The physical separation isn't even possible at this point. That's why I am seeing this lawyer to het this process rolling. Sandi says that as long as the A is active the W will never respect you and I can clearly see that happening. They may not be in physical contact, unless OM has been sneaking into to town. But it's definitely an EA.
She's claiming that they are friends, but haven't been in communication. But phone records prove that to be a lie. Only option is to get rid of her or she'll view me as a joke. As time goes on the disrespect increases. Woke up this morning to find that W did my laundry, so I honestly have no clue what is going through that head if hers. Almost makes want to reconsider postponing things with this lawyer.
Tread, you and me seem to be in somewhat similar sitches. WW had/having what is likely an EA, POSSIBLY ending it or having already ended it, W keeps tossing crumbs but not acting like she is ready/willing to move forward with any work on MR and commit completely and fully to giving up the extra-marital relationship. No obvious path to separation and some overlay from the kids with whom you'd like to keep having family time.
Of course, looking at it clinically, separation of some sort, for your peace of mind and to get off the merry go round, but also so WW will know she could actually lose something here, seems like a good idea, but how to get there? I am in a similar sort of stuck place as well. FWIW in my sitch the past couple of days I have simply pulled back. I lay claim to the guest BR (weird-sounding, I know, and not the MBR, but it has the much better bed/mattress that both W and I prefer, and it is not a mess/wreck at the moment) and have stopped being as responsive to her. The family time angle is difficult because S18 is getting ready to go off to college in two weeks and is already stressing about it alot, so trying to avoid laying a big scene on him at the moment, BUT... I am going to start tactically withdrawing from such "events" starting tonight when W wants me to "go shopping with them". I plan to have other plans. Perhaps a little disappointment to kid here and there, BUT... think how disappointed your kid will be if you and your W split. Maybe better to endure a little disappointment now, in hopes that there is a bigger relationship payoff down the road. Not to mention which, if you do end up splitting, your son is going to have to start getting used to the idea of doing stuff with his parents separately, and your W should start to have to come to grips with implications of your split on your child.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Your right about needing to spend time as a family. W has been able to avoid having explain why dad isn't around doing family things. I seriously need to pull back,I just didn't want S13 to suffer, because his mother has lost her mind. Saddest part is that the three of us are actually great and having fun together. Feels like pulling back from that might be me taking it out on W somehow.
I know what Sandi says and I think she is most likely correct. Having said that I think the more crucial part of what she says in there is focused on "respect". If she claims to be friends yet is mean and cold towards you or goes to hang out then obviously something else is going on.
On the other hand, if your W is ashamed of what happened and afraid etc...maybe she needs time. Her shift from violence to trying to be nice (page 1 on this thread) could be a sign of that. The challenge is that you don't know for sure if she respects you. Her actions should kind of offer insight into this.
As to your kid that is the real tricky question: part of me thinks the child should never have to suffer and if you have to lie so be it. Is she a good mom to him? If yes, then go for it. If no, then well then she doesn't deserve your kindness.
However, you also disclosed what her IC told you. To me that tells me your W needs help and she either doesn't recognize that or isn't ready. So removing yourself physically from the home might allow you to enjoy a quiet evening (maybe pick up S to go do things together).
But that requires you to exercise incredible amounts of patience, grace and compassion. Comparing to my sitch I had to do that and it was already excruciating at times but I received warmth back from W. It doesn't seem like you receive it on a consistent basis. It seems...one day she is nice and the next she is cold. That is a roller coaster you cannot risk your sanity on.
But filing for a D also doesn't seem like it's really what you want to do. Your W might even shrug it off. So go do fun things, make her miss you, involve your son so she feels maybe that she is missing out. Let her take the step to express that she wants to be involved and maybe allow her every now and then. That might be a gentle way where she realizes what she will miss. Sitting on the couch watching a movie with all of you won't do that.
Thanks for the great advice. Spending more time alone with S13 is definitely the key. She is a good mother for the most part. Other than wanting to break up the family for OM. My W actually had the nerve to tell a friend "At least I was good parent for the first 13 years." Basically choosing d*ck over our child. I don't want a D for various reasons. But she continues to cross those boundaries and I am looking like a joke right now
Respect is everything as Sandi mentioned. And right now I know she doesn't respect me. Yes there are spurts of warmth, but what does that mean if OM is still in the picture? Do I trade respect for a few moments where my W acts like a decent human being to me? I would love to keep showing compassion and all those things you mentioned. But unless there is a way to combine that with gaining her respect, I don't see that happening. Those are clearly being taken as weakness.
