Had a short talk with W this morning and then she called this afternoon and asked if we could change some dates in march. I wasn’t in front of my computer so I told her that we would have to talk later but she started anyway.
She wants the Ds on a weekend were they are supposed to be with me. Last 4-5 years we have gone to a friend of W and watched a music competition show for children on TV. This has been some kind of tradition and W wants to continue this. This year she wants to visit the show with the Ds and see the tests live on Friday and then watch the real show on TV at her friend on Saturday. I have already been planning on doing something on this day but only in my head.
She stated: “I would like to have them on this date and then you can have them on your birthday instead.”
I told her that I had already planned on doing something with them and that at the moment I didn’t feel like doing this change of dates, but also that I would give it a thought. She started out by telling me that this show/tradition has meant nothing to me and that she didn’t understand, that she was really sad on behalf of the girls, and some few other things I can’t remember.
I told her something like “W, I will give it a thought and get back to you”
She tried to pressure me with deadline on buying the tickets, but I stood my ground and we hung up. I was calm, pleasant and with a soft-voice all the way through. She seemed a little annoyed or angry.
She texted me shortly after:
“Hey you. Well, that was a surprice. Have always seen [TV-show] as something I have had with the girls…! I can understand that you would also like to have this experience with them but then I will suggest that we share it. We could go and see the test together on Friday all of us and then you can have them on Saturday or I can have them Friday and then you can have them Saturday. No matter what I do hope that you will grant me this. It really means a lot to me.”
I haven’t answered the text but will have to call or stall her this evening.
I do not know how I feel about going there together. It’s a 2½ hour drive each way – that’s a long time and I do not know where we will be in March. Could be better – could be worse!
I do not feel like giving up on time Ds and S10 have together so if we go it will only be the five of us. I believe W is organizing this with her friend, but I don’t know for sure.
I do not believe that all “traditions” can be kept alive. S10 and Ds see each other Friday to Monday every second week. I am guarding this time. I cancel sports, birthdays and so, for the four of us to spend time together.
I think her trading my birthday for this is over the top, but I will prefer the children having their weekend over them attending my birthday. I will properly address this so she knows my stand on this.
Thoughts?
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
Why not? I'd seize the opportunity to drive in the car with W and the kids. She offered a nice solution for everyone. Go on the trip and showcase the new, improved F with humor, silly songs, jokes, etc. This is about the kids, right? You are creating new, fun memories for everyone.
F, you're going to have many, many such negotiations in the future. You give, you take. Such is life among s'd or d'd coparents. I think your W is being a bit unreasonable in the way she's presenting it, she's presenting it more as a demand than a request. That said, I think if you refuse then she's going to "punish" you by not letting you see them on your bday. It sounds like you didn't have any firm plans that weekend anyway, so I would suggest letting her have them but clearly stating "OK, you can have them on X dates if I get them on Y dates, we'll swap those two weekends". I wouldn't go with her unless it's something that you really want to do, but it doesn't sound like it is.
Its time for you to adjust to the new normal, your right some traditions are never going to be the same. Do you see you and your wife attending this music thing together for another 10 years just to keep the tradition alive? hmmm me neither.
March is a long time away, its not like you have non refundable plane tickets holding you back. Trade the days and move on. Start making some new traditions with your kids.
F, I am going to be the outsider here and suggest that you do plan to go together. If, come March, you really feel like you don't want to go (because you will feel horribly uncomfortable, not because you think you need to not go in order to further some sort of strategy), you can always politely back out and allow your W to take the kids herself.
Others may disagree, but I think that if you can set aside your differences (as your W seems willing to do) to create wonderful memories for your kids, that can only be a good thing. Maybe you and W will have a great time, and the 2.5 hour drive will be a chance to relax and reconnect and even create pleasant memories for you and W. Maybe it won't. But if you go into it with an open mind, you never know, it might be a great family outing.
That said, I think that they way your W presented it - insinuating that you would not be allowed to have the kids on your birthday if you didn't give her what she wanted - was not cool, but let's just give her the benefit of the doubt for the moment. After all, she did text you with another possible solution that sounds much more thoughtful and reasonable.
Just my $.02.
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
The response and support from this page astonishes me time after time – lots and lots of gratitude!
I have been over and over this in my mind – primarily to search for what I want and secondary what will bring me closer to my goal.
I need to point out one thing: Switching one weekend with W means that S10 and Ds won’t see each other for a month! Some TV-show just isn’t reason enough for me to make this happen.
Right now I feel like 1/ Telling W that we can go together but it can only be us and if our present R is worsened at that time I will pull the plug on the trip or go without her. I will also tell her that I am deeply serious about this and if we suddenly run into some friend of hers I will leave the place with the children and that the Rs state at that time is a totally subjective judgment made by me. Furthermore that none of these boundaries is meant to “punish” – they are meant to protect the children’s time together and their time with me.
AS is completely right:
Originally Posted By: AS
I wouldn't go with her unless it's something that you really want to do, but it doesn't sound like it is.
I do NOT feel like doing the trip, but I will have to face this if R is ever to happen. This is in March and if I can’t face W a year after BD then when? I can’t go here Wonka:
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Go on the trip and showcase the new, improved F with humor, silly songs, jokes, etc.
