It most certainly feels like entrapment. She most certainly cares about public opinion (has always had self-esteem issues) and has openly said that she sees that a lot of her "validation" comes from social media.
As far as scripted mode, I have caught myself a couple of times hearing some phrases from these boards come to mind and have immediately backed off. The one that kind of caught her attention was "I am going to move forward with my life with or without you." Which I think mainly caught her off guard because for the first time she realized that I have thought of life without her. She also had complained in the past she only felt like I "needed" her because she was the only woman who had ever loved me (my mommy issues), and I explained that I "wanted" a life with her, but that I would be just fine on my own. Self-confidence is not something I lack, and she knows this.
She has always been hypersensitive, and one that does not let go easily. She is not an apology and move on kind of person, it takes a lot of action to move forward with her. Which is fine, I am willing to do that (and have w/ the porn.). However, she lives double standard in that she wants the world to forgive, but I should simply take "i'm sorry" and move on.
Her complaints are mainly that "I get so mad at her all the time." I validate by saying "I understand that you think I am mad, and I am sorry that is how you feel, but I am not mad at you." She feels like when I get quiet and avoid the fights, that I am being passive aggressive. I may have grown into a type of "nice-guy" over the years, but that is mainly in part to control the anger that could explode at any moment. I have learned to control myself over the years, but may have taken it too far and taken too much.
We are in MC once a week, and she willingly goes, and from what he says "our R has become toxic, due to the porn and the A." So we must remove the toxicity before we can begin to rebuild. He is of the opinion that our old marriage died, and it is time to rebuild. He specializes in A recovery, so I think we are in the right place as far as that goes.
I see some of the mistakes I have made, and am currently rectifying these as we go. However, there is definitely knit-picking also because she feels so much guilt (this is a killer for her) and tries to take the light off of her sins.
I see what you mean by not having both feet in, and looking back, she normally lashes out when I bring up something she may have some guilt about. I.e. Facebook. That has always been a complaint of mine, that she spends more time on there than paying attention to me. When I brought that up last night, there was no reason she should have been upset about my words, but she saw that I noticed she was on there constantly during dinner, and felt guilty for it.
I know of one friend (a younger girl who works for her) that is more about being a "fun friend" than encouraging an A, or pulling her away from me. She only sees the stress in my W life and tries to help relieve that (she doesn't know my W caused her own stress).
Her family all tells me the same thing (I don't go them for advice), they just know the sitch and tell me, "put her out on her own, let her see what she's missing." I also know that blood is thicker than water and take that with a grain of salt.
She may be in contact with OM, but if she is she knows she can only carry that guilt for so long or before I find out. Also, she has changed her phone habits tremendously (she leaves phone around me, offers for me to see it whenever) which i know means very little, but it is far better than the activity when I know the EA/PA was going on.
I guess, Sandi, my main thing here is trying to let her heal herself, and be supportive, but also not laying down and being walked on. Just trying to find that balance is the hardest part for me.
I keep going back to what you said early on in my posts about her being so lost and never feeling like she can be in love with me again. I just struggle to make sure that I be the best I can be for me and my S, but also to let her know that I will fight for US.
Thanks for all your help!
LW
Me-35, W-31 T: 12 M: 11 S5 BD: 11/2016, Wants Divorce Divorce off table 1/17 EA (11/2016)/PA (3/17)confirmed Status Unknown as of 3/29/17
Since she is not feeling the way she use to feel about you, it scares her into doubting those feelings will ever return. It just takes time to heal. If we could see the emotional damage the way we can see a physical part of our body destroyed..........maybe we could see how the healing was progressing. Even if she is being honest with you, her feelings cannot "snap" back.
My advice for you at this point, is not the same that I would tell a H who had a W that refused to work on the M. Just want to clarify this for anyone reading this thread.
LW - Sorry for borrowing your thread for a follow-up with Sandi. Feel free to use mine anytime!!
Sandi - Curious what the difference would be for a H who had a W that refused to work on the M in the above example? I know this is a gigantic issue for my W that she has to deal with (doubt that feelings would ever return). How should I approach?
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
I know of one friend (a younger girl who works for her) that is more about being a "fun friend" than encouraging an A, or pulling her away from me. She only sees the stress in my W life and tries to help relieve that (she doesn't know my W caused her own stress).
LW - My W has one of these too and I'm glad she does to try and eliminate some of the stress. Only concern is too much "grass is greener" thoughts here.
Originally Posted By: LW2381
I keep going back to what you said early on in my posts about her being so lost and never feeling like she can be in love with me again. I just struggle to make sure that I be the best I can be for me and my S, but also to let her know that I will fight for US.
It seems like your W knows that you will fight. She knows through your actions, your commitment to counseling, etc. Keep the focus on you and your S.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
Use my thread ANYTIME, you have helped me so much, it's the least I can do.
The "grass is greener" idea my wife has used as her reasoning (not excuses) many times. I just worry that my W sees how freely this girl lives (she's 24, just married, no kids). She hasn't hit real life yet. She still gets to party and go and come as she pleases, I know her husband (we're friends) and that will come to a crashing halt any day. I don't think this girl would ever encourage an A (as she doesn't know the details completely of our R), but she may not stop one either.
