At this point the new information doesn't really hurt at all. It just is what it is. Just more pieces to a puzzle to get a fuller picture. I have an analytical mind so more information puts it at ease. OM's W is the same way and she's just trying to corroborate different information to see if he's still lying. If WW and I talk, any information I get from OM's W will do the same for me.
I can understand your line of thinking. I was like that for a long time as well. It took me a long time to accept that there are things that Ill likely never know, questions Ill likely never ave the answer to.
I dont really agree that it's more pieces to a puzzle. The puzzle is already finished. Your W had an affair. The details are far less important than the background information. "What did you do" is much less important than "why did you do it". Id highly recommend the TED Talk about infidelity by Esther Perel. To me, you are collecting extra pieces - like trying to complete a 100 piece puzzle with 200 pieces. All that will do, in my opinion, is prolong your healing and make it more difficult.
WW unexpectedly texted me yesterday, a rare event.
WW: Are you home? Me: No why WW: I have some time and was thinking about coming by (Sounds encouraging, right? Before all I'd get was "Coming by the house to get some things") Me: What for WW See my dog, get some stuff (So not encouraging. At all.) Me: Can come by tomorrow. You wanting to talk? WW: What is it you want to talk about Me: You don't want to talk? WW: Depends Me: On? WW: What you want to talk about WW: Why can't you just say Me: Just apologize about some things. You have anything you want to say? WW: I already would have said what I wanted if I thought I could trust you Me: What did you want to say?
No reply to that. Then I realized I misinterpreted what she was saying. She didn't mean she had anything she wanted to talk about but was just stating that she doesn't trust me.
She said she didn't trust me on 1/10 when she was at the house as well. I'm sure it stems from how she knows I have audio recordings. It's still offensive that she sees that as a huge violation of trust but all the lying and cheating that she did apparently wasn't. Can't see the forest for the trees. So it doesn't seem like she's really out of the fog and is still irrationally angry at me.
Not sure if she'll be coming by the house tonight but if she does I will have to be very calm and make sure I don't get upset if she makes comments like that. Initial reaction is to say "Trust ME? Look at what all you did!" So I need to make sure I bite my tongue, smile, think, validate, move on.
WW didn't come by. I texted to ask if she was coming and she said "Not today". So I asked when and she said she didn't know and that she was having car problems. I asked what was wrong with the car and she said "Why do you care". A bit of time passed and she said "If you want to talk we can just talk on the phone". I told her I'd rather face to face and she wanted to get some stuff from the house anyway.
She then started to soften and I saw glimpse of the woman I knew for 14 years for the first time in 3 months. She told me what was wrong with the car. I asked was there even anything she needed from the house (she's gotten most things she'd "need"). She said "A little". I asked why she wanted to come to the house then. She said "I had time". I told her she had time every day and to just be honest.
She said she wasn't sure what I wanted to hear and kept asking why I thought there was another reason. I told her it was just a hunch because I know her. Then I came out and said "You're feeling bad and not wanting to get divorced". She said "Is that what you want" I asked when she started feeling that way and she said she didn't say she did. So I said nevermind. Then she asked how I felt.
I said "Let's cut the crap. Is what I said true?" She said "I feel bad. That part is true. But we both know it wouldn't work. Us together." So I asked why. She said "I've tried to explain it before, not to mention how much more complicated it is now". I said she made a lot of mistakes and she said she was aware. She said she didn't plan things to happen the way they did. I said I recognize the things I did to leave the marriage vulnerable but that didn't excuse what happened. She said "I know".
I told her I still missed who she was but didn't know if that person was still there anymore. She asked what I thought she's changed. I said "The things you said to me, about me to others, how horribly you treated me, all the lying to me and others, the complete abandonment of all of your values, morals and self respect". She said "Everyone makes mistakes. Doesn't mean I don't have those things." I said "A mistake repeated becomes a decision" she said "I guess so".
She then was saying she should have left sooner and she woke up to a lot of things all at once, feelings she'd repressed to make the relationship work. We talked of how we grew resentful to each other from not getting what we needed out of the relationship. She said me treating her how she needed to be treated wasn't natural for me. I validated but disagreed.
So she feels bad and knows she made mistakes. Whether "feels bad" is guilt or is remorse, I don't know. She made it sound like she was interested in not getting divorced but then said other things as if it was for the best. I'm not sure if that was just defense mechanisms to try to get me to argue the opposite. It's noteworthy that she never said she was sorry. I apologized for my actions in the marriage in not giving her what she needed. She said she appreciated that but never mentioned anything about how she never tried to connect with me on my needs. Just that I had 7 years to treat her better. I don't know if these are baby steps to appreciate or just further proof she'll never change and be able to accept responsibility for anything she does since that's always been the case in the relationship.
