I'm back from holidays, which kids & I really enjoyed, though I was quite tired. I really wish doctors would finally find what is wrong with me so I can start a proper treatment. Eye got also worse with new antibiotics & different drops. New treatment doesn't seem to work...
Interactions with h were fine until tonight when I failed miserably! We had a long conversation on the phone & I just couldn't help it & told him, again, what I thought about the situation in which we are. He wasn't reasonable & there are things Im just not willing to accept anymore. I know I should be smarter than that & not to talk about these things. But it's difficult not to, now that we see each other so often. He repeated several times that he doesn't want to be with someone like me. At some point he said he thinks he should file for divorce as it's the only way to get out of the situation... But then he continues talking for several hours. Why does he do that? Just to make me understand that I'm the one who is responsible for the marriage being destroyed?
I don't think I want to continue being nice & understanding. The more I give the more he requests. I'm really tired & in my current health situation, I don't have much energy to deal with him. Maybe it's time to limit contact again. I kept replying to his messages etc. because I didn't want the situation to get worse again. But it seems that no matter what I do, if I disagree with just one thing, he only sees that. He has this very negative perception of me & no matter what I do he won't change it.
If divorce was the answer to the problem, I would consider it. But something tells me it would not change much.
Hiya Bee, It's good to hear the update from you. I read somewhere that the more you give to a MLCer the more he/she will take. The author actually likened the MLCer to Hitler. The more ground that was offered up, the more he took.
You are going to continue to pretzel yourself just to keep the waters calm and yet it isn't going to be enough or the "right thing" for him...
To be honest, I don't even think it's about the requests of the MLCer because you could do everything they request and then some.... And they will learn its not what they wanted or needed and then ask for something different. I actually think it's them trying to exert their control over the LbS more than anything.
I hope you feel better soon and get some relief/answers to your health condition.
Me- 30's H- 40's T-10 M-5 I moved out b/c he wanted space- June 15 D filed by H: September 16
Bee I'm sorry you are still not getting the right treatment. I hope they can work out what's wrong with your health and get you some help.
I cannot advise anyone on how to deal with MLC discussions, I think they are a lost cause and in my experience you always end up hurt (more than before talking). I now avoid ALL R talks (or D talks) simply because I've learnt my lesson: talking with the current version of my H hurts. It hurts a lot. I cannot get through to him, and anything I try to say will either be seen as "lecturing him" or pursuing, or my personal favourite "using the kids against him".
Get well soon sweetie xxx
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
You need to be taking care of Bee! I would go a bit dim on your h and let him stew a while. Your health is far more important than listening to his "thinking" of filing for divorce. I would simply say to him "I'm sorry you feel that way" and either hang up the phone of walk away.
The more you allow him to take from you emotionally, the more he'll do it. He may very well be hoping that you'll have enough of his nonsense and file.
Bee, it's time to go dimmer on him for a while. You need to focus on you and your health and that's what is important at this time.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Could your physical tiredness be psychological?Your are in a stressful situation and stress could cause physical symptoms including tiredness. I too don't have the energy I should have. I checked it out a few times but now I assume it is stress induced.
Best wishes
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Job, I like that you say "dimmer", it's a very good advice, thank you. Just what I needed! This was a bit of a dilemma - going dark again (especially that it worked well on him before - and was good for me too) or continue as it was in the past few weeks. But you're right, why going to extremes (even though there are moments when I want to completely cut him off but I know I would regret it).
I must say that everything that is said on this board works. Especially those threads for newbies - actually, not just for newbies - it's really helpful to re-read, I always find something I missed before, or maybe just getting it now when experiencing different stage of MLC than at the time I read it for the first time... I see it in practice that it works (yes, I still wish I found this board 3-4 years ago when it all started...).
