Suspect PA - should I confront with this evidence?

[LH19]

Real quick:

Do not vomit your feelings on her that is not masculine energy.

Do more research on “dropping the rope” it’s not something you try out.

[KitCat]

I would keep moving forward as you have been and not bring up R talks... it hasn't been that long.

Its hard I know but patience is the key.

[joejoe1]

When your W is ready she will bring up the R or M talk. You keep moving forward.

If things don't change by mid summer you will drop the rope, why?

What would be your reason for dropping the rope if things stayed steady through mid summer? Patience is the key. IMO you should reevaluate mid summer if things don't change but not drop the rope.

It's great to have a plan. IMO, take it a day at a time. Live today, don't worry about tomorrow and let the past rest.

[GettinT]

Thanks for a replies, much appreciated!

Do more research on “dropping the rope” it’s not something you try out.

I did not find any thread on that, but will look for more info!

What would be your reason for dropping the rope if things stayed steady through mid summer?

At the moment there are no signs that W would want to continue in relationship with me. Yes, she is committed to MC to find out IF something would start to move inside of her, but I have not yet seen any evidence of that.

I just feel that if there is no progress until summer (if nothing has started to move inside her towards me/us and she just wants out), what more can I do? The past couple of years I have been doing everything to save our marriage and I am emotionally quite worn.

I understand that I just need to continue detaching and healing but I know my wife, and she does not want to live limbo any longer. If she has not find her feelings towards me, she wants to be free to follow her heart, even towards other guys. I don´t think she necessary would do that, but I don´t think she could commit to be faithful to me either.
And if she cannot commit to that, what else could I do than "drop a rope" and continue forward in my end? If my wife opens the possibility for her to date others, shouldn´t I just admit that "that´s it"?

And if in some later stage in life if she and I happen to be available and having feelings towards each other - who knows what happens...

Am I totally off track here?

[KitCat]

If you feel W in not into R yet then most definitely do not initiate R talks.

You set your own timeline.

But, remember your W needs time to see that any changes in you are true, genuine and stick.

So if you are wanting to save your M... keep following DB and GAL and work on yourself. Continue to detatch.

You will notice signs of W wanting to work on R but note that I think putting a deadline of this summer is in my book too short a timeframe from what you listed were issues in your M. That really isn't enough time for your W to see that your changes are for real.

Good Luck

[GettinT]

KitCat,

Maybe I went a bit ahead of things. My mind is already planning my actions at the point where I see my wife wanting to start a single lifestyle. Honestly, I see that coming when our planned sessions to MC will end at summer (if she still has same mindset than now).

I do want to save my marriage, so surely, if she don´t start dating, I will exercise patience.
What it comes to changes, I think she recognizes that I am different man that I used to be. She has just "fell out of love" with me and wants to feel the emotional connection with me before she can think starting over again...

[KitCat]

By all means set your boundaries on what you feel you can and can not deal with... If WAW starts dating then I'm done. Fine.

However, STOP trying to predict how she will feel at X point in time. You have no idea. And, the only person you can control is yourself.

Don't think for a minute that if MC ends that the end of your hopes to repair your relationship. You might be surprised that you have WAY more control your M improving than any MC does.

If I had relied on MC - I would be divorced. Worst experience in my life. We got 20min of her time and she said she didn't want to see us again and that we were a waste of her time.

I am hear to tell you - I saved my marriage.

So start working and keep working on your issues. Continue GAL. Become the H you should have been and then let your W see what she would be missing.

[sandi2]

My biggest concern at them moment is that what is the best level of revealing my feelings and talking about R.
As I have said, I don´t have any expectations, but since she have said (as I written in previous post) that she would need to learn new way of being with me, I initiated the date with her and proposed that both of us just comes in as we are - no learned behavior patterns if possible (hardly I guess).
I have not said ILY or anything like that, but due to my neglecting history, I have shared my thoughts and feelings more than some might suggest, in other words I have been quite open to just try that out before dropping the rope.

Just a few days ago you were saying:

In addition to the MC, we have one touchpoint weekly where we discuss R matters.

And previous to that post, was you describing how you had revealed all your feelings to your W in MC. Today, you are still wanting to pursue your W and talk more about your feelings. Have you considered that your W does not care what you feel? And if she doesn't care, then she doesn't want to hear you go on & on about it.

I won't take time to copy and paste the various quotes to try and show you what I mean, but to summarize.......I think your W is feeding you a lot of babble. In other words......b.s. She is cake eating to the max, b/c she gets a week with her kids, a week to do whatever she wants without any accountability, and you pay the expenses. All she does is attend MC sessions, where she feeds you more babble......and you play along with whatever she wants.

