Yes I truly fogave hwr for all that is in the past when my first daughter was born. We tried counseling. It lasted 3 sessions. Im not sure if it was the counselor or her but I really gave it a go. I thought it was helping, but she didn't seem to want to listen to anything he had to say. My faults always outweighed hers no matter what it seemed.
I have matured and done AM since those dark times. I am a better person but it feels she hasnt noticed or cared. She refuses to consider counseling right now.
I will say i am beginning to see the fluxuations of a WW in her more prevalently. She acts nice to me ine minute and horrid the next. She jokes about having sex with me(I say no thanks each time) but all the while she texts and talks to him.
I am wondering if I am taking the right approach. I am not showering her with gifts or anything, but since i checked out for so long I am trying tobe engage her in friendly conversations now and be nice with her even when she gets angry. I try to help her around the house and such.
Is this the wrong approach. I dobt want to go totally dark because I feel like it would be seen as more of the same. Also I havebt cut her phone off. Should I be doing things like that or trying to be sweet? And under sny circumstances is it of to talk about our past?
I am wondering if I am taking the right approach. I am not showering her with gifts or anything, but since i checked out for so long I am trying tobe engage her in friendly conversations now and be nice with her even when she gets angry. I try to help her around the house and such.
Explain how you try to engage her in friendly conversations and are nice even when she gets angry.
Quote:
I dont want her to see me cutting the phone off as an act of jealousy and I want to work to resolve her issues about me and our past.
How do you want her to see it?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
My faults always outweighed hers no matter what it seemed.
I felt my W did the exact same thing and its one of the things I'm working on right now actually. Throughout our M she seen things in a different way and things I did that were minor were so much worse than the moderate-major things she did. I've realized even the way she tells others her point of view is flawed and gives a completely different view of what really happened, but I'm sure on some level this happens to everyone. In my case it bothered me to the point where it was my button pushing and I would react instantly, much like you have said you do. You cant tell or show her faults to her because you already know that doesn't work. You have to own your own faults when criticized and avoid attacking her without reacting at all, this is the only way she will see her own faults.
I have matured and done AM since those dark times. I am a better person but it feels she hasnt noticed or cared. She refuses to consider counseling right now.
She is focused on what she thinks will make her happy, which is working(or so she thinks right now) so theres no reason she would care about your changes. The changes are you for anyway.
I will say i am beginning to see the fluxuations of a WW in her more prevalently. She acts nice to me ine minute and horrid the next. She jokes about having sex with me(I say no thanks each time) but all the while she texts and talks to him.
She will act that way as long as shes in the fog and thinking about him.
I am wondering if I am taking the right approach. I am not showering her with gifts or anything, but since i checked out for so long I am trying tobe engage her in friendly conversations now and be nice with her even when she gets angry. I try to help her around the house and such.
Is this the wrong approach. I dobt want to go totally dark because I feel like it would be seen as more of the same. Also I havebt cut her phone off. Should I be doing things like that or trying to be sweet? And under sny circumstances is it of to talk about our past?
Going totally dark might be more of the same, but the dynamics are different also. Pulling back would be the more appropriate term and action. You want have positive interactions but move forward with your life also. One point is not being the door mat and I'm sure that's leading down sandi's line of questions which I would pay attention too.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
I try to talk about the kids or TV shows.(we both love Gane of Thrones) It sounds bad but we gang up on people together. (Not bullying but we talk gossip to each other and judge peoole together) That was one thing we got from MC was the therapist said we team up against otgers well. Lol
I try to keep it off of us and how we are unless she goes there.
And Fogg I was referring to before my DB changes. She always seemed to have the same opinions and old views of me. She has noticed the DB changes.
I am not looking into it too much because she atill hasnt hit bottom and begged to work on things. But we seemed to have a pleasant family dinner out tonight, and she actually stayed off her phone the whole time. I am thinking it was because on the ride to the restaurant she wanted to talk about our potential D a little (Kids visitation and such mostly)(She still hasnt committed to saying we are gonna D for sure yet, but somehow it moved to me, and I told her "Sure I want things to work between us because you are my wife and the mother of my children, but I know either way I will be happy."
I realized last night that I am moving from depression to anger over all of this. Once we got home from dinner she acted nice to me. We put the kids to bed. Then like a light switch about 10-20 minutes after the kids went to bed she didnt want anything to do with me. I couldn't figure it out until about half an hour later when OM called.
Maybe this is normal. I am reading as much on this board as I can in my free time to try to learn more to help myself. I know I still need to detach better, and I am working on it. I am wondering though. Is behavior like this normal for a WW? To act nice to me, almost to the point that we seem ok, one minute, and then to almost act like she hates me the next.
