Here again after 9 years

[inpain]

[quote]

That said, you don't want to be the one that teaches him these lessons. Life will do it. It doesn't need help from you. So resist the desire to 'show him what Xmas would be like'...just do what's RIGHT, and if as a result he sees what Xmas would be like, fine.

Trouble is I don't know what's RIGHT heres and I only have 4 more days to decide. Actually 3, no way am I going food shopping on Christmas Eve!

[inpain]

Sigh. H has let the children down again. That's two nights in a row where he's said he will come round and then just texts me a couple of hours after the time he was due to arrive to say he's not coming now. S11 is very upset and annoyed about it.

I have my own theory as to why he hasn't shown tonight. Tomorrow is his birthday and today was his last shift at work before Christmas. I'm betting he's gone for a Christmas drink with colleagues. Not happy that he has done this to the children again!

[Zues126]

That does stink.

The good news is that this will pass. Maybe after the holidays you can find a more consistent and predictable schedule. Either he picks up the kids and takes them for a few hours a few times a week, or he comes and stays at your place while you go out and get a few things done. But the idea is to put together a schedule and stick to it, so it's not flying by the seat of your pants. With the idea being that you have plans on the nights he's with the kids, so he's not just an 'on call' parent. Eventually he'll get his own place and it will be even more structured.

I know that's not really the direction you want things to go, but it will take a lot of strain off the situation and take some fear from the kids that they are losing their dad.

Now, how you bring all of this up without sounding judgmental or controlling, that's another story. But this can wait.

PS- if you don't have a DB Coach this is the type of thing they are EXPERTS at.

[inpain]

Yes, you're right. I have already tried to talk to him about a more structured routine but he thinks it is perfectly acceptable to see them every day, even though this confuses them because they think it means he might come home.

Sadly, there is no way I can get any DB coaching, though I'd dearly love to. I'm not in US and there is no way I could afford them.

[Rouky]

Inpain, your situation is so much similar to mine. I have decided that my H wouldn't be there on Christmas Eve and Day as it would give my kids the wrong impression that their dad is coming home. Your son is disappointed with your H but he is old enough to realise what his dad is really like!

My H comes every other day to see kids, at first he was very helpful but now he is with OW he doesn't even read a bedtime story to his kids ( which he has been doing since we separated!). When he comes I take my dog for a walk and I have always the house to tidy up, so I hardly interact with him. Detaching is really hard and I'm nowhere near it, but it's getting easier everyday.

[inpain]

Sorry you are experiencing similar behaviour Rouky. It stinks big time doesn't it. Right now I am feeling so angry. It is H's birthday tomorrow and then we are all going to Lapland on Tuesday as it was booked before H dropped the bomb. I just feel so annoyed right now that I can't even think straight. How dare he do this to them?!

[Rouky]

I'm afraid he can do it as at the moment the most important person in his life is himself and his needs! We can't reason with our H as they have checked out on us. What you can only do is trying to enjoy your holiday with your kids. Try to create memories for them with you, not with H at the moment.

Enjoy your holidays :-)

[inpain]

Today my heart is beyond broken. I can't bear this new life I have.

H's reason for not coming to see the kids 2 nights in a row after promising? He just felt *^*&* and didn't feel like doing anything because he's having a *%%* time at the moment! I told him he could have at least text or called the kids to tell them. He said sorry, yes he should have.

Lapland was amazing and awful all at the same time. All the way there on the plane H and I were sitting over an aisle and I had the kids at my side. I didn't interact with H at all unless he did. He was constantly nudging me to talk to me about things and ask things. We had a great time playing in the snow then went to meet 'the real Santa'. S was very quiet, I wondered if he was just in awe but then he sat next to me and whispered, "I just want Dad to come back." From that moment, the rest of the day he was quiet and withdrawn and kept telling me he wants Dad to come home. The final place we visited he burst into tears about it so I left H to deal with it - thought it was about time he saw the real effects of what is happening. S was so upset and just sat in the snow sobbing in front of people. H accused me of putting him up to it!?!? I ended up destroying my hard work by saying that this is the reality of what he is doing by leaving, and that S is like this on a daily basis (all true) and I asked him what he said to S. H had told him he wasn't coming home and S had got upset when he asked why and H wouldn't answer. I asked him why myself (I know, bad move) and he said, "Because it's gone. Anything I ever felt for you is gone." I asked why we couldn't try to get the feelings back seeing as every time we've spent time together since he left we get on great and I still make him laugh. He said making him laugh isn't enough...sad when that is the first thing he loved about me when we first started dating, but now it's not enough. I said that some people don't even have that as a starting block and that it could be a foundation stone to a better M. He said just leave it for now. I said no more. S and I sat together on the way back to the airport and S cried all the way there...so did I. Luckilly it was dark! The next morning in the hotel H was attentive at breakfast, which I found weird. Again I made him laugh several times and at one point he went to give me a friendly pinch on the waist while laughing but stopped himself just as his hand got near, like he'd forgotten himself for a moment and realised just in time that he doesn't want contact with me. I let him do all the talk initiating on the way home too and again he was chatty and it was just like old times. When we got back to our house he helped us all in with the bags and just left saying he needed to go to bed (1pm). He said he'd see us all later but he didn't come back leaving the kids upset at bedtime again.

We went to see my parents in the afternoon to tell them about the trip. S suddenly comes out with the fact that H had spoken to him at the hotel during breakfast while I was helping D at the buffet table and told S that he wouldn't be coming for Christmas dinner, only to see them open presents. H didn't even think I might need to know this!? So now my parents are coming for Christmas dinner as originally planned before this whole sorry mess. I feel so sad about it. I'd hoped that the kids, H and I could have had Christmas dinner together - another hope that it would make him change his mind about D.

