bet against your approach. All In with all chips.
The problem here is my wife has a very low self esteem that she is not beautiful enough and she cannot attract me towards her. I did not act to her making her feel like i have everything to lose. Sorry! She clearly said last time when we spoke, she does not want to be married to me as she doesn't feel loved or being wanted by me. Hence this is an unconventional case, where she wants just the opposite. A feeling of being cared for and deserved. However her heard will not open up as she no longer trusts me.
Yes, the anger may never go away. In my wife's case i expect it to stay forever . Forget a year or even 10 years. The trust and her anger issues are what is stopping her to come to me.
And i think i have said it clear. You guys may all be right. Put all your chips in. Like the movie "Inception" the end outcome is not something that really matters to me now. I am strong enough to handle life by my own regardless of the outcome!
Nutcrac, WRONG WRONG WRONG! LOL This is a WAW trying to let you down easy. It is like the GF breaking up with the BF saying "it isn't you, its me!"
She is projecting. When a WAW says "he doesn't feel loved or being wanted by me" that means "I don't love you and I do not want you."
You are believing what she says and you can't do that!
On BD my W said things like "I don't think you love me." "I don't think you ever wanted to marry me." "I don't think you can take care of me." SO WRONG, your situation is not unique and you are deluding yourself telling yourself that.
I don't understand that if you expect her anger will never go away how pursuing her can change that. But whatever.
I hope you are right about being ready no matter the outcome. I don't believe you otherwise you'd be taking a different tact on this. But I've said my peace. More times than I should. I leave you to do what you want. I will bow out since you don't want to hear it anyway.
Peace, and I will pray for you and your sitch.
A few things - 1) Why does she cry at her workplace restroom everyday? 2) Why did she roam around the marital home 4 - 5 times the past month since i left. 3) Why does she see our pictures together in dropbox secretly which keeps showing up in my recently viewed list. (I removed her dropbox access btw) 4) Why does the DB counselor / sandi2 think otherwise that she is also in love with me but too much pride to admit?
Like i said she is too stubborn to admit she loves me and she may never. I don't know. She does have feelings for me. But does not want to live with me. Its similar to the real life story of Jennifer carpenter and Michael C Hall (Dexter hero) when they married and separated. She cried on the interview set, when asked why she divorced Mike. She said she has a lot of respect for him, however they are not made for each other. My wife thinks exactly the same. Nothing wrong. She has sensed it.
When I said pursue - I never meant clinging and going and text rampage to the point it drives her crazy. I would do it slowly and steadily. A lonely woman at one point wants to feel deserved. Whether it is me or someone else time will tell. If its someone else i will let go off with less pain.
And definitely i value all your inputs. Sometimes we need to follow certain things in a non-conventional way, regardless of outcome.
Steve85, Its straightforward. My spouse knows that I have developed the kind of ability to let go off her. In the last 6 years i was an NGS clinging to her. By going dark/ NC I have proved, I dont have to have her all the time. Now she is a bit curious how i manage. And she is surprised as well that I have let her go that far. So if I have a glimpse of hope of talking to her again, and slow pursuit, without ANY HOPES or EXPECTATIONS from my end, I am ready to accept the outcome either ways!
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Maika - I am not trying to be argumentative or giving wrong inputs. I agree that I am a newcomer and may not be as experienced as many of the forum members like you are. All I can say is every stitch is different. The timelines for NC/Dark are different. Spouse expectations for a MR is different. In all cases the spouse is wanting to leave. Some may reconcile and many usually never. Because this depends on the mindset and the actual MR and how it went through all the time. NC/ going dark is a very subjective approach. Lets assume for discussion purposes, if you had a fight with your wife and you went dark for 6 months, when you contact her back, she will usually remember the last state you left her with the argument and miseries and she will question you on that. However, during those 6 months, if you confidently approach her with NO expectations, listen and empathize her and hear her heart, that builds / bridges the communication. All i say is keep No expectations, just listen to her. You dont need to do NC / Dark for long time. Be confident in every approach without being needy. If she says get out after a fight respect her feelings and go and don't cling on. My wife was asking for space, and she felt that in house space was not enough. Hence she moved out. Now she is feeling lonely and deserted. Yes she is still angry with me. But at the same time, she feels i abandoned and ignored her. That is a small sign which shows she had enough space - "do something". Now that is the tricky part on how the LBH can handle. He can do something by going further dark / NC or he can emotionally connect with her and empathize her feelings. All i can tell you is that at this time the WAW had no idea what she wants and still in a dilemma. By you being confident and show what you can do to bridge the gap, it shows your strength as a man of courage. Your WAW will appreciate it inside of her although she may scream at you outside. If you listen to her shouts and her scream and become afraid and give up, your WAW thinks that you don't want her. Allow her heart to release the frustration. Who knows may be she can open up more or may be never. You all have criticized me on the other post of being needy, selfish, stubborn and all this. Yes I may have all these qualities. But without these qualities, I still have the courage to stay strong and expect the worst. I really don't care if anyone wants to listen to my advice as a newcomer. But I can tell you one thing. No one is more better than understanding his/her own situation than you. I may give you 100s of advices, but you know your stitch best. I know my stitch best and so does ballast his. So despite all the suggestions in this forum, One thing stands out. You do what is best for your stitch based on your current circumstances and be strong and confident!