Look, I get you were negligent in the past. I get that you are sorry, and that you are head over heels in love with her. I get out desparately you want to be with her, how you think she has become even more beautiful than ever.......yada, yada, yada. But you aren't getting the fact she doesn't want to have an exclusive MR with you. Perhaps she has tried to tell you, but you aren't hearing what she says.........you are hearing what you want her to say. She wants to date other men. You foolishly tell yourself that she is not contacting OM, but truthfully, you don't know what she is doing. It is what you choose to believe!

Not only are you not detached, but you are obsessed with the belief that if you two discuss your feelings enough.....it will eventually bring you together again. Frankly, I think she's stalling for time, b/c she laid out her terms and you took hook, line and sinker.
As long as you are picking up the tab, why wouldn't she dangle you along? All she has to do is sprinkle a few crumbs and suffer through a few sessions of MC, and she gets her bills paid.

I don´t know if it matters, but I have started feel that my W is not that much of WW, but WAW (loss of love). Yes, there was PA, but that was initiated by emotional needs. She has not had that much of GGW behaviour that I have understood WWs usually have and she is very committed with the kids. As said, don´t know if it affects anything, but this is how I figured it out.

And finally, the classic move of thinking this woman is not wayward, but a WAW. You can make excuses for her PA, claim she really didn't have too much GGW behavior, and she's a wonderful mother.........if that helps you to cope. Actually, I could (and did) make the same claim that my H neglected me and I had an A out of emotional need. I did not act like GGW, either. Did I have a loss of love? Yep, pretty much! Was I a WW? You betcha!

Here's what I learned about the whole "commitment" issue that waywards want to resist when first talks of reconciling begin. Without commitment, there will be a loophole, an excuse, some reason the relationship just can't work. You and your W can spend years in MC, but I have doubts of its success without commitment. I think you are trying to talk her into committing, but she needs to make that decision......free of you pressing her about it.

At this point, I think you probably need to stop finding a label for her that suits you. I suggest you end MC and seek IC with a different therapist. You need to heal and figure yourself out, before trying to figure her out. Put time and distance between the two of you. Free her to "grow" as much as she likes, while you learn to do the same. Then later down the road, maybe the two of you can find your way back together. But for now......you constantly wanting to pursue and have more R talks with her, is only pushing her away and hurting future chances.

If you intend to be healthy in this "journey", you need to stop your obsession.

However, I need to admit that this story is not in my hands unfortunately.

That is true, so why not let it go?

[GettinT]

Thanks for encouraging words!

So, this is what just happened:

My W went to American Car show with kids and BFF (WW she hangs around a lot with).

She sent me a message asking a practical question, and I replied and asked if they had fun at the exhibition. She replied yes, was nice to see all those old cars and hear that 50´s music (her parents had this 50´s lifestyle when she was a child).

Then she sends me the following message:
"But an awkward situation happened: daughter badgered one teddy bear when my ´affair partner´ threw himself into the scene (yes, she put affair partner into quotation marks)... He heard that daughter wanted the toy and paid it to cashier... everything happened so fast and I got frightened that he was suddenly there so that I could not say anything... when daughter asked who that was I lied that he was (BFFs) friend... I really did not know he would come there!! I did not expect that at all!! I´m sorry "

First I was just silent, but when she asked me to comment it, I texted that I felt bad about it and that it was odd co-incidence. She replied that probably she had mentioned about going to that exhibition when they had A, but since she have not had any contact with him since, he should not have known which day/time my W would go there. I said I don´t want to communicate by texting, but since kids were there, she asked if we can have a call tomorrow.

I don´t know what to think... She might tell the truth or not. I have tendency to believe that if she would have wanted to meet him, she might not wanted to do that where my kids are, but rather when is her week alone. But who knows. Yes, it was nice that she pro-actively told me, but even if she really did not expect to see him, would she have mentioned it to me if my daughter wouldn´t have seen him?

Let´s see what she says when I talk with her tomorrow. My first reaction was just that f*ck it, I deserve something better. All the painful memories of A and lying about it came back. I thought that just do what you want, I´m done with this BS. I want a woman who wants to be with me.

Well, I needed to vent a bit here, but I need to admit that I´m frustrated. How have you guys coped with frustration?

[GettinT]

Sandi,

just saw your last post, and I think you are right. I will read it through with a thought and come back.