Mindsink - Part 2

[25yearsmlc]

Wow...are you for real?
Mindsink, you are indeed causing all of this, blindly oblivious to our warnings.
You ignore Bond's advice at your peril.

The good news is you could POSSIBLY change course.

Just b/c your wife did not leave you years ago, there is no excuse for how you treat her now. You are still Not being a good or truly faithful h.

Last WEEK You wanted to date OWs...b/c after all, you said "there is no guarantee" (that your wife would return to you, so why bother trying? B/c being kind to her is so...HARD???)

Do you remember last week? We do. You keep covering your bases w/OWs, so there will always be a Plan B for You, (b/c God knows you must have a back up woman at all times... to make you feel....what??)

I remain stunned by your apparent need for female attention at all times --and as soon as it wanes or ebbs,then you cheat, or you date -or you post online, and or you want to do all the above.

(Granted, you cheated on your wife even while you were getting attention so there's that. Oh wait, you said that's b/c you had an addiction, so never mind.

Mindsink, Have you ever been alone? Was being alone a nightmare for you?

It sure looks as if you just have to have a woman on your arm...which does not appear to be very secure. And it's not the way to get AND KEEP a woman.

Here again is a letter a WAW wrote to a man on these boards.

That man was an LBS. He could not understand why his wife would not return to him, since he had made a number of changes within (which we all applauded) AND he could not grasp why his w would still give the OM a second look...

So here is that letter for you to read in the waning hope that you will SEE YOURSELF in this letter -- and turn this thing around while there MAY still be a chance. But I worry that you may have pushed your wife too far this time...

AND remember that you have been in this situation a mere 6 WEEKS and "committed to DBing" ("committed" to DBing WHILE having yet another inappropriate R with OW...)

SMH

SIDENOTE: I'm sincerely asking, Do you know what is not appropriate for you with OW? B/C I honestly don't think you do. How did your parents interact and how was their m? Think about that.


FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than.

I even got chills when she talked about OWs, because I've been there and done that. Of course, my H cheated, then left, adding an extra crunchy layer of goodness to my sitch.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.

Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes.

So, I can see where your W is coming from. When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope.

You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to "WIN".

Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to "win".

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell.
_________________________


Mindsink,

I do not believe you are a "mean" man. I think you may have pushed your wife too far this time. WE know and you probably admit, you have been a lousy h. I Can't speak to your fathering skills, but I pray none of your kids know about the prostitutes you hired and "interacted" with, for years....

But I DO think you have hurt your wife exponentially more than you can or will admit.

Til you can do at least that, how are you going to get anywhere with any of this?

[MrBond]

BTW, you never mentioned that you were talking to an OW. If you were and had been open about it here on the boards, we would have warned against it which would have prevented this latest blowup.

Also, after your A's, did you give your W FULL transparency in that she was allowed to check your email and phone any time she wished? If not, then you don't understand what her insecurities were. The fact that you are "shocked" by this shows again that you are unwilling to address her pain of the past. That is the key to your situation. If you continue to argue here about what the point is of doing that (because it's hurtful TO YOU - selfish reasons), then we can't help you any further.

[mindsin]

25 - Everything in your post is spot on. The part about being alone particularly struck a chord. I literally went from living with my parents to living with my wife. I've never been independent. I've never been on my own.

There is really nothing else I can do at this point except bow my head in shame.

You have exposed my inner self in a way that I, nor anyone else in my life has ever been able to. I thank you for that.

[mindsin]

Also, after your A's, did you give your W FULL transparency in that she was allowed to check your email and phone any time she wished? If not, then you don't understand what her insecurities were.

I never explicitly gave her full transparency, nor did she ever ask for it.

[Wonka]

Also, after your A's, did you give your W FULL transparency in that she was allowed to check your email and phone any time she wished? If not, then you don't understand what her insecurities were.

I never explicitly gave her full transparency, nor did she ever ask for it.

Why not? You sound like a little boy who points the finger at someone else crying.. "he hit me first!"

Idiot.

[25yearsmlc]

I cannot stand this tit for tat.

But you are confusing people with your spin (and maybe a desperate need to be declared the "victor" here, but I am not in a contest with you)

No you are misinterpreting. Just because the section follows another, doesn't mean that you follow those steps in that particular order. 25 has been here awhile and you seem to enjoy thinking YOUR interpretation is correct.

From page 215 in DR...

"In Chapter 6, I wrote about the last-resort technique. Re-read that section (page 124), because everything I wrote there applies here as well."

I'd like to know your interpretation of that ^.

Mindsink, I actually went back and read it again and I stand by my take on it.

Look at the quote right there^^. "...everything I wrote there applies here as well..." and "there" means the earlier pages, and in those pages she says you must

exhaust the other approaches FIRST --BEFORE you go to LRT...even if there is an A, and even if the spouse does not want to end it.

That is why the LRT stands for "LAST resort" not "first resort", or 3rd or "approach when you feel frustrated..."resort

She also says NOT to mention the OM at all. Stop thinking/talking or referring to him. Period. (Including in the pages you cite above, she says Not to do that).

So there should be no confusion remaining in you about mentioning him or discussing him with anyone again....don't.

Just those last two sentences show how little you've learned and how much your ego is very much there. "I" just want do do what works" ... how selfish is that? You are still trying to figure out how to manipulate your W into loving you. You still haven't addressed HER hurt despite everything you say.

I'm selfish because I want to follow a system that will improve my mental state and self-esteem, and also potentially get my wife back and keep my family intact?! You lost me there.

5 days? That's laughable. No habit that you've accumulated over a lifetime of doing, changes in 5 days.

I said "I'm working on that" and that "I made vast improvements". I didn't say "I changed". I still have a long way to go.

Mind,

3 questions.

1. Does Either family know about your past with the prostitutes?

2. How have you changed, and can you please list specific behaviors or actions that you have changed?

NOT things that you "won't do again" but that you have already stopped doing AND OR changed.

And

3. how have your attitudes or opinions changed? Have they?

[MrBond]

"I never explicitly gave her full transparency, nor did she ever ask for it."

THIS is a BIG reason why you're still in this mess. Didn't the two of you go to C after your A's were discovered? The NUMBER ONE thing that she needed from you was FULL transparency. That would have helped to heal things faster and re-established trust. You should have allowed her full access to all of your emails and cell phone when ever and where ever she asked for it.

If you didn't do this, you didn't understand what she needed to heal.

[MrBond]

Are you willing to let her do that now?

[mindsin]

Why not? You sound like a little boy who points the finger at someone else crying.. "he hit me first!"

Idiot.

Because I didn't understand trust, let alone how to rebuild it.

[mindsin]

Are you willing to let her do that now?

Yes. I don't think I have anything left to hide at this point, unless I start doing something new to hide behind her back.

Well, that's not entirely true. She doesn't know about DB, or my postings here. I don't know if it's something I should share with her.