SOrry Nutcrac but this is all very dangerous territory. The vets here call what you are suggesting and what you are doing in your own sitch as the illusion of action.
WAWs/WWs want space. You have to give it them. In my own sitch I didn't make any headway until I let go to get her back. We are now in piecing and R. Detachment is about giving space. It is about doing the opposite of what your instincts tell you.
Doing nothing is sometimes the best thing to do! I've told others in these sitches, pressure and pursuit will result 99.5% of the time in the WAW/WW running the other direction. Only when you remove all pressure and pursuit, and only when you start detaching will they start taking steps toward you. But even DBing right only gives you a 50/50 chance, and it takes time!
Where LBS go wrong is in getting impatient, giving up DBing, pursuing and pressuring. This pushes the WAS/WS away faster than anything. Especially when you DB'd well and started making progress.
Also: "Your WAW will appreciate it inside of her" this is simply not true. Pursuit and pressure does not make her appreciate it inside, outside, over or under or anywhere else.
Steve85,
I respect your advice, I have taken many of your suggestions and even applied it. I have also seen that you strongly believe in Sandi2's techniques. For example you are simply assuming my WAW is a WW. This is not the case! She is true to herself and I know her well. You should really go back and read many of Sandi2's post for my situation and how her suggestions and her opinion is different from you and many other experts in this forum.
Agreed sometimes doing nothing is the best thing to do. However, Will you do it forever?
I am doing none of the negative things here. I am not giving up DBing, I am not pursuing her, nor pressuring her. In regards to the withdrawal decision, I am standing my ground. And I am just changing the process of going into limited contact vs being dark. I expect to maintain friendly contact and try to build the emotional connect. But however I don't expect to be friends with her forever!
SHowing up at her place with sweets is pursuit AND pressure. Sorry, but I won't hijack this thread.
I will respond to false statements you make then in other people's threads:
"I want to be very clear with my position here - I AM NOT AGAINST DBing. ALL I AM SAYING IS THE STRATEGY FOR DBing SHOULD BE DIFFERENT FOR WW vs WAW. ALSO I AM NOT SAYING PURSUING FULLY IS THE WAY TO GO. YOU NEED TO GET THAT INTO YOUR THICK HEAD. "
This is wrong. The overall approach to WAW and WW is the SAME. Detach. 180s. GAL. Be the best spouse you can be. NONE OF THAT CHANGES!!!!
There are a few differences. WWs need tougher love. They need to be kicked out of the MBR if they are cheating. You do not validate their feelings if their feelings are disrepectful.
Other than that the approach is THE EXACT SAME.
I do not assume a WAW is a WW. I've said dozens of times on this board that not all WAWs are WW!! However, WWs come in many different flavors, and sandi2 will corroborate that herself. Many are in EAs and PAs. Others are into partying and acting like they are half of their age. Others are full on GGW.
But regardless. Detachment. 180s. GAL. Be the best you can be. And when the situation demands it (like when a WAW LEAVES the marital house), LRT!!
Steve85, I know my wife better. She has too much anger. The sweets thing does not show that I am pursuing. Do you think just by taking sweets to her would have changed the situation while i was actually thinking of a TRO in my case? It is just a normal greeting gesture in our culture. Nothing of a pursuit.
