[my ex told me this was the most selfish thing she had ever done, and she's correct.]
OH - YES, YES, YES!! Jeep74, you gave me the biggest laugh of my day!!! Your quote above is EXACTLY what my H said to me! Verbatim. SOOOO FUNNY!! Is there a WAS manual somewhere I don't know of!?!?
M: 49 H: 47 Son: 8 DBomb: Dec 9, 2016 H moved out: Jan 24, 2017
[my ex told me this was the most selfish thing she had ever done, and she's correct.]
OH - YES, YES, YES!! Jeep74, you gave me the biggest laugh of my day!!! Your quote above is EXACTLY what my H said to me! Verbatim. SOOOO FUNNY!! Is there a WAS manual somewhere I don't know of!?!?
Haha. Crazy, eh?
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
Think about that for a minute. Not your defensive explanation. But just think about that.
What am I thinking about??? How is my explanation defensive? Why are you now defending my wife? Are you OM? I wanted her to think very highly of herself, just not compliment herself. I find boastful people to be obnoxious and rude. Why are you so on my case?
M: 33, W: 30 @BD M 7, T 10 BD: Early Dec W left: Late Dec W got stuff: Late Jan W sent S papers: Mid Feb OM cnfrmd: Late Feb
Pain can yield tremendous growth OR everlasting sadness and bitterness.
Dude, stop and step off the ledge. Am I on your case because I don't tell you what you want to hear?
Where did I defend her? Please explain, sir.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
Think about that for a minute. Not your defensive explanation. But just think about that.
What am I thinking about??? How is my explanation defensive? Why are you now defending my wife? Are you OM? I wanted her to think very highly of herself, just not compliment herself. I find boastful people to be obnoxious and rude. Why are you so on my case?
Wsh - I notice in a lot of your posts there's a "yeah, but" to them. Here's the thing, if your wife felt it, then it was real TO HER. Theres nobody 'defending' her, instead, what Jeep was trying to do was for you to look at those words from your wife's point of view. You say "i didnt mean this or that" or "It wasnt in that way" or whatever. But like I said before, I think you need to look at things from a different perspective.
If your wife felt demeaned, then you were demeaning. It doesnt matter what your intent may have been.
Now, going forward, it isnt about what you say to her. It isnt about taking blame. It isnt about apologizing.
It's about BEING THE CHANGE. How can you take the valuable information that she gave you and mold yourself into the man you want to be? Im not saying every item on her list has merit. I am saying that you need to filter it so that you can set goals for yourself to make personal change.
Sandi, is my wife a horrible monster, or is she deserving of forgiveness? Can the lying monster, that treated me like I was Satan for being neglectful, ever truly be trusted again? For 10 years, she was a great girl, for all that I know anyway. She had a temper, but I knew her to be of very sound moral character, and to be a mostly compassionate person.
It takes me way too many words to thoroughly answer your first question. I'll try to shorten it. If you see an untrustworthy and immoral character in your W, then you can't really rely upon the pursuing/coaxing/persuading techniques that your hurting heart pleads for you to do. If she is a wayward, then that means she has lost respect and harbors a lot of resentment toward her H. It doesn't usually happen all at once, but over time there were unresolved/disappointed issues pushed down into her heart. She either failed to communicate it, or you failed to hear it or didn't know what to do about it. Eventually, the resentment takes root and grows into feelings of disrespect for her H. By the time the bomb drops, she is acting out in rebellion toward her H/MR.
She is not that sweet girl you married. You can grieve for that girl, but you cannot treat this woman as though she is that sweet girl you married. In order to draw this woman into a MR with you, she must feel respect for you as a man/husband. Until she really respects you, she can't feel authentic love that a woman has for her H. That's one of the differences in men & women. The woman's desire/love is tied to her level of respect for the man. This is why a wayward wife will often say in the BD, "I love you but I'm not in love with you". At best, she puts him in the friend zone that guarantees nothing deeper in that relationship. She no longer has that type of feelings for him, and until she respects him......it isn't going to happen.
