melissa - getting stronger!!

[3boymom]

Stay in your sandbox and do YOUR thing.

I love this! I repeat it often to myself and laugh at the image on myself playing in a tiny sandbox.

[Underdog]

Ahhh, nice topic du jour, ladies.

Before I go on, 25, I just gotta reply to the car thing. I've owned 2 convertibles and 2 sports cars (one each in Colorado), and it's a great state for both! My XH has had a motorcycle in both CA and CO and loves riding in both states equally. While my convertible was ideal for someone who could keep it as a 2nd car and garage kept, it was a lovely car for my D20 to use all through high school. I sold it last year because she's in NY and I don't want to insure 3 cars. I also have an adorable RX-8. It's awesome and I love driving it, but to tell you the truth, I think it's a sh!tty car to drive in the winter. (It has bun warmers and good heat - it's just the rear wheel drive that makes it less than ideal under certain road conditions.) So I personally don't see a downside in the convertible here. And my very first car was a red convertible Triumph. It will always hold a special place in my heart. I was just fortunate that my dad was a cop.

Now here's the secret that Melissa and I want to keep to ourselves. The media portrays us as sitting in the snow belt with horrific winters. Sure, every once in awhile we do get 'em. So does Tahoe. But most of the time, the weather here is bomdiggity. I say that with vehemence. I grew up in DC, lived in the Bay Area for 3 years and have lived here for more than 20 years. Because we are at a mile high, even if it's 15 outside, the snow starts evaporating immediately. We're second only to San Diego in the number of sunny days per year. Shhhhh. Don't tell anyone.

So, no matter what your H does, Melissa, like Boyz said, you choose how you want to act. Period. In fact, I'm holding myself to the mantra outside of this forum that if I don't like the person I become as a result of choices that others make that affect me, it's still MY choice not to become that person. It's my face I have to stare at every morning in the mirror. In the end, I hold myself accountable to my goal of being able to look back and not regret being different.

It's not to say that I don't entertain evil thoughts or really sarcastic responses. I do. I just don't act on them. With practice, it's much easier. You have to train yourself to put up a stop sign and say to yourself, "Is this getting me closer to my goal?" If the answer is no, you have to train yourself to zip the lip and walk away.

Now, getting back to your reply to your H. I think 25's idea is the balance between the Wonka-esque response and yours. It engages dialogue without invitation for him to criticize. Maybe not validating, but at this point in the game, I guess I wouldn't be as concerned about that. Especially since you're trying to tread water right now. It's difficult to juggle when you're literally trying to swim.

On a happy note, I'm looking at my Starbucks mug and thinking of you - in a positive way. I hope that counts for something? As soon as my Keurig supply arrives via FedEx, I'm going to brew another cup and I'll think of you again. It's all good!

Back to our current programming, already in progress...

Betsey

[Brian in Hville]

25, I wish I could come to one of your DB dinners . . . assuming there are drinks, too, of course.

I think that even without the bond of getting D, there is still a commonality among most women. It was interesting for me to see that this woman I had lunch with was really the same deep down. I think we all want the same things, have the same fears (at their core), and just want to feel connected. I think I judge people way too much and it's on my list of things to change about myself.

Thought of the day . . . in reading other people's threads over the past few days (and especially the posts by 25), it occurred to me that I am not doing much DBing, at least not as it relates to my H. Or maybe I just need to read the book again.

I am still working on me and GALing, but I feel like I have moved into more of a defensive mode with him right now. I am thinking about how I communicate with him, and how to improve that, but it all seems defensive.

I'm not sure where I am with all this. I would say I am done with this M and with my H, the way he is. But I guess I am still "standing" in the sense that (I think) I would be willing to make things work with him if the conditions were right. However, I have very little hope of that ever happening (I would give it .00001%, honestly).

Just not sure of my direction right now . . . or maybe I just need to be focusing on moving forward and getting through this legal process in one piece.

What is bugging me is that I feel like I have moved back toward where I was with H during the last months of our M . . . looking for things wrong with H, the things he says and does, etc. I think something in me tells me that since he is being selfish and doesn't give a crap about or appreciate me, it feels like if I treat him kindly in the face of the way he treats me, I am letting him off the hook or giving him something he doesn't deserve.