….but I can certainly try to take it some of the way
2/ I will have the children for the rest of the weekend and thereby break the “tradition” Fly has a good point:
Originally Posted By: Fly
Its time for you to adjust to the new normal, your right some traditions are never going to be the same. Do you see you and your wife attending this music thing together for another 10 years just to keep the tradition alive? hmmm me neither.
...problem is that I think (mindreading) that W see this differently. She want business as normal - just without me But then again: Now this is about me and my children.
3/
Originally Posted By: Melissa
That said, I think that they way your W presented it - insinuating that you would not be allowed to have the kids on your birthday if you didn't give her what she wanted - was not cool, but let's just give her the benefit of the doubt for the moment.
I will ASK her if she is serious about me not having the children for my birthday and if she is using this as a trade. If so I will also tell her that pulling the birthday as a trade doesn’t seem acceptable to me and that I would like for us to talk through how this shall/will work in the time to come.
I feel ready for the talk – many thanks to all of you!
I will post after the talk!
F
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
You can inform W that having your children with you on your birthday is non-negotiable and important to you to spend time with them on your special day.
I texted her that I couldn’t call earlier than 23.00 and got a nice text back about her being in the supermarket.
Called her 23.05 and asked if her shopping went well. We talked shortly about this and then after 45 seconds.
Below you will find the convo. It is hard to translate. I was calm and soft-voiced all the way through. W got angry twice and was annoyed most the time.
ME: [TV-show] We can go together… W (Breaking in): Great Me: …two demands. First one is that it is only us going. W: (quiet scornful laughter) Me: I am not interested in making this something big but I can hear that you’ve already stopped there….. W: Yes, because….demands, what (long breaks between words.) W: I can’t honor that demand because…. (long breaks again) ….I would really like for [BF and daughter] to come along. It would be a major experience for all of us. You don’t have to talk to her…break… Me: This has nothing to do with [BF] and me. This has something to with me having three children that see each other 4 days a month. If we chooses to switch…. W (Breaking in): See each other four days a month? Me: Yes, Saturday and Sunday every second week. Lets make it four and a half but this is not about this math – it’s about them seeing each other very little. The time the children has each other and the time I have them all together is very very sacred to me. It is not so sacred that we can’t shift but [TV-show] to me is not in a category that makes me feel like doing a shift. If this is a trip with others, and please do not take this as me holding anything against [BF and daughter] then the childrens focus on each other and me will not be the same and I won’t let that happen for [TV-show] And thats how I feel! W: hmprf…..[loooong break] W: I don’t even know what to say (quiet scornful laughter) W: That means that everything around goes and it can only be the four of you Me (Breaking in): No, that’s not what I said W (Breaking in): At some point that will be hard to uphold Me: I know and I am not saying this is for ever and ever and furthermore I stated that [TV-show] is not in a category that makes me want to change days. That was what I intended to say and I am sorry if it came out different. There will be things where change of days will be the only thing right to do, but I do not see [TV-show] in March as one of these. W: No, then this will be very difficult to discuss and this is exactly what is difficult with you. You want it you way and now you will get it because you oppose. That’s how it is and always has been and that’s so super-sad. I think. Ermm…yes…It’s a shame. I can’t see any reason that it would be a problem bringing [BF and daughter] along. You won’t lose focus. We will just show them that things can be done together and that we can still have fun without them having to choose. It will be a blast and it will be super-fun and they won’t sit on us anyway. They are supposed to have a great evening and a great experience and to know that we are all there. You won’t lose focus because of me or [BF] (Loooong break) Me: I hear what you are saying and I can also understand you POV but while I understand your POV I do not share it. W: No, I can hear that…. W: I think it is so sad. I am thinking that I can understand that you want experiences (with the Ds) and I can understand that you want many. I have said that we can change some days. I do not understand that it is so important to get them all. I am thinking let’s say that someday when D6 is older and she want to go hunting. I wouldn’t dream of saying no. I wouldn’t say no, I want to do that. You are the hunter (W also hunts) and that your passion so off course you should take her. You should have these great experiences with them but why do you want the experience of [TV-show]. You have never wanted this. That’s what I don’t understand. That’s what I think. WHAT is happening? What is happening….(short break) Me: W, what is…. W: No (as in do not interrupt) Me: Sorry W: I DO NOT understand it. Its like ALL that you couldn’t do before you can now and that is hard for me to understand. I have to admit that and I feel so sad…really really sad…and it annoys me that you come with demands and then I do not feel like going at all…I think it is ridiculous. It is major ridiculous…I’m annoyed….that my only fu..king comment: Annoyment!!! (Getting angry in tone. Until here the entire convo was slow, low voiced but tense.) I do [cursing] think that I have come so open-minded in to this. I open all opportunities for you. Every time you ask – I say off course. Take them if you want them. What the….then I ask for one thing and then I don’t care a dime if it is [TV-show] or whatever and how important YOU think it is - because I really would like this….I am asking if I can have an experience with them…(She was raising her voice) Me: W, you have to speak nice…. W: I AM!!! (Raised voice) How am I not speaking nice. I haven’t said anything ugly…. (loooong break) Me: That’s not how I hear it….but if you didn’t intend to then OK… W: I didn’t hear that Me: That’s not how I hear it….but if you didn’t intend to then OK… W: I do not understand… Me: To me it sounded like you were getting angry and using tone and words I don’t like. I think I am speaking quite calm. That’s why I broke in and when you stated that it wasn’t intended I said then it is OK…. W: hmprf Me: I am sorry this annoys you