as_it_is - my adventure continues (part 3)

[asitis]

Part 2 is hitting 100, so time to start part 3.

Previous threads:

as_it_is - my adventure continutes (part 1)

as_it_is - my adventure continues (part 2)

Just a quick re-cap. W says she has just realized she is unhappy & that the stories she has been telling herself about our M are not true back in Mar. 2014. This was triggered by a really difficult discussion w/ a student who came to her because she had just recovered memories of childhood sexual abuse & needed help. I think it was the idea that we can be in denial of our pain, but whatever, that was the triggering event.

She winds down affection & tries to get me to see why she is unhappy. I finally get it & stop defending myself and start the campaign to make amends & do all the things she wanted & correct all the mistakes. I intensify my IC and she starts IC. Stop having any sex at all some time in April, and that was partly my instigation because I could tell that she really didn't want to anymore but was doing it out of some kind of sense of obligation. It just wasn't what I wanted. The ILYBNILWY talk happens around here. Like a brother & we're family, but... etc.

As I pursued through being super H & hyper attentive lover & wooer, she just continued to distance. Every time I really made progress toward what she said was a problem in the M, I got rewarded by new boundaries, more distance, and no appreciation. Finally, I push MC around Aug. & she agrees. First few sessions are he recounting problems & hurts, my admitting & talking about all that I'm doing. MC goes on month-long vacation. By the time he comes back, we've moved toward discussion of a physical separation. A session or 2 latter, she asks for it, I don't fight it but ask OK how do we do this? From there until S starts in Feb. all sessions are on logistics of S, rules, worrying about how to make this as good as we can w/ the kids.

Of course, she thinks she tried, even though there was no trying at all going on in MC, but many of you know how that goes.

So we separate Feb. 2015 in a somewhat unusual fashion. We have a house, and rent an apartment. The kids (S-6 & S-3) stay in the house, and W & I rotate on about a 50-50 basis. This works well (we've always been good at getting along & not fighting, etc., and we both have a strong commitment to the kids' well-being w/ the obvious twist that W is seeking D). I continue w/ pursuit, although dialed way back. A lot of it were things I wasn't fully aware of as pursuit yet, as most of the obvious stuff I stopped.

Around mid-March she lets me know that she is finally feeling her anger. She has suppressed her anger all her life, along w/ not recognizing and asking for her wants and needs to be met. She recognizes this (it seems lately that she recognized but maybe has forgotten some of it as her problem that contributed to M problems), btw. So her IC is encouraging her to learn to feel and experience her anger. Like a child w/ a new toy who doesn't know yet how to take care of it, she starts stoking the anger. And for anyone who has read up on repressed emotions, this was the anger of a whole lifetime erupting up into her consciousness, but instead of it going out to the appropriate targets, it all gets pointed at the nearby target with whom you have anger issues.

Wow, what a fun time that was. It was seething just below the surface veneer all the time, and would irrupt in wonderful spew fests and arguments. In mid April she asks for a D. I don't get mad or break down as she is expecting. She explains (as she has done, not understanding how these things actually work) that the emotional bonds just aren't there any more and she wants out. Later, when asked in a moment of DB weakness, she says she can't trust me.

Started DBing around then when a mentor in my counseling grad program mentions the first chapter of DB (which I owned but never really got far in) - thought I was already backing off pursuit, and didn't want to play games w/ her. So I now devoured it, ordered DR, and came here. Started DBing in earnest about then & honing the DB skills. Saw a lot of the little ways I was still pursuing that I didn't see as pursuit. Started to detach more, and focus even more on GAL.

I'm also a practicing Buddhist, and it is a big part of my life. This along w/ DBing & using my early therapy training to dig more into relationships & divorce have been the biggest reasons that I'm in as good a shape as I am now. The rage seemed to peak in early July with her telling me that she felt like I was financially exploiting her w/ lots of spew & re-reading history. I started to defend briefly, especially when she denied she had made a clear commitment to help while I continued to work part time & get my masters degree. Then I backed off & listened. The next day, I told her I had thought about what she said & I could see why she felt that way (I did given the way she was perceiving reality), and so how painful that was for her, and I also realized that she was seeming to express a feeling that she was not appreciated for what she did or respected, and while I did, I was sorry that I didn't show it in a way she could feel.

