Step 1: Detach. GAL. STFU.

[Bob723]

And now she is suddenly saying that in a healthy relationship there should be more sex. Then she goes on to tell me that she had sex every single day with a handful of her ex boyfriends before her and I were married.

I flipped out. I said "are you kidding me". "For 14 years you withheld it from me, told me you didn't even like it and now you are telling me this".

I honestly think it was a lie that she told in order to push my buttons because as soon as I flipped out she said she was done.

But that is a specific example of what I would consider emotionally abusive behavior on her part.

BEC, you're right. I'm sure it was a lie to "push your buttons." I can see how it would be so hurtful. Emotionally abusive behavior? Sadly, yes it is.

Hang tough...

Bob

[asitis]

Maybe try a mediator at least to clarify arrangements during separation?

Also, have you consulted a lawyer? Given the current custody and living arrangement, and your raising her emotional abuse of S, I'd really want to have good advice and a plan in place if she does file.

Not meaning to judge you, and you didn't clarify the details of the emotional abuse of S, but getting him and your other children into a healthier situation would trump any marriage issues at this point. Unfortunately, w/ you out of the house and not at least near 50% caregiver, your leverage may be a problem. Hence, the lawyer consultation suggestions. Mediation of the arrangements to move the separation to a position where you do have more leverage if it comes to D would then be an angle I'd take.

Also, have you thought about under what conditions you would be willing to continue the M? Having looked back over your posts, it seems almost entirely focused on saving the M, period. You recognize that a lot of work would be necessary, but given the emotional abuse issue you've raised here, some more soul-searching as to what you will require for the M to go forward would be healthy. I think it would help you clarify your question of throwing in the towel.

[BEClem]

Man I am on a vent fest roll tonight.

Thanks for listening everyone. I know DBing is about us and what we can control but I have so much bottled up from so many years.

I need to get this out and need to share this with all of you because maybe this isn't worth it.

[Bob723]

Thank you Bob. You have always been such a good friend and so supportive of me. I wish you nothing but love and happiness my friend.

You're welcome, BEC. I feel the same way about you, so...back at 'ya!!

Bob

[BEClem]

Maybe try a mediator at least to clarify arrangements during separation?

Also, have you consulted a lawyer? Given the current custody and living arrangement, and your raising her emotional abuse of S, I'd really want to have good advice and a plan in place if she does file.

Not meaning to judge you, and you didn't clarify the details of the emotional abuse of S, but getting him and your other children into a healthier situation would trump any marriage issues at this point. Unfortunately, w/ you out of the house and not at least near 50% caregiver, your leverage may be a problem. Hence, the lawyer consultation suggestions. Mediation of the arrangements to move the separation to a position where you do have more leverage if it comes to D would then be an angle I'd take.

Also, have you thought about under what conditions you would be willing to continue the M? Having looked back over your posts, it seems almost entirely focused on saving the M, period. You recognize that a lot of work would be necessary, but given the emotional abuse issue you've raised here, some more soul-searching as to what you will require for the M to go forward would be healthy. I think it would help you clarify your question of throwing in the towel.

To answer some of your questions:

I don't think that my W necessarily emotional abuses my son and daughter. She is a very good mother in many many ways and those children are her life. But the aspect of her abusive personality that I see effecting my son is her extremely controlling nature.

She sets hardlined rules about things and how things need to be done. I see it started to manifest itself as almost a complex in my son where he becomes nervous about doing things out of fear of getting in trouble with mom.

For example. She limits any sort of game or tv time to the extreme in my opinion. So when the kids come to visit me at my parents, he gets nervous about mom finding out he played on grandma's I pad or we watched a movie.

Things like that. So it isn't as extreme as to what I have been exposed to but it is there in a different way.

And me not being home for going on 8 months is not easy on them. They don't understand why I don't just come home.

I had a discussion with my son once about all of it. He thought that I just abandoned them and didn't want to be there with them. Which is the furthest thing from the truth. I had asked him if mom and he had ever spoken about what is going on. He said no.

There is something inherently wrong and dysfunctional about that.

