In a nutshell, my profile is down there at the bottom. After a long period of neglect, definitely classifiable as a "sex-starved marriage", my W began EA with a close friend last October after I had gone to him for help with my M and basically revealed my W's vulnerabilities. There had been warning signs-- she had come to me a couple three times over past two years telling me how sad/lonely/lost/dead-inside she felt, and I pretty much turned it back on her every time, though one time I did ask her "not to leave" when it looked like she was going to. Anyway, BD in January when I overhear convo between her and OM.
I was weak and desperate at first, but within less than two weeks after BD was really doing a great job with GAL's and 180s, and W noticed. Problem was, she was not a WAW but rather a WW, wanting to enjoy the single life, "girls gone wild" lifestyle with her single/divorced/separated friends, particularly her bff, also a WW(curiously enough, married to my own bff). I didn't handle my interactions with her all that well for a few weeks, wavering between "pursuit" and enablement. Finally got buckled down, though, and GALs and 180s really kicked in and W noticed.
Looked like A was going to or had even already died of natural causes... and then something happened. Still dont' know what. A meet up or night out or party or something and it rekindled. W bought a burner phone which I later found out about.
Beginning of June I tell her my boundary that "I wont share her or live in an open marriage". She indicates that cheater phone is gone and she will NC with OM. There is a big blow up night only a week later where she, I and her bff (who, it turns out, is now a good friend of OM and a major enabler my W's A) had too much to drink, said too much, and my W ended up sneaking out after we went home to meet up with bff and OM. She did NOT know I knew about this, and I did not confront her thinking we could "use a reset" based on events. I do put up some surveillance on her and late June, not long before we are to start intensive therapy, I "catch" her in two fairly intimate/emotional encounters with OM.
I go dark for four days during which she pursues me relentlessly. She finally corners me into a talk where she talks about all the things SHE did wrong in our MR that led us to this point... and then I tell her what i know about her and OM. She then takes several steps (without promising me full transparency or committing fully to working on MR) that lead me to believe she is really "Trying" in her own way. This turns out to be false as of 7/23 when I find out she has purchased a second burner phone and she confesses to fairly regular text and phone contact with OM. I walked off and left her at car that night, slept in separate BR, etc. and pretty much "go dark". She keeps after me by phone and text for two days, eventually corners me into a convo, says tearfully that she is sorry she hurt me, that she had been "working up to" cold-turkey no contact with OM (a self-contradiction, yes) and that she had called OM to break it off and destroyed her extra phone (heard that one before) and that she wanted to work on trying to "figure us out." I tell her that it's not going to be that easy, that I am not sure that I can or should trust her and not sure that I want to try to work things out any more.
A week later (8/1, I think), I confront OM and, in an ugly exchange, tell him I know everything and to stay away from my wife and family. While somewhat cathartic for me on some level, this brings back a lot of pain and hurtful feelings/memories for both me and W. We talk about it and she is still bothered by thought that she has "hurt" OM and that he may have been further "hurt" by my confrontation. She also says she is "not sure" what she wants to do about us. I listen but say little. That weekend, we talk again, and I reiterate that "maybe we need some time on our own" and she says (for what seems like the 20th time) that she is tired of all the "pain" and "negativity" and wishes we could just push the "reset" button and let "Monday be Monday and Tuesday by Tuesday without all the painful relationship talk." She also thinks we should just try to "be in the moment" and "try to have fun". I tell her that I am not willing to keep living with the uncertainty, that I am still not certain I can trust her, and that if she wanted to, as she said, "work on figuring us out" I would need some things, including solid assurances the OM was "gone" and to know that she was committed to the process and that we'd get professional help.
At that point, she starts behaving in exemplary fashion. She pretty much doesn't leave the house unless its with me, is letting me track her phone, did not even ask to see her bff (until very recently), and started coming by one of my GAL hangouts where I was going once a week after work. After the discovery of second burner phone, we slept apart for a while but eventually she joined me in 2nd BR and we have been "sleeping" (that's all, sadly) together ever since.
We have progressively been doing more and more things socially, and generally having a lot of fun, and she had been gradually warming up to me, evidenced mainly by increased comfort with me, increasing willingness to touch and be touched by me, and inviting me to do some things she used to do alone, (even shopping.) Unfortunately, though, we are still kind of in a limbo where she does not see the utility in rehashing or working through the pain we caused each other, and would prefer to just go out and "have fun" and see if "lightning can strike" and she can get those romantic, intimate feelings back. She says that everything now between us is as good as or better than its ever been, except for that one missing piece (sex/intimacy-- yes, a big piece). She has agreed to go back to counseling, including IC, which I told her was a must, but we have only had one session and that mostly planning. MC said we were going to have to a)work through some of our individual issues in IC 2) Do some work on forgiveness and trust and processing the hurts we had caused each other and 3) Get comfortable with the idea of physical intimacy between us which at times is kind of awkward and weird under the circumstances. Both MC and DB coach's suggestions basically amount to "just do it" (not necessarily sex, but any physical contact.) W agreed that 1 and 3 were necessary, but is still gun-shy about 2. We had a couple of really, really good, fun spontaneous nights, including a fair amount of physical contact, hugs, us falling asleep holding each other.