Shortly thereafter I went on a 2-week long retreat at the Zen monastery I go to regularly. Since coming back, things have improved a lot. Too early to tell, and I'll discuss in the next post a huge pot hole coming in the road that I have to traverse.

[asitis]

So, I have beaten the bushes to find a mediator in our area w/ some mental health (esp. couples) training. There are none. We have a lot of lawyers, and one financial planning firm. W wants to move ahead to mediate separating the finances. I think she thinks she can lower her monthly costs.

I was up late last night getting more and more agitated about this, as what she would really be doing is trying to shift costs onto me, even though I'm already bearing much of the cost for the extra rent of the separation. I make less than half what she does, as I can only work part time while I get my masters. We originally agreed that she would need to help support this endeavor, given that I had spent 4 years as an unpaid stay-at-home dad. She now sees this all as me exploiting her.

The thing is, if she shifts expenses to me through a divorce, it will only help her monthly bottom line a bit, and it will kill me. I will likely have to take a second job and halt my masters. I will likely have to move into an even smaller apartment w/ no bedroom to take the kids. This is the reality I am all to aware of in divorce, as I've run through the numbers. In exchange for that, I'll be walking away w/ about half of her retirement savings, much of the equity in the house, or she takes on more of my share of the mutual debts. It is a financial loser for both of us.

So, after tossing and turning, I got up and meditated. Helped a lot, including the idea that I need to show her the break down to our monthly living expenses now & after a D to show her that the only advantage she will really get will come from selling our house and moving into an apartment. In other words from downsizing her & our son's living conditions. The rest is eaten up in duplicated expenses, higher insurance costs (since we work for the same employer, we get a lower premium for family coverage because I'm contributing, & there are multi-car discounts on the car side of things).

So, I haven't got everything down, but after most of the differences my monthly costs go up around $400 per month. Her's goes down $429, but $360 of that is net savings from selling the house that we would gain if we were married and sold the house. So, taking that aside, her savings is a whopping $69 per month.

I also did a reconciliation scenario, which has my costs going down $760 & hers going down about $150. If it weren't for the apartment rental which I took on rather than some other joint expenses, I could take those expenses back on & still have money to help pay down some debts.

Add to this the lawyer, court, mediation fees, real estate commissions and fees. It really is going to cost both of us a lot, and I think her fantasy that this will liberate her will be shattered. For a $400 a month improvement in her monthly expenses, she gets to live in an apartment w/ no gardens and a lot less room & no equity building over time, she is going to cough over I'd guess about $70-80K in assets.

Now, those assets are mostly retirement, so I can't use those to fund my living expenses. I get to go from having enough for food & a few hundred to pay miscellaneous expenses & maybe a small treat once in a while, to being insolvent on a cash flow basis, and having to make some really bad choices on my graduate education vs. second job, moving into a cramped baseroom apartment, etc.

Now, I have to figure how to most effectively work this through with her.

I've been thinking of saying, here are the two medation alternatives. One (the L) is to lead to D and will make our financial situation much worse, one (the financial planner) may lead to helping our mutual financial difficulties, but that may be offset by fees we charge. Why don't you call and see what they charge for all this and how they work?

Oh, and there is a third path. We sit tight & continue to nibble away at mutual problems to see if we can find creative ways to increase both our cash flow situation a bit to allow us to feel a bit less stressed while you have your time & space.

I'm going to need to mull over this & probably have another DB coach call.

[gonegrl]

Asitis, thank you for the recap, it helps! You are doing great. Your story reminds me a lot of mine, especially the repressed anger that is spewing out on to you. That is what I am dealing with right now, and its enough to make me question my sanity for wanting to stay Married.

You are so strong and every time you respond to my posts, your advice is so dead on and helpful.

So how long have you been doing DB in earnest? And when you say the "Bomb" was in April, you are referring to her saying she wants out? Or D?

[Bob723]

Asitis,

Thank you for your post in my thread. It sounds to me like you are doing really well.

Hang in there!

Bob

[asitis]

The BD was asking for a D. Really, there was the I'm not happy out of the blue, which was a bit over a year before that. She implied that she would work on the M after having some time S. Nope.

The financial conversations/mediation are going to be fraught w/ emotion, esp. because I'm 99% sure she has some fantasy that her higher earning power & that she takes on more than half the family expenses will lead to a kind of financial liberation by dumping me. That's part of the feeling exploited rant. Reality is not going to be kind to her, and that may make her feel trapped & do who knows what in despair. Can't be sure, but I see that as something I have to be on alert for. Also, even if she starts down this path, it is going to cost.