My W definitely knows I will fight for us. However, when I told her I'll be okay with or without her, she went into either panic or temp checking mode, and made sure there wasn't another girl or that I still wanted this R. I told her, "you are what I want" but "I won't lay down in the floor and stop living if you leave." That hit her pretty hard, but she still can't carry on a real R conversation as she "doesn't know or can't say what she wants for sure." Her whole life has been driven by fear, and that is what is driving this now. I hate to tell her that once she leaves the comforts of someone who protected her for almost 12 years, everything else becomes a lot more scary. She may have to figure out the hard way.
Me-35, W-31 T: 12 M: 11 S5 BD: 11/2016, Wants Divorce Divorce off table 1/17 EA (11/2016)/PA (3/17)confirmed Status Unknown as of 3/29/17
It sounds like a bit of mind reading going on here. How does your wife definitely know that you will fight for your marriage?
It sounds like your changes have been noticed, just difficult to believe at this point. These changes need to be made for you and your son. They need to be long lasting and sincere. Prove that to yourself and anyone else through your actions, not your words.
Little compares to the devastation people feel when they discover their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal. Healing from infidelity is achievable for both of you with the right support and tools.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
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Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
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My W definitely knows I will fight for us. However, when I told her I'll be okay with or without her, she went into either panic or temp checking mode, and made sure there wasn't another girl or that I still wanted this R. I told her, "you are what I want" but "I won't lay down in the floor and stop living if you leave." That hit her pretty hard, but she still can't carry on a real R conversation as she "doesn't know or can't say what she wants for sure." Her whole life has been driven by fear, and that is what is driving this now. I hate to tell her that once she leaves the comforts of someone who protected her for almost 12 years, everything else becomes a lot more scary. She may have to figure out the hard way.
I came close to saying something like this yesterday when we were talking about our "new norm". I almost blurted out that I'm not concerned about meeting someone else (last time I was crushed and couldn't imagine being with anyone else), but I'm just in it for the 4 of us.
I stopped short because of not trying the pursue here when I know she needs space. She was taken aback when she noticed I took of my wedding ring even before she did hers.
Honestly, if D happens and I'm dating again, I'll find that fun and I'm ok with it. I just honestly think there is so much good in our family unit that it's worth all this and just sticking through my "no regrets" policy I'm going with.
Keep it up LW!!
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
I'm with you, completely. Our family unit is remarkable together, but S is starting to pick up on the dissension b/w me and W. We absolutely leave the room if it starts to get heated (not his fault nor problem), but none the less he knows. Kids are astute at picking up on this stuff.
The wedding ring has been up and down for me...believe it or not, that has been one of the hardest parts for me. She doesn't wear her engagement/wedding ring (made into one years ago), but she wears another ring on that finger...a cheap one she bought. Don't know how to take that, bc she says it matches her gold jewelry and "the one" is white gold/platinum (this sounds like pure BS to me), but she wears a ring on that finger still. I wear mine sometimes (depends on my mood), but this has been part of detaching from the most awful roller coaster ever. Regardless of what she is feeling, I decide in the morning if I am there are not. Probably childish, but this helps me deal. If she has noticed (she probably has), she hasn't said anything. Part of me wishes she would say something, anything.
Makes me think of something else, a failure perhaps. Sunday night, the day had been up and down, but we were in a good place. She got home from shopping with her sister, and I mentioned "I'm going to run some errands." It was 8:30 on a Sunday night, so there wasn't much I could've been doing, but I just really wanted a reaction. I got one, "really, are you leaving, where are you going", I said, "just out for a while". My S said, "daddy where are you going"? She said it loud enough for him to hear, so he asked with a sad face. Well played on her part (she can be a master manipulator), so I said "nowhere, daddy will play with you and put you to bed." Screw her, it was about us at that point. But she did get me to stay. Just though about that, I feel like I've been had.
Dating will not be an issue on my part (as far as finding someone). I hate to sound wrapped up in me, but that is truly not my fear, I can find someone else, I (like everyone else on this board who is willing to fight for what we want/believe in, is a catch.) But more than anything, I want HER. I have no fear of not finding someone else, I have come to grips with the idea that I am a good guy and will be fine. However, I can't lie, especially to people who are in the same spot as me, this is the girl I want, bar-none.
That said, no regrets Tryin, keep up the fight. I guess just not at the expense of our own happiness or sanity.
Me-35, W-31 T: 12 M: 11 S5 BD: 11/2016, Wants Divorce Divorce off table 1/17 EA (11/2016)/PA (3/17)confirmed Status Unknown as of 3/29/17
Those words my separated wife says to me all the time too. Be careful, my SW is living in our house (I"m staying at a friends to give her space) and she is constantly talking to and seeing OM. Those words to me mean "I can't make it on my own yet" Good luck
I have to agree with this. It really stinks when you're the safety net, you KNOW you're the safety net, and the other party acts like you don't know what you're talking about.
I've also discovered "I can't do or say anything right" is code for "I'm going to blame you because my lie didn't work."
This is so true, but truthfully, it makes me feel a lot better to know that when that comes out of her mouth (and it will, again and again), that it is really not me or you, or any of us, it is on them, and they have "a lot of monkeys, and a crazy circus."
Be Well- LW
Me-35, W-31 T: 12 M: 11 S5 BD: 11/2016, Wants Divorce Divorce off table 1/17 EA (11/2016)/PA (3/17)confirmed Status Unknown as of 3/29/17