Mellisa,

I think you can act however you want now that you realize your M is over and that you really don't want it back. The way we treat our Spouse going through this is to not make things worse on the chance that things will work out. With you knowing that won't happen, act how YOU want. If you think he is a selfish SOB, then don't pretend he isn't. If he changes who he is, your opinion can change at that time. DBing worked with you. You came through this a better person and your happy! That's the beauty of this system!

Brian

[trc2009]

Melissa, I feel the same thing about moving into a "defensive" position. Maybe that's part of the natural process of DB'ing or not.

We are working on GAL as you mentioned and making that a priority. I honestly think my wife would have filed for divorce (or at least indicated that she was) if I hadn't drawn a line in the sand and made myself GAL. And it's hard to do that AND not be a little defensive. Especially when you are feeling better about yourself. Obviously we don't want that feeling to change.

I'm not sure if that's how you feel but I've found myself in a similar position. Maybe that's part of doing the 180. You learn those rules front & back and you put them into motion. It is implied in those rules that you are no longer on the offensive. So naturally, you are on the defensive. Or in other words, if you are no longer the "pursuer," you are no longer on the "offensive."

[Wonka]

M,

Where's the sign-up sheet that I can sign that says it's my turn to ride in your rad new wheels??!!

So my H texted me again tonight (see, I spoke too soon about him being quiet) to ask me (in perfectly friendly fashion at least) for my January Amex statement.

Suggested response:

H, okay...that can be arranged. I'll print it out and send it along to you. Where would you like for me to send it to you? Have a nice day-M

[melissag]

Hi guys!!

Just dropped off my deposit for my new car! (Where is that silly cheerleader emotion when I need it?)

And, lest you all think that I am being impractical with my Rocky Mountain/convertible combo, my new car is a hard top AND, drum roll please . . . all wheel drive.

How could I not buy one??

So, before all your sage advice, I actually went ahead and emailed H the pdf of my January Amex statement. I just said, "here you go," and attached it. (We each have a card on the account, so it is actually our joint statement, but when he calls they will only tell him the total balance and what his account activity was, not mine - because I am the account owner.)

I had asked him the other day why he wanted my Amex statement, and he said because he needed to understand the $XX,000 bill I paid in February. (Except he didn't say it quite that nicely.) Since he saw the amount of the bill, he has made several nasty comments about it, insinuating that I am lying or hiding things from him. I wonder where his "I have to assume the worst if you don't tell me things" imagination took him

Anyway, I decided it was silly not to send it to him, and I would just deal with any rotten tomatoes. (As I was saving it as a pdf, I had to laugh when I saw he just spent another $1000+ on furniture on Monday, and the airfare to WY with the kids last weekend was $700 each.)

A few hours later, I got this response:

Thanks for sending this. It was useful to see that my bill was included in that payment. I thought I had paid it separately. I hope you can understand that an unexplained $XX,000 AMEX bill raised significant concerns on my end.

We do need to be careful with money. This is shaping up to be a pretty good quarter/first six months for [his law firm], so I'm hopeful that the April check will cover some issues.

I would also like to propose sitting down, or exchanging proposals for a resolution with you. If you want to do that with lawyers present or not, I don't really care (although I don't think the expenses is necessary). I don't think there are a lot of issues to fight about. Let me know if you're willing to do this.

Huh. No rotten tomatoes. Although I did literally laugh out loud when I read the part about him thinking he had paid his bill separately. He has never in his life paid an Amex bill. (Or any other bill for that matter.)

So, can you guys check me on this? If someone jumps to the worst possible conclusion, and then yells at you for it (when they are wrong), and then, after receiving a perfectly reasonable explanation, demands proof, do you think that, upon learning he was wrong, that person should perhaps apologize???

This was an issue for years. My H doesn't really apologize. Do you see his nonpology here? Surely, M, you can understand why I was such an a-hole, and clearly I was justified.

I'm being serious when I ask, because this M and my H have caused me to question myself sometimes . . . is it unreasonable to think that he could have said, "Oh, I see now. I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions, I just got freaked out and I overreacted"? Or something like that? Because that's what I would really like someone to do. I feel like it's what I would do.