The problem is, sometimes I just don't feel like applying it, sometimes it feels like he does not deserve it, that I'm just hurting myself more. I'm thinking why should I be nice, a friend, listening, validating, being there when he needs me, wasting my time on him etc. when he is having an affair, not being nice to me, not fair, re-writting history, not thinking about feelings of the kids etc. But there are visible differences in our interactions based on what I do/don't do, what I say/don't say or how I say it. So, yes, it's working. All I need is PATIENCE. I do know that and smart people on this board keep reminding me of it. And I'm really digging deep (with occasional breaks when the feeling that he does not deserve it and I'm just too tired prevails). Not fully there yet, but hopefully soon :-). And I am rewarded for my efforts. I see it more and more how he sometimes does/says some things which are meant to make me feel better. He did not do it before.
Esame, I fully agree with you. Not sure why I always get myself into those conversations. But something happened with the latest one a few days ago and I have a feeling that things are changing for both of us. The night after the conversation, I came to the conclusion that I don't want to have any discussions anymore and that while I cared before that he did not misunderstand what I said, so I explained and re-explained, I just don't care anymore what he thinks and whether he understood what I said as I meant it or not. To the point that when h sent me a text in the morning I did not even feel like reading it (turned out to be a nice message). And things are also different for him. Before, after a conversation like this he would withdraw for days. Now, several texts daily. If I don't reply, he sends "testing" e-mails, usually something that I like or would laugh at etc. Btw, after he left he never sent me such e-mails, for several months.
Feyth, there must be something about the control thing you mention. I have a feeling that a lot of what he says he does not really mean. That it's just testing and because he's so confused he's trying to see where I am and when he sees there is a danger that I may have enough he changes his behavior a bit. Also funny thing, tomorrow I have some friends coming over. He is taking kids out for dinner (just a coincidence that he offered that day, he did not know about my plans). When he asked if I'm ok with it, I told him it was ok as I'm having friends over. He asked what time they are coming. When he was leaving he said he will come to get kids at [the time my friends are coming]. Why? To see who is coming? To show to my friends that he is still around? Or...?
Roist, I am willing to explore whatever as long as they find the cure. But I just had some more tests and more doctors consulting and they all confirmed that it is reactivated mononucleosis that causes the tiredness. That's not very good news because there is no cure. The only thing they say is to rest. I soooo need to start exercising again. Maybe I will start something light like very slow swimming. On Monday I will have some additional tests for the eye and really hope will get some answers (and help) on that too.
Not being able to keep busy I think I have too much time to think. Which is not very good. I find myself in a strange situation when I don't know why or what makes me believe deep down so strongly that we will be back together with my h while at the same time I often think I do not want it anymore. That there was just simply too much damage done and that I will never be able to trust him again and that I would be better off without him. It's really strange to have these so contradictory feelings. I want to fight the feeling that we'll be back together also because I'm afraid that it may make it worse for me to face it once it's really over between us. I just don't know how to get that feeling go away.
And one last thing for which I may need advice. It seems h decided he does want to see a therapist again. He asked me if I could help him by suggesting a few names that he could contact. I could do that, of course, but I'm worried that first, he's not yet completely ready to open up the way he needs to and also that if he will have similar experience to the first one he consulted that it can actually do more damage. Are they some stages of MLC when they should avoid going to therapy? Maybe rather read some self help books before they are ready? I think that if he went to see someone as blunt as the psychiatrist I saw in June, it would be really damaging for him.
I also hesitate to "advise" him on that because if it fails (e.g. therapist not good, he does not commit fully to therapy so it does not bring results he's expecting from it etc.) it may be yet another thing on his list of what I failed to deliver. Though I'm not sure I care much about that anymore. All I want is that he heals, if for nothing else than for the sake of his relationship with the kids. He's getting much better with them but there is still a lot of room for improvement.
And now it's time to start taking care of Bee :-). Right after I push "submit".
Suggesting a therapist... I always looked at it like this: if it helps, great. If not, no loss either. He's already in a bad place. But at the heart of it, he's asking for help from somebody he thinks he can trust (deep deep down).
On your end, you have to decide if you want to be part of that or not. If you don't, he'll think you don't want to help or care. If you do and it goes wrong he'll blame you. If it does help, he'll give you credit at some point down the line. He may also find that it helps and then try to get back in a R with you and if that doesn't work for him (or he's not 'done' with MLC) then he'll thank you and blame you.
