Re: LBH w/ a WW trying to save my M (3)

[gs9]

and I feel the only things I've asked of her is to end her A's and to speak to me with the respect you would show any random person.
Someone please let me know if I'm way off

[vise82]

Those sound like good boundaries, how are you going to enforce then if she doesn't do what you ask?

[annab74]

I have been giving 100% for a long time. I believe I still am and will continue to. I don't believe she deserves the things or privileges of a W bc she is choosing to continue her A's. I don't believe I'm concerned with what's fair or her even reciprocating my efforts because I know she has a lot of healing to do before she can work on our M. I am willing to do all the work holding our M together but not while she continues her relationships with these OM. I did not file the D and do not want the D bc I'm willing to do all the work until she's able to help.

You're absolutely right. If she's actively engaging in an A, that's totally different then if she were just struggling to deal with your infidelity. I would agree the A could likely be a coping mechanism. But knowing and understanding that does nothing to make it any easier for you to deal with, so you definitely do need to set healthy boundaries in the interest of your own self care.

I think she is reaching out to me the only way she can. And I am willing to give her everything I have but I'm really struggling with her ongoing A's. She is still regularly talking to the OM she slept with 5 months ago. She is not talking to her 2nd PA bc he told her he wouldn't talk to her until the D. And I know she is at least regularly talking to a 3rd man. What am I to do? I loved her openly and unconditionally even after I found out about the first PA for about 6 weeks. Then I started 180's. I hold the A's against her not her hurt and inability to work on our M. I know she will need to heal before she can work on the M

What a painful situation! It doesn't sound like she is really giving you much opportunity to fix the M right now. She might need to just flail around in her storm for a while as she rebuilds herself and works to accept the infidelity as being part of your shared life story. It's so hard when you are desperate to do *anything* to make it work, but until they are receptive to those gestures, nothing really seems to make any difference.

I DO understand wanting to hold the A's against her. I can tell you from my own perspective, however, that I found it impossible to feel guilty over anything I said/did to my H after his A, because he had wounded me so deeply, I felt like he had lost the right for me to consider his feelings. If I hurt him back, I reasoned that I was only making the score even. These were very unhealthy attitudes, and they did as much (or more) long term damage to our M than his actual A did, but that was how I felt at the time. So yes, she is a grown up and she knows what she is doing is wrong, and is responsible for making those decisions. But also bear in mind, she is not making these choices with a normal, healthy mindset. She is wounded and trying to self medicate to dull the overwhelming pain. Again, there is never, ever, ever an excuse for stepping outside the M. But I definitely advocate compassion (on both sides!) and trying to step out of our own pain to see that of our partners (which I give you huge kudos for trying to do). All behavior is a form of communication. Instead of getting caught up in the words or actions, try to understand the message behind it.

I'm here! Fighting this storm. She's choosing D and A's. Even with her ongoing A's I'm not choosing D.

It sounds like maybe your W could use some IC to help with her personal issues if she was treating you poorly even before everything happened. You are a very good man to stand by her through so much and still want to be with her.

[Mona52]

Those sound like good boundaries, how are you going to enforce then if she doesn't do what you ask?

Exactly! It almost sounds like you feel you do not have the right to enforce anything because you made a mistake.

I hear you wanting her to forgive you, but you need to step up and do it first.

Forgive yourself.

Now, re-read the last sentence.

The punishment here is not fitting the crime. You know that and it is wonderful that you accept this out of love. But there is a point when it can be counter productive. I have no idea if it has reached that point, or if your submission to her demands is what she needs to feel loved.

But if you are ready to stand up and set boundaries (and you are, because you have just forgiven yourself and you now feel worthy of boundaries)you need to also set up how they will be enforced.

I am useless at enforcing boundaries, so I am no help, but i do know it needs to be done.

[CaliGuy]

and I feel the only things I've asked of her is to end her A's and to speak to me with the respect you would show any random person.
Someone please let me know if I'm way off

She is not going to end the A's because 'you asked her too'. .... You can tell her that you refuse to live in an open marriage, you can tell her that HER A is extremely disrespectful to you and your family (you will receive blow back here because of the drunken oops you committed.... So have a truth dart ready here) these are things you can tell her.... But you are wasting energy and appearing controlling by ordering her to stop the A's. Remember the A is not the problem here, just seems to be because you are focused on it thinking if she would simply stop that and return to the marriage we would be able to work this out .. In her eyes the M is over and she is chasing happiness and you are in the way.

For me, I came to this conclusion with my W and her A... If that's what makes her happy, fine... I loved her and really wanted her happy. If OM was the guy..( I didn't believe he was ... Nor was he the man I am) .... Fine. I decided to let OM supply ALL of her needs, she was cake eating using me for certain things and him for others, I no longer allowed myself to fill those needs, she was sick during the holidays and begged me to drop off meds for her .... Her old husband would have meds, tissues, soup, blankets... I arrived to pick up our S and she asked where her meds were... I informed her I was not her husband, she replaced me and she really should rely on him to do those things, reminding her this was what she wanted and I am repeating HER choice.

This is where you detach and let her do her thing, work on you and become a person only a fool would leave

[gs9]

Those sound like good boundaries, how are you going to enforce then if she doesn't do what you ask?

Whoa! I haven't ordered or demanded she stop her A's. I know this would not be productive. She is not someone to be pushed around or bullied. I have told her as long as she is involved with these other men and continues to choose them over me and our family then I do not want her. As far as the A's all I can do is love her from a distance and work to be the man only a fool would leave. Not supplying the needs a H would supply as long as she continues her activities outside of our M.
As far as her disrespect... I'm able to create and maintain this boundary by first stating it and then when she crosses the line I tell her "I will not tolerate name calling. I'm leaving the conversation" I begin to walk away. She did this on Sunday night and when I started to walk away she called me back, apologized and asked if we could continue our conversation. I do not let her get away with one slip. My consistency is causing a change in her. It may be too little too late but at least I feel good about this boundary.
I do not expect her to end the A's and come back to the M. What I would like to see is her end the A's, respect the M and get the IC she needs to heal. Then work on the M. She is broken and abusive. I will not go back to an abusive M.

I've a real sense of peace because I really want to be M to who she wants to be, who I know she can be and who she has been 90% of the time. The problem is the other 10% is so abusive I can't stay in it. She will either get help and we'll have a great and healthy M or she won't, she'll complete the D and I won't have to put up with the abuse on regularly basis.

Either way I'm in a better place.

[gs9]

Exactly! It almost sounds like you feel you do not have the right to enforce anything because you made a mistake.

It took me a little while to forgive myself and I still have to work at it daily as doubt creeps in. However, I have been able to enforce the way she speaks to me, I've reclaimed the MBR, I do not let her manipulate me (last weekend she was away and left me list of chores to complete. There were a couple things I intended to do anyway so I did those things but the majority of the list I ignored), She tried to reclaim the MBR on nights I'm out late and I stated again that I would sleeping in the MBR and suggested a couple other choices for her. Not tolerating disrespect from her has made her angry a couple times but nearly as angry as I thought it would. I believe standing firm she is beginning to respect me like never before. She has now apologized 3 times in the last couple weeks for different things. As odd as it sounds this is a huge step for her. She even admitted to being wrong. I know.....shocking!!!!

[gs9]

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