I am reading Sandis "Newcomer LBH with a WAW" to try to help inform myself. I saw a couple of posts about a "script". Is there anywhere where some more info on that would be on that? I know the script of how the OM came into the picture. He was nice and funny to her in the game. Then from there it moved to flirting and finally they came to where she is now, an EA.
As always thanks for all your insight and care guys. I know you want to help me come out of this stronger and a better person no matter the outcome.
Both her behavior & your moving through depression and anger are very, very normal. It is (part of) why detachment and GAL are so important: so you don't get reactive to these powerful stimuli. You will likely swing around emotionally a lot, from sadness, anger, hope, hurt, etc. Even when you've been relatively calm for a while, these can still jump up and bite us in the a$$.
Here's what I discovered about my first swing to the angry phase. I had apologized over and over. I had taken the steps & done the work to right the problematic behavior. I had taken steps to make amends. And, yet nothing worked. If anything, she responded with more distance and boundaries. I started to get angry that she wasn't forgiving me and moving back toward me. I felt like she was being irrational for hurting me more when I did what she said she wanted. Sound familiar?
Here are some other things. My anger was a combination of frustration and a much deeper hurt and fear. Being a guy, socialized the way we are on emotions, it was much easier to let the anger free, and much harder to recognize and embrace the other two deeper, more painful emotions. After all, that would be to admit I couldn't just fix things. That would mean I wasn't in control. That would mean I was a failure. That is a hard place to go for most of us guys, at least in our culture.
So, I let myself be angry, but I also allowed myself to feel the hurt, sadness, and fear that were under the anger. I also learned to stop seeing things from just my perspective and wanting to control my W's feelings and behaviors and see things from her perspective. I put myself in her shoes. I imagined myself a very hurt person who was afraid the person who she had put so much hope and trust in would hurt me. That his actions showed that he didn't listen to me, but now that I'm out the door and he will lose me he will change to try to get me back to that painful arrangement. It is still all about him and his needs, not me and my needs. I don't want him to show me he can be a good H, I want him to give me the space I asked for. I want him to hear me, and even if it is very hard for him, to set aside his needs and help me meet my needs. Every action he takes is just trying to get past my boundaries, and that scares me. Why won't he just give me what I've asked for this once. Not what I asked for long ago, that is past. What I've asked for now.
It is hard, because we are focused on the past and fear of a future wo/ the woman we do love. We need to focus on the present and addressing the present needs and requests of the woman we love. There may come a time when your new behavior will count with her again, and you still need to do the work to change. It's just not sufficient by itself. You also need to really, really back off. To switch your focus to you. To figure out who you want to be & what your life can be wo/ her. Maybe then, after the dust has settled, she'll start to be attracted to the interesting man you've become, notice the changes, notice that you are sustaining them as part of your life rather than as a ploy to get her back.
In the meantime. Respect your anger. Let yourself feel it. Explore what is under it (anger is usually triggered by deeper emotions,like fear & hurt). And, try to limit the damage of letting it drive your words and actions.
Good luck. It is frustrating.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
That actually sounds very familiar. That is actually wonderfully put about not giving her what she wanted then, and thinking she wants the same thing now. As hard as it is I guess I need to give her what she wants now.
It is what you want too, if you hope to get another chance. It is love, but at the same time it gives your M its best shot.
You'll have time to demonstrate the new, more considerate you. In the meantime, focus on how you are going to be the happier, more interesting you regardless of what she does. Again, good for you, good for her, good for your R.
It's tough. I tended to recognize intellectually what to do & not to do. Didn't always keep me from following that insight in the day-to-day. I know you've been told this repeatedly, but it will get easier. I'd add, then it will get harder, then easier, and so on. Overall, the harder wont be as hard and wont last as long, and the easier will be more easy (?) and last longer.
Expect some mistakes as you re-orient, but also that they are only a real problem if you keep making them. Again, easy to say, hard to remember when you've just f*cked up.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
I am logical too. So I get what needs to be done MOST of the time. However, actually following through with it is another story all together.
I bought "The 5 languages of love" today and am reading through it. It is helping me get that my wife's language wasn't verbal like me. So all the years of me telling her how pretty she was or how much i liked her cooking etc. Wasn't the love she needed.
I am finding it harder to detach while my wife and I share the house. She talks and acts like we are still together half the time and it kills me because I know that isnt the case. It make me hope more and i know that will only make it harder as she delves deeper into her WWness(?). I am trying to do it. I know I need to for my own sanity, but actually detaching is hard when she rubs on me or talks about our future with the kids.
I wish i could get into her head and actually trust i know what she is feeling. I know she is probably lying even to herself at this point.