Well, I just confronted W about applying for an apartment. Told her weeks ago that we should talk about major decisions before any of us does anything. Especially when it involves money. You ask her a question and she simply stares at you with a dumb a** look on her face. Its like what I say just goes over her freaking head. Then she states that "You wanted me to leave." So I respond "When you said you wanted a divorce, I clearly assumed that you wanted to leave. So I'm giving you what you want."
This woman looks me in the face and says "But I never said I wanted to leave." So at this point, I'm holding my head in my hands. And I simply ask what is it that she wants? Once again the look of defiance. And a refusal to answer a simple question. Once again I ask what is that you need me to do to help you achieve your goal? So she finally answers "I want you to work with me work on this divorce process."
So guess what she's going to get her wish, starting with my meeting with this lawyer tomorrow evening. W is going to learn to be careful what she wishes for. Going to start with moving all of her stuff out of the MBR and into the office. Going to make things real official for her. W had the audacity to say that she doesn't like me following her around and looking over her shoulder. I haven't done those things in months. But every time I walk into the room, she's hiding that damn phone. Because she knows she's up to no good.
Then had the nerve to ask about me about keeping an eye on everything she does like the bank account. Told her "You damn right I don't completely trust you. You lost that trust when you decided to keep in communication with OM. You showed where your loyalties lie." Then she had the nerve to tell me that she wasn't in communication with OM. Which I know is a lie, unless she stopped talking to him recently. But I know they were communicating back in early July.
And to think for a brief moment I had doubts about seeing this lawyer tomorrow. Thinking that maybe I should be more patient. But some people don't respond well to kindness. You have to be harsh with them, because that's all they know and have proven to only respect that type of behaviour.
The lies and the 'I don't know' and the twisted logic all seem to be par for the course, don't they? It is a bit like a child who seems to fundamentally not get that x action produces y consequence.
At the same time as seeing that real consequences are important for them to see, I think one doesn't have to be harsh per se. Just matter-of-fact. Harsh is normally because we're angry or frustrated with them. Matter of fact comes with detachment and not feeling responsible or trying to protect them from those consequences.
It makes sense to see the lawyer and it doesn't commit you to one course of action. It is just using an objective third party to help you think objectively about your options and how to protect you and your son. As for working 'with her' on the divorce process? Well, that's your choice and there may be things you have to take responsibility for to protect your family. But, part of that for most of us seems to be about deciding 'whose' divorce it is...if it is hers and you don't want it, why is it your job to work with her (which really means 'do most of it for me in a nice way as if I was still your H/W)? If it is your choice, then how you handle divorcing her is your business.
I'm so sorry that you're in this sitch. I remember the first time I saw my L over a year ago there was a bit of me that just could not believe that I was having this surreal conversation about us, about OUR M. I cried like a baby after the meeting.
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
I wonder what would happen if after she said "But I never said I wanted to leave" instead of becoming frustrated (which I totally understand why you would feel that way) that you could say something like "but you kind of choose to leave by being involved with OM" OR less threatening say "I don't want you to leave either and I don't want a D either but I cannot accept you continuing your A with OM"
Not saying she is not sincere when she said "I want you to work with me work on this divorce process." but we know we cannot trust anything they say and half of what they do.
I would let her take the lead on the divorce process but offer to support her in that process. Unless you really want to be done then of course you can take the lead.
But something tells me that there are two people who are desperately trying to make it work but instead of coming closer they do exactly what needs to happen to further the gap. I could be wrong.
But some people don't respond well to kindness. You have to be harsh with them, because that's all they know and have proven to only respect that type of behaviour.
What exactly do you mean by this? Are you saying that by pushing the D through, you will be harsh to her?
If so, it's what she thinks she wants, it won't be harsh to her, in fact she will probably appreciate you doing all the work so she doesn't have to do any heavy lifting to get what she wants.
My suggestion, let her move out, go DARK. I mean, before she leaves, set up schedule for child, and do not talk to her at all. No texts other than emergency, any other necessary communication try and do by email (less personal than texts). Don't do anything to help with D, only do what you are required to do based on actions she takes. Just go dark.
Wanna be harsh, go dark, GAL, and be a great man and she will have to live with divorcing you if she does.. that's harsh.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
I see where your coming from. But she denies all involvement with OM at this point and I know that's a lie. And by saying that I don't want you to leave kind of goes against me being form when she continues to cross boundaries. To her it would come off like I still got him. And I don't want her feel that way. I am up for working things out. But not as long as she displays this type of behavior.
I plan on allowing her to take lead, but if she starts dragging her feet. Won't hesitate to push her in the right direction. Not going to continue to put my life on hold for liar and a cheat. Not going to cover or lie for her when it comes to S13 either. If he asks why all this is happening then so be it.