So she feels bad and knows she made mistakes. Whether "feels bad" is guilt or is remorse, I don't know.
It's noteworthy that she never said she was sorry.
I think you answered your own question.
It's strange to me that you keep wanting to have these M/R talks with her. Honestly, I dont think it is helping your cause, but thats just my opinion. It looks like way too much pursuing on your end; I think if she wants something to change, she can come find you. You shouldnt be asking her 'whats wrong' 7 times.
I would now take this opportunity to go back into your tunnel. There was a large exchange where you planted some seeds. Now its time to let them germinate.
Brizz I think you are pursuing her with these talks. You'll find that once you start to try to change their mind by logic and reason she will no longer feel safe enough to open up to you. I also have a very analytical mind and I caught myself doing the same thing in my sitch. I always thought that if only I could reason with them they would understand how wrong they are when in reality they have to come to that conclusion on their own. Let her start the R talks. Just be patient and she will initiate those "talks" when she's ready.
- M:32 and WW:31 D4 - Married 5 years, 11 years together - ilybinilwy 9/28 EA Confirmed + request for divorce - 10/16 Affair ended - 10/28 WW wants to reconcile after I agree on divorce - Current - Piecing
^ Yep. Nothing will make them run faster than trying to "reason" with them over the talks. Nothing.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
I know, I know.. I'm trying to very delicately balance how much of a "follower" she is by nature since not pursuing at least a tiny bit will most likely cause her to never speak to me. Seriously. After she was busted and kicked out of the house on New Years day, the next time she was over she angrily mentioned how I hadn't even reached out to her. As if I should have been reaching out then and not her.
Case in point, that text exchange was the most productive talk we've had in 3 months. I honestly didn't expect at this point to get that level of calmness and honesty from her. Am I going to be reaching out every day now and ask how her day is, how she's feeling, etc. No, not at all. But like Kaizen said, I think that seed needed to be planted and now it can germinate.
I don't post much, but I have been following your thread. My sitch went down a lot like yours and I must have had that EXACT conversation 5-6 times over the course of the first 6 months after BD. I will tell you that I also felt that "something" was moving forward because I'd finally get some validation from my XW. I will also tell you this sense of validation is extremely fleeting. Lastly, I will say that shortly after these conversations, my XW would so something that would damage our relationship even further...it was like clockwork, every...single...time. Usually took about a week.
The worst part about finally getting validation from the WAW is that it gives you hope...not that there's no reason for hope, but that there is hope in the specific conversation that you had with her which makes you think they are coming out of the fog.
I'm with everyone else here. I think that you should literally let her be the only one that reaches out...period...and do this for a couple of months.
Sorry, I don't mean to be a downer. Just be patient...
ME-37 W-34 T-8 M-4 ILYBNILWY BD: 8-31-2015 EA suspected - 11/1/15 PA confirmed - 1/22/16 W files for D - 2/4/16 D - 8/9/16
Case in point, that text exchange was the most productive talk we've had in 3 months. I honestly didn't expect at this point to get that level of calmness and honesty from her. Am I going to be reaching out every day now and ask how her day is, how she's feeling, etc. No, not at all. But like Kaizen said, I think that seed needed to be planted and now it can germinate.
Hi Brizz,
It is hard to tell the level of honesty coming from her. Based on her most recent history, you can't believe any of what she says and only half of what she does.
Be very cautious regarding reaching out to her everyday to see how her day is and how she is feeling. This is pursuing her in a major way, which is likely to backfire on you.
Originally Posted By: KevinIn
I'm in the same situation. I want closure and she sees our marriage as a closed chapter. However, I'm DBing which means im ignoring my need for closure, applying 180s and LRT, and talking to a DB coach. That is helping more thwn my counselor.
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I don't post much, but I have been following your thread. My sitch went down a lot like yours and I must have had that EXACT conversation 5-6 times over the course of the first 6 months after BD. I will tell you that I also felt that "something" was moving forward because I'd finally get some validation from my XW. I will also tell you this sense of validation is extremely fleeting. Lastly, I will say that shortly after these conversations, my XW would so something that would damage our relationship even further...it was like clockwork, every...single...time. Usually took about a week.
How about 12 hours? She texted me this morning and basically said she felt bad about hurting me but no remorse and that she's "made peace with it". That the order of the events wasn't ideal but I'd have been hurt even if she had just left. She said she catered to everything I wanted (not true) so she was unhappy. She said we weren't compatible because I didn't want to do the things she wanted to do. She only listed traveling. I stopped responding.