I don't know how to DB this situation any more. H says it is all gone. All of his feelings. Should I just leave the house every time he comes to see the kids? How can I ever show him I'm a W only a fool would leave if I do that? I am totally lost in a maze of confusion and don't know which way to turn.

[ciluzen]

In pain,

I am so sorry. I know how much this hurts and seems hopeless. Our situations are so similar and our Hs...so similar. I have to keep reading and re-reading DR (much better than DB for me), Sandi's rules, and the advice given on my thread by those who can see my situation from outside (Zues, JellyB, Ancaire, etc.).

My H, too, is ok with being friendly with me as long as I don't push R talk. I am realizing that one thing that is missing from his side is trust. No, I never lied or cheated, but in his stressed out state, he can not trust me to not make him feel...less of a man? You can see what I'm talking about on my thread. It might help.

Follow the LRT, let the kids work through their pain with their loving Mom to hug them and let them know Dad is having a hard time. I stress that because I know how tempting it is to want to show him what he's putting them through. I don't want to offend, but trust me as a fellow Mom; he already knows. If you try to show him what he already feels bad about, it will push him away more and hurt the kiddos in the process. Model compassion for his pain and show love and understanding to your children; lots of cuddles and hugs. You will need those hugs from them.

I'm realizing LRT is not about ignoring him as a punishment for leaving or just making them miss you; its about letting them have their space to work through the pain that caused them to leave. Let those times he initiates contact be the times you show him your changes. Will you be a better listener? A more confident woman? A more compassionate wife? Less of a mother to him and more of an empathetic non-judgemental friend? You will need to go over the clues and do the homework for your situation. It is hard. But I keep reading the phrases "be patient", "don't lose hope" and "don't pursue, it will push them away". And detach, detach, detach, and GAL.

You don't get to be the family you once were. It is sad, especially right now. But you can't make him, he doesn't want that. My own H is not coming to the house for Christmas because of ME. He is spending times with our adult kids separately. That hurts, but at least he will meet up with them. And at least your husband will be there to open packages with your children. This is about the dynamic between you two. Do your homework.

I'm here if you need someone to chat with or vent to. So so sorry that this is happening. It [censored]!

[Zues126]

I don't know how to DB this situation any more. H says it is all gone. All of his feelings. Should I just leave the house every time he comes to see the kids? How can I ever show him I'm a W only a fool would leave if I do that? I am totally lost in a maze of confusion and don't know which way to turn.

I think you're misunderstanding what DBing is about. You seem to think it's about fighting to get H to return to M. I think it would be a better idea to think of DBing as you fighting to accept H leaving and finalizing a divorce.

There are a couple of problems with the idea of fighting for your marriage. One is it sets you and H up to be adversaries as he wants one thing and you want the opposite. Another is that a M takes two people, so it sets you up with the mission of trying to find different ways to control what he does and lure him back to the M.

People that think this way pretty much do everything wrong. They argue and debate with WAS and say bad things about them to their friends because they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing. They remain incredibly attached to WAS's every action and ask themselves on a moment by moment basis what he chances are of saving the M, if that number wiggles upwards a 1/10th of a percent then they get happy, if it wiggles down a hair then they get depressed and panicked and angry. Finally their thoughts are overwhelmingly about controlling WAS, "how can I get him to understand, how can I show him, how can I make him", etc.

This is dead where you're at, and this is exactly why you are unhappy. How can you show him you're a spouse only a fool would leave? You can't. He can choose to see it or not. And frankly as long as you're trying to show him you're not there yet.

A spouse only a fool would leave would detach from his rollercoaster, drop the expectations, take responsibility for their own happiness, and focus on making personal changes for themselves, NOT as a manipulation tool to control the WAS.

You say you can't bear this new life. I understand the pain. The mantra I used every day, multiple times a day, was this: If I tell God I can't be happy with the life he's given me without the M I want, if I look up to the sky and say "God, you've given me healthy children, a lot of close family and friends that care for me, a good job and the ability to provide, many talents and gifts I enjoy using, and more, but it is absolutely unsatisfactory unless I can have my M I want right now", if I am really THAT unappreciative and if my happiness is truly that conditional on the outside world...well, in that case having this woman come back into my life wouldn't make any difference anyway.

You really need to change your goals here. Forget about saving the M. Forget about H. Make your goal about finding some joy in your life without your H. WITHOUT doing anything a married woman shouldn't do (i.e. no other men). Sounds impossible, but the fact is that this will force you to do TRUE 180s, addressing the hole in your heart that you always expected H to fill (which is the start of co-dependence and controlling behavior which you are demonstrating). If you can meet your own needs you will not need to control others to get them to do it for you, then you can grow towards becoming a spouse only a fool would leave. Maybe he sees that change, but he never will if you don't make that change.

I could rant another 18 1/2 pages here pretty easy about how to drop the rope, how to find happiness, etc, but this is a pretty good start. Focus on this mindshift first. As for 'what do I do when H is over' I think the answer is in the 37 rules. Again. It hasn't changed. Basically STFU, avoid R talks, keep interactions light and breezy, be the first one to end those interactions, don't pursue, etc. Have you been reading those daily?

I feel your pain, but instead of hoping your H hits bottom and changes his behavior and comes back to your R (which won't solve the problem), I am actually hoping he doesn't hit rock bottom so you DO, and you make the changes you need to in order to let go and find some peace in your life.