Is she a monster? She can often act like one. Can she change? Absolutely! However, it often takes a lot of work on her heart/attitude/mind-set. It's not something most people look forward to doing. WW's think it's easier to just start a new relationship with a new person, rather than doing the hard work on their M.
FWIW, you have received advice to help boost you on your way of reinventing yourself. I want to encourage you to watch youtube or join classes or read pertinent books..... whatever it takes to give yourself a balanced, fulfilled life. You put everything into your wife! She could have felt responsible for your happiness, b/c you had no social life, no friends, no activities......just her. That's a lot for one 30 yr old woman to carry. She can't respect a man who is so emotionally dependent upon her. That is the situation you have put yourself. You were content to stay in your cocoon. It will take you to get out of it. No blame on anyone else. Nobody is responsible for your happiness, but you.
FWIW, you are not responsible for her decisions. You both failed at something at some time.
Does she deserve forgiveness? How does a person deserve forgiveness? They can't work for it, b/c then forgiveness would be wages earned. Forgiveness is an act of grace. Currently, she doesn't even want your forgiveness. Until she feels remorse, she probably won't seek forgiveness. So, don't send her a letter expressing how you forgive her! Right now, you cannot trust yourself to talk with her about anything like this.....b/c you are still looking for the magic bullet, and there isn't one. Give yourself time to experience the emotional stages of the LBS.
Trust is another issue. After betrayal, trust has to be earned. The wayward spouse should put forth effort to gladly prove they can be trusted again.
I believe it's possible for this M to be saved! I think a lot will be determined in how well you drop the emotional you have tied around her.......and how well she sees you being a strong, confident, man that she has lost.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I believe it's possible for this M to be saved! I think a lot will be determined in how well you drop the emotional you have tied around her.......and how well she sees you being a strong, confident, man that she has lost.
Wanted to follow up on this. If there is OM and her family is also against him then how will she even recognize any positive changes in him? Even if she does then would she even care? Better yet, would she even care enough to want to return and work on the M? Yes, self improvement is what needs to happen and I agree that he needs to release the emotional attachments he has on her. However, not for the M, but for himself in case she doesn't find her way back.
M: 37 W: 36 T: 16 M: 11 D2: 8,3 PA: 2015 WAW: 2016 W Filed: 2017 2/07/2017 W officially dating OM2
Possibly the clues of respect is found within OM. What the OM provides are the areas of respect? My Ws first reaction about OM to be was he is a man who is in her life more. His attitude towards his daughter, his works in art and dance, his academic career, his caring attitude,his smartness and emotional intelligence, his ideas. For some of these I think I gained her respect back but she is always expecting more and her heart is broken. She talked about those to me. So yeah as in the rules, you try to match up but dont make it look odd. And of course one more thing same job. I have to say W quit from that job. But didn't cut contact with OM. She really wanted to be away. Hey same office. work environment brings respect.
Me: 43, W: 43 M: 16, T: 18 D - 7, D - 7 ILUB: 26 August 2014 Still living together
Thank you, Sandi. I will read over this several times. I want to note that at one point, you made it sound like I was very dependent on her. I don't know whether you meant to, but she was actually the very dependent, needy one, always pulling on me for stuff, which is how I was able to be the neglectful one. However, I was dependent in a different sense. I had so many eggs in her basket, by having no friends. So, that made me very vulnerable to having a lot of loss when she left. Whereas, she has like 10 good friends or more. I was an introverted hobbyist. She also very likely set herself up to have a replacement before she dumped me, so she's probably not very lonely, unless she p!ssed off a lot of her acquaintances by perhaps cheating on me and then dumping me for Mr. Perfect. I don't know. None of them will hardly talk to me, and now I can barely get my wife to say anything to me either. Is there any sort of time frame to this? My wife keeps gradually doing things toward breakup. Her latest thing has been to talk to me and visit me much less. I don't know whether her lawyer has advised her to do that. How long does it tend to take a heart to soften, if it's going to soften?
M: 33, W: 30 @BD M 7, T 10 BD: Early Dec W left: Late Dec W got stuff: Late Jan W sent S papers: Mid Feb OM cnfrmd: Late Feb
Pain can yield tremendous growth OR everlasting sadness and bitterness.