Over last week to 10 days, however, she has experienced a set-back/pull-back. She has been quieter, withdrawn, kind of moody and sullen, and definitely less warm and friendly. This period came right after her losing a close friend from college to a sudden heart attack, followed closely by toxic bff calling her from OM's bar with OM and crew in attendance to "say hi" to her. On the call, she was in tears, but admitted she "really wanted to be there" (she does not know I know about this convo.) The night of the afternoon she had that convo was our really good night out where she started out sad and quiet but really livened up by end of evening (she even through out a couple of playful sexual innuendos) and we fell asleep in each others arms. Other than that, though, last ten days have really been a downswing.
At this point, bff definitely looks like the biggest problem/hurdle, but bff is a lifelong friend and someone who, despite bff's very questionable lifestyle morals and decisionmaking, my W trusts... probably more than anyone including myself, and bff is definitely preaching the positives of divorce, single-hood, and the OM. She recently "reconnected" with bff (who lives an hour away but journeys here weekly for work) after about a month of layoff, and I have consented to her visiting the one time (where she to all appearances behaved herself). BFF clearly went way over the line last Friday though with the intentional call from the OM's bar to try to entice my W to come out and meet her and OM (my W declined, but admitted she "really wanted to" and then also declined a dinner invite from bff for later that night and then again the following day... but she is wavering I think, and has been in a funk ever since.)
For my part, and GAL, Feels like I've actually made a lot of progress personally, even if my M is not. Some of that has stagnated as I have made more time to "be around" my W while she is going through withdrawals from the OM/A, and because I have felt funny about going out "on my own" when she is intentionally NOT doing so.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
This was Sandi2's most recent take on my sitch, which I thought was very insightful:
Quote:
Well, sounds as if she's had a setback, alright..... which is understandable. Her best friend is adding a lot of pressure to her struggles.
What I suggest you do is to be as much fun as possible, and show PMA around her. No pressure from you.
Although the BFF has been a powerful influence, I believe at some point your W will be able to see her for what's doing to the M. Your job is to be strong and give loving support to your W. Lots of validation at this time. No fault finding. No advice in what she should do, unless she seriously asks you. And the really tough one......don't talk down about the BFF.
If you point out what the BFF is doing, it could cause your W to go into defense mode. It's time for your W to make some very hard decisions. She obviously doesn't want to be the position she's facing (thus her comment about being in a box). She feels the pressure. She's depressed. Keep her as busy as possible doing enjoyable activities, but don't smother or press too hard (if that makes sense). If she starts getting angry, back away.
Maybe a family weekend trip away (this coming weekend) would help. If not possible, have some activity planned.
I believe the next two weeks will be critical for her. Who she turns to, and the decisions she makes. As I said before, she may have to contact him one more time. And if she does, be ready to walk.....unless she can convince you she is really over OM and will part ways with BFF. That's JMHO.
I hope the MC can help.
We have a MC session set for this evening. Praying very, very hard that it is helpful.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Do you really think they did not communicate during that month? Why would they not have stayed in contact?
They did stay in touch, but it was much less frequent. BFF was away alot, at family out of state and then visiting her AP in Florida. I still see the phone records each month (I monitor my kids' usage about once every week or two so I am not all that troubled by sneaking a "peak" at her phone records-- she knows I am checking and I assume would naturally figure I'd peek at hers as well), and while they were in touch then it was nowhere near as frequently as it is now (multiple texts a day and usually at least one or two phone calls totaling up to an hour.) For those few weeks there were times they'd go three or four days without talking. One time I think it was 5 (after Friday's incident, I went back and checked the records for past month or so). It definitely seemed to ramp up at the point where my own bff got fed up with my wife's bff (his STBXW) and her crap and said "see ya" and took a sabbatical (he owns his own business) to Florida... Where he promptly began a relationship with my W's BFF's AP's W. (follow? This set off a real S-storm, and my W's BFF, who just a week before had been saying how "amazing" her STBXH was being through all of this (all of this being her sleeping with his then-best-friend, indicating she was going to run off with him permanently, and oh by the way I'm taking the kids to Florida) then started throwing a continuous temper-tantrum and trashing my friend (and his friends, including me) to anyone who would care to listen. So I would assume a fair amount of the increased communications involve her complaining about her H and the divorce proceedings (which are moving very close to being final.) I try not to discuss it with my W because, even though she grants that "what bff did was wrong and everyone knows it", that is now in the "past" and everyone should just try to be happy, but her H is now being difficult, ignoring the kids, etc. etc. She (my W) is obviously only getting one side of the story here, but she is not at all interested in hearing the other (I tried once, failed, and haven't tried again-- honestly don't want to get mixed up in that S-show.)