You clearly point out the differences of WAW vs WW. That is what I am talking as well. Sometimes a WAW also needs tough love if she is disrespecting you too much. In my case it warrants. Only for a while. And then you may have to tame them distantly like a lion in a circus. This takes patience and practice.
LRT is something that i have been following all the while. And now the only change that I am doing is just limited contact rather than a full dark zone. I have not deviated anything seriously from the normal process of DBing. A few changes here and there. Mistakes are expected to be done by LBH. and everything cant go smooth. There will be hiccups here and there.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Came here to bring the discussion to your own thread Nut, so its not flooding Ballast's
I have nothing else to say in regards to your tactics and your sitch, as i have given my opinion, and that isnt going to change.
Best of luck, i will be watching your sitch to see how it goes. I do hope your strategy works out for you.
Thanks OrangeK. I appreciate that. All i am saying is i am just like any other LBH here. We are all pretty much in the same boat. Your opinion and advice is appreciated. In fact I don't have much hopes in my situation as well. I admit it. At the same time, I wish to set a timeline to the whole thing so this does not drag ON forever. So hoping to see how that goes.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
NC - My W never raged at me, never yelled at me, never disrespected me in front of my girls, didn't do a lot of things that you read about on this board. Make no mistake though she was done. She was a respectful WAW/WW in that sense but she was done. She went about it the nice way. She killed me with kindness and in many respects I fell for it. I moved her out of the house into an apt, I gave her money from time to time, I moved her from her apt into her permanent residency, I helped her pick out TV's for her new place, she would invite me out to dinner and all the while I thought maybe there was some hope, that maybe she was moving closer, I had no proof of OM so maybe she was starting to come around.
Two week ago she told she had a BF and they are now exclusive, she had been dating since about 3 months after she moved out, and just got a boob job on Monday.
Stay dark and go NC.....if she wants to return to the MR and work on it she will let you know.
I would also not set a timeline......you will know when your ready emotionally. It took my EW 8 months from the time she moved out to tell me she wanted a D. I firmly believe it took her that long to find her current BF and I was plan B all along. She just kept everything a secret from me and since we were separated I never snooped.
Sorry to hear that Joseph9! But I can tell you one thing for sure. Your wife had was not in a dilemma when she left you. She was very clear of her mindset that she is going to move on 100% and not going to come back. I dont think there was ever a plan B in her mind. However my wife's situation is slightly different. She plans on being a single woman for a long time to come, 2-3 years down the line, and possibly wants to adopt a kid. At this time she is very confused. Hence she is having second thoughts. When she met my friends she did disclose although I was a great person in her life, she can never have me as her husband. In fact If my wife says that she met a new person, I will be very happy for her. I will wish her luck and move on. I am no one to stop her. At least I am hoping that she could disclose me that info sooner unlike most other WWs who cheat here.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
It seems a major hurdle you need to clear is believing everything your wife is telling you.
"Believe nothing they say and half of what they do"
you need to assume she is lying to you man, and i can tell you based off of the things you have posted that she said, she IS lying to you. Often, and blatantly. She tells you "i dont plan on dating for 2-3 years" and you believe that?
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
It seems a major hurdle you need to clear is believing everything your wife is telling you.
"Believe nothing they say and half of what they do"
you need to assume she is lying to you man, and i can tell you based off of the things you have posted that she said, she IS lying to you. Often, and blatantly. She tells you "i dont plan on dating for 2-3 years" and you believe that?
It could be manipulative or a straight lie. You never know. It appears that way, Yes. But as of now she does not have anyone in her heart. She is just too broken hearted. I think she needs to heal from it first, which itself will take a long time. Like some of the behavior about her, I posted it in your thread. And she does have some BPD, narcissistic qualities. However, you just cant treat them with medication. If she is going through so much of pain now, she does not have the proper mindset to even give her own life a chance to move on. That is where some level of emotional connection is required. Rather than abandoning her. It could be like meet her sometime once in a while, just be stringent with the time, meet at your own terms and plan to leave first. You can be emotionally safe with no expectations. She can also think over and keep safe. And leave the rest to faith!
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
She plans on being a single woman for a long time to come, 2-3 years down the line, and possibly wants to adopt a kid.
My EW told me she had no desire to ever get MR again and that dating and being with another man was not even on her radar.
You can not believe anything they say only actions.
Could you tell me if your wife was married before? Was this your first marraige? Had she dated others before your marraige?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