Re: talking about proposals, I am thinking I will reiterate my willingness to listen to whatever he has to say. Quite frankly, I think his proposal will be nowhere close to what I am entitled to - just based on his last proposal. If I do listen to what he has to say, I intend to say and agree to nothing. Or, I could just say, again, that I don't have the information I need to agree to anything.

I am not sure why he is SO adamant about talking just the two of us . . . he is trying to hurry things along, or he thinks that he can show up and give me his best charming smile, and I will just swoon and agree to whatever he wants?

More later - I have to pick up my D9!

Hope everyone has a great evening!

[JayMan]

I have to tell you - the amounts of money you talk about are staggering. If I paid an $xx,000 bill, it would be like 5 years of spending...

That being said - what do you expect from him? I'm pretty sure your H is not really holding the bar for an exemplary husband, so what expectations of behavior do you have for him?

[Underdog]

Good for you! Your new wheels sound fun AND practical!

The nonpology. Have you read anything about narcissistic behavior? True narcissists deflect shame on to others. I'm not saying to diagnose him or put him in a box, but consider behaviors that might have served a purpose in the past that he is still carrying forward. His current R with you might have triggered some fight or flight instincts...

In the words of our friend, SD, maybe say to yourself, "Isn't that interesting?"

What I find interesting is that your H seems to have some incredibly appalling double standards. He's worried about money, yet he pays $3K/mo for the "dad pad" (for you folks who do not live in Denver, it's a pretty expensive rent) and bought a new car without blinking yet still wants to remind you of your fiscal obligations all the while he moved out? I'd say rotten tomatoes should be flung at him. If he's never paid any of the marital bills thus far, I'm going to assume he knew you were paying them and not some bill pay fairy? (Please give me the name and address of the bill pay fairy, if that's the case.)

Call me jaded (and you'd have every right to say that to me right now), but I am not buying this:

I would also like to propose sitting down, or exchanging proposals for a resolution with you. If you want to do that with lawyers present or not, I don't really care (although I don't think the expenses is necessary). I don't think there are a lot of issues to fight about. Let me know if you're willing to do this.

Au contraire. I think he DOES care that there are lawyers involved. I also think he knows full well that there are a slew of good reasons why you wouldn't do this. And I personally don't think you should sit down with him without representation. Instead, I'd have to say,

"Things are very busy for me personally for the next month with break, our trip to VA and the kids' activities. Why don't you submit your proposal to me via e-mail so I can read when I get some time and consider your thoughts?"

If he views you the way his interactions come across here, he expects you to fight about it. And my best guess is that it's a setup. I don't like it. He seems to know every button to push with you, and if you don't trust yourself enough to make those buttons useless, I'd steer away from interactions that leave you feeling like crap or even worse: guilty.

Coffee is good. My Keurig K-cups arrived so here I am thinking of you.

Betsey

[melissag]

Jon, thanks for your post. I haven't seen any recent posts from you, but the change in your signature didn't get past me. Will be looking for your update soon, hope you are doing OK.

I hope that I didn't offend anyone, and apologize if I did, for talking about large amounts of money. My H makes a good living, but I didn't mean to be insensitive.

What do I expect from my H . . . not much these days. I guess right now all I expect form him is to treat me with common courtesy and respect. Since I filed, he has had a bit of trouble with that. I kind of get it - it is much easier to be kind and gracious when you feel you have the upper hand.

I don't think my H is a bad guy. I think, as someone mentioned a page or two back, that this is just an emotional time - with filing, telling kids, financial matters, etc. So I am hoping to just get through it without too much damage, and see what happens with H after some time has passed and things have settled down some. Right now I don't trust him in the least, and the hurt is still pretty raw for me, but someday perhaps we can be friends again.

[Wonka]

M,

So, before all your sage advice, I actually went ahead and emailed H the pdf of my January Amex statement. I just said, "here you go," and attached it.

Attagirl!!! I am dancing a happy jig here. I'm one mighty proud gal here...you do see how KISS makes it so much easier when dealing with H?

I am with Bets on her assessment of H wanting to meet with you on his "proposal" and trying to lasso you into meeting with him without your L. As we've said several times, H is really scared of Ls and is not wanting to cough up some dough to you. Stand firm on this with H. Your L has your best interests..not the other way around.

Don't ever apologize for your wealth here. It is hard earned and is to be celebrated.