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Stop Bull$hitting yourself. Your W is an adult and can make her own choices.
You keep doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Einstein called that INSANITY.
LH19, thanks for the input, but with all due respect, have you been following my threads recently? While granted I did not handle the initial or even middle stages of this at all well, there is at least some hope, now. Even Sandi2, who is as hard as they come and who carries as big a 2x4 as anyone, has said so.
Doing the same thing? I have switched up so much in the last month it isn't even funny. Stopped monitoring (until JUST the past day or two which BOTH DB coach and IC and Sandi2 said would be appropriate in a measured fashion to check up on her periodically), Stopped pressuring, started validating...
Exactly what are you saying I am doing wrong right here. I am always open to suggestions but I see none here...
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
It definitely seemed to ramp up at the point where my own bff got fed up with my wife's bff (his STBXW) and her crap and said "see ya" and took a sabbatical (he owns his own business) to Florida... Where he promptly began a relationship with my W's BFF's AP's W. (follow? This set off a real S-storm, and my W's BFF, who just a week before had been saying how "amazing" her STBXH was being through all of this (all of this being her sleeping with his then-best-friend, indicating she was going to run off with him permanently, and oh by the way I'm taking the kids to Florida) then started throwing a continuous temper-tantrum and trashing my friend (and his friends, including me) to anyone who would care to listen.
Get out and GAL like gangbusters.Be mysterious. Go on that camping trip you been talking about but don't give details. Don't feel bad about leaving her behind.Stop being her male girlfriend (going shopping etc.) Only do things with her that are fun and may lead to sex.
Reader's Digest Condensed Version: Two couples, four friends of ours (or former friends, depending on who stands where, our respective best friends married each other about two years after we got married). They basically swapped spouses. Really effed up situation.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Only do things with her that are fun and may lead to sex.
You've never had shopping lead to sex? You ain't doing it right...
Seriously, though, been doing a lot of GAL stuff. Fairly well documented in previous threads. Not doing as much of that now because I have been advised I am in a stage now where, for a number of reasons, I shouldn't be leaving her home alone to go out on my own. Now, thankfully, she has usually wanted to go out and do things with me when I have gone, but I have not been the constant party animal/mysterious missing presence I was for a couple of months. Staying "close" to her has limited some of my GAL initiatives (though I still lift four times a week and play basketball once a week, neither of which she joins me in-- though she was a college player, point guard, at the D-3 level and could certainly probably out-ball me if she wanted, LOL) and re-focusing on our younger son who has Tourrette's Syndrome and who has had a bit of a setback in recent months has also created a time squeeze.
Still got a few things up my sleeve that I want to do if she pulls back or falls off the OM bandwagon, though: Rediscover shooting as a hobby (yes, I know, bad timing, but I grew up in the country on a farm, owning guns, and have missed just going out and slinging lead at inanimate objects); Get back out on horses (rode some as a kid, and would like to have some land when I retire and horse to ride it as a utility animal-- I hate ATVs); and learn to dance. Bonus of all these is that in addition to being things I want to do, they are all things that, if she does stay on the straight and narrow and we ultimately reconcile, she has said are attractive to her at some point or other and would like to try (except for dancing-- she's already an amazing dancer). And then maybe skydiving just because everyone I know or hear from (including on here) who has done it says "You GOTTA do it."
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
This set off a real S-storm, and my W's BFF, who just a week before had been saying how "amazing" her STBXH was being through all of this (all of this being her sleeping with his then-best-friend, indicating she was going to run off with him permanently, and oh by the way I'm taking the kids to Florida) then started throwing a continuous temper-tantrum and trashing my friend (and his friends, including me) to anyone who would care to listen. So I would assume a fair amount of the increased communications involve her complaining about her H and the divorce proceedings (which are moving very close to being final.) I try not to discuss it with my W because, even though she grants that "what bff did was wrong and everyone knows it", that is now in the "past" and everyone should just try to be happy, but her H is now being difficult, ignoring the kids, etc. etc. She (my W) is obviously only getting one side of the story here, but she is not at all interested in hearing the other (I tried once, failed, and haven't tried again-- honestly don't want to get mixed up in that S-show.)