No rules on that one. Just your decision if you want to chime in or not. Try not to overthink it. It's a wash no matter how you look at it.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
You're right AJ, overanalysing is my big problem. And indeed, no matter what the outcome, it will be up to his (momentary) mood how he takes it. And I may hear several different versions, even during one conversation. So, I should not think about it much.
But you made me realise one important thing (thank you!): "he's asking for help from somebody he thinks he can trust".
I must admit, after all those "I don't trust you anymore" etc. it did not occur to me what his asking ME really means...
I let go. And planning to stick to it for some time.
It's been busy few weeks. I got back to work full time this week. My energy levels almost back to normal (almost). Even started some light regular exercise. Really necessary as I just started baking for Xmas... I love this time of the year. My teenage boys still like to bake Xmas cookies with me. And the smell of the house the whole month... Just love it!
Lot of things happened since my last post. Including my visit to h's bachelor's pad. Did not really feel like going there but it was necessary. Long story...
But I decided to let go. As I posted before, he asked for help to find a therapist. I talked to him about it and finished the discussion by sending him an e-mail which I had in my drafts for some time. I suggested in it some self help books before he contacts any of the therapists I suggested. I thought about it a lot and I'm still afraid that if he goes to therapy now it may not bring the results he is expecting. But now it's up to him.
I did my job. He is starting to wake up a little so I hope he will do the necessary. I cannot have any more of those conversations with him. I am losing more and more respect for him with every single one. If ever I want to be back with him one day (which for the moment I'm not so sure about anymore) I cannot completely lose respect for him.
He did not like our last conversation and wanted to run away from it (the excuse for him to stop the conversation was me smirking). I did not let him. I really cannot continue like this. After such discussions he usually stopped contacting me for a few days. Lately he keeps in contact even if I react to maybe 1 of 5 of his attempts. He is now on a business trip to Asia for a few days and keeps telling me he misses kids. I wish he felt the same when he's just a few kilometers away and can come to visit them... Anyway, I no longer hurt for them not seeing their father often. They seem to be fine with the situation, that's the most important.
Before all this happened I agreed I will not go for Xmas to my family, which we do every year (I will go after Xmas). He did not ask but many times hinted so I told him not to worry that I cannot really leave him alone for Xmas so will stay home with the kids and spend it with him. He seemed happy and said he will help me drive to our second home from where it's not far to my parents. And immediately after our discussion he bought a plane ticket for him to come back so I can spend the rest of the holidays alone with the kids. I know he does not deserve it but I just cannot leave him alone for Xmas. I know he will not go to his parents so I could not do it to him.
A few days ago he learnt that he needs a surgery. I am not happy about this. The last time he had a "routine" surgery his heart stopped and he was on a life support for a week. That's when the MLC started to show. Now it's supposed to be another "routine" operation. Well, we'll see how it goes and what kind of psychological impact it will have on him this time... I told him to let me know if he wants/needs my help, or wants to come home for the recovery after the operation. But I will not insist on anything. It's up to him.
He is trying hard to make amends with the kids. He is making a lot of efforts in general. He is contacting me much more. But he runs and hides when there is a small problem or things don't go the way he wants them to go. And then he's fast to tell me again and again that he does not want me in his life and has no other choice than to file for divorce...
Strangely, it has zero impact on me. While before I would not sleep after such conversation now it leaves me cold.
The last time he had a "routine" surgery his heart stopped and he was on a life support for a week. That's when the MLC started to show.
Interesting......you do know that there's a strong association between depression and heart attacks, or being on bypass machines, probably the same for life support. This may well have been a physiological cause for his MLC. (I still believe my ex's MLC was aggravated by the several concussions that he had in his 40's. That knowledge didn't change our ultimate outcome, but in my more benevolent moments, I try to remember that he might have brain damage contributing to his obnoxiousness. )
I can't maintain my Buddhist compassion for him all the time, but I do feel better when I can feel that.