[BEClem]

I can remember back in November having to tell the kids that I was going to go stay with my parents for a while.

With my daughter being only 2 I simply told her that I was going to go have a sleepover.

With my son, he asked how long I'd be gone for. I told him 3 months. His response was "but Dad that is like a whole summer vacation".

Those first three months he and I had a countdown. Every day I saw him he would ask "how many more days left till you come home?"

Heartbreaking.

[asitis]

Man I am on a vent fest roll tonight.

Thanks for listening everyone. I know DBing is about us and what we can control but I have so much bottled up from so many years.

I need to get this out and need to share this with all of you because maybe this isn't worth it.

Vent away. Bottling it up doesn't work. This is your time to let it loose. If you don't want advice yet, just let us know that you just need to get it off your chest. My experience has been that advice is often unnecessary when the venting is over, as the venter has already figured it all out (I see the irony that I'm giving advice here, but you know...). Go for it. Get it out. We'll be there.

It sounds like you've gone through a lot of sh*t, and you have been hurt a lot. Exposing that to others takes a lot of guts and strength.

[BEClem]

You know I left so much of this complete backstory out until now.

I'm wondering if this information I am sharing changes the perspectives for some of you who have been following my sitch from the beginning.

I just never disclosed the ENTIRE marriage.

[BEClem]

Man I am on a vent fest roll tonight.

Thanks for listening everyone. I know DBing is about us and what we can control but I have so much bottled up from so many years.

I need to get this out and need to share this with all of you because maybe this isn't worth it.

Vent away. Bottling it up doesn't work. This is your time to let it loose. If you don't want advice yet, just let us know that you just need to get it off your chest. My experience has been that advice is often unnecessary when the venting is over, as the venter has already figured it all out (I see the irony that I'm giving advice here, but you know...). Go for it. Get it out. We'll be there.

It sounds like you've gone through a lot of sh*t, and you have been hurt a lot. Exposing that to others takes a lot of guts and strength.

Ironically enough, from her perspective I "destroyed her". Which is her reference to my depressive period. But from a logical standpoint it's like "wait a minute. What about the first 8 or 9 years when I was not depressed and you treated me like garbage. Does that just not count? Is there a possibility that maybe your behavior, over time, effected me in a way that could have contributed greatly to me "changing"?

I mean, I know we talk alot here about not blameshifting. But sometimes things are what they are. It's not shifting blame but it is telling it like it is.

[asitis]

I can remember back in November having to tell the kids that I was going to go stay with my parents for a while.

With my daughter being only 2 I simply told her that I was going to go have a sleepover.

With my son, he asked how long I'd be gone for. I told him 3 months. His response was "but Dad that is like a whole summer vacation".

Those first three months he and I had a countdown. Every day I saw him he would ask "how many more days left till you come home?"

Heartbreaking.

Definitely heartbreaking. I'm glad you clarified the W's behavior toward the son, but I'd point that you also said that she knows he is your weak point to get at you. That set off alarms in my head.

I think talking w/ an IC or MC with family counseling training would be very helpful in discussing how to talk to your children about S, esp. when your 3 months response turned out not to be true.

I know in my case, I've made clear that mommy doesn't want to be around daddy right now, and we aren't sure if she will change her mind. We both love you and you are our priority and always will be. When we came home from our vacation and I said that even though it was normally going to be my days in the house & w/ them, it was important that they get back to the house and that I knew they wanted to be with their mom after 11 days apart. He asked why we couldn't all be together. I reiterated that mom didn't feel comfortable being around me. He said, "but that's not fair." God, kids sometimes hit the nail on the head. I had to go into a long talk with him about how life isn't always fair, and that we have to do what's best with the situation as it is, not how we want it to be. And, that his and his brother's happiness was the most important thing to me and his mom, and that I'd be OK knowing that I was doing my best for him and his brother.

Didn't say that I thought his mother didn't understand that what was best for the kids was to grow up and do the hard work to rebuild the M and keep the family together. It is definitely heartbreaking, but standing up in the middle of all of that and doing what is best is what being a grown up is all about. I think that is something so many of us on this forum have to be proud of even while we all wish things were better.