I wish she'd just let things be for a while longer while the emotional dust settles.

On the how long I've been earnestly DBing, probably a week after she asked for a D back in April. I was doing a lot more detaching and some GAL (not because I knew them as part of DBing) since before the start of the S, but after really learning about DBing, I realized that there was still more pursuit than I recognized and a lot else.

On one hand I've been doing fairly well, but I'm very stressed right now over the mediation request & the potential conflict it will cause that will make DBing difficult at times, and potentially stoke the flames of anger in her again. Who knows, maybe I'm projecting, but I'm definitely not looking forward to it.

[asitis]

OK, I need some advice thinking all this financial mediation situation through. See the post a few back for those details.

But I've thought of another conundrum. What I really want to be able to say is that going down this path toward separation of assets is the path to hasten D. That will be a costly path for all of us financially. It will not liberate you from me financially, as all it will do is make life much harder for me & cause you to downsize your life. It will impact the kids as well, as our financial situation and standard of living impacts them.

I know you still want a divorce, and that right now you think you are sure that this is what you will want. And, yet you also want time alone & you have that. There isn't a rush here. The financial liberation will not come through hurrying things. And, you don't know that the way you feel out me or us will remain the way you are certain it will right now. I know things we both believed/thought we were certain about changed dramatically, and sometimes quickly. So, the path to pushing the financial separation along will not give you much of any gain, and will cost us & the kids both. Let's tread carefully & continue on the path of letting things sit.

In the meantime, let's continue to look creatively together for ways we can make both our financial situation better, and address some of the financial problems we mutually contributed to.

-- End --

Of, course the discussion of D and whether she will want it in the end is a DB no-no, so I'll have to jettison that part I think. Still, it really does make things more realistic (I hate that we often have to avoid using reality in DB situations) and allow for a better decision if she sees that the way we feel right now is not necessarily the way we feel in 6 months or a year or even two years.

Do I just ask to sit down and show her why separating financially more than we are will not give her the benefit she thinks it will & will burden me way beyond the small benefit she receives? And, then offer to continue to sit down to look at creative solutions to see if we can produce at least as much benefit wo/ the expense of mediation & the burden separating will put on me at this time?

I need some other perspectives & wise eyes on this.

[Avanti]

There's a lot words here and you are expecting the person you used to know to respond in the way she used to. That's not going to happen.

You sound like you need some time, are you in a position to simply say, it requires more thought hence give you space to think and get your head fully around things?

[asitis]

A little time, but she brought it up & is expecting something soon.

And, I'm actually trying to think of a way to get her not to go off half-cocked like I'm expecting & give it some thought. I wish just telling her the reality and having her listen and work from there would be the how she was. I know I can't be the one to hit her with that reality. Really makes it much harder.

[Avanti]

Use the time you have, don't allow yourself to be rushed.

You are trying to predict and /or influence how she will think change your thinking to what you want.

Focus on your needs, her reaction is something you can't control so don't try or worry about it unduly. Don't provoke her, but don't concern yourself with any reality check she may experience, it's her problem, not yours.

[asitis]

That's true, but this reality check could cost a bunch of money & I will be in the room having to work through all this with her, as that's what medation is.

Maybe just go w/ I've beaten the bush & couldn't find a mediator like we wanted (w/ a mental health background). Here are two options. Both will likely be expensive, but I'll leave that for you to look into. I'm not all that enthusiastic about this right now, as I really don't seeing cutting your expenses, and it will likely lead to raising mine substantially more than the little it might save you, and it will cost. I can sit down w/ you and show you why I say this if you want, but I'll leave that to you.

If there is no rush on the D, I think it would be better to work creatively together to try to create some savings & deal with our collective problem, but you look into it and think about it.

Here are the two names & their numbers...

Just let her do some of the work since I wasn't able to use my counseling network to shake the kind of mediator we wanted out of the trees. Now, ball is in her court again. She can push it at her pace.

I won't bring up that I'm not paying half the mediation fees when I don't want this. Just wait for her to bring it up.

How does that sound?

Thanks for your help Beagley. I wonder if any of our survivors have been in a situation like this or know of another who did and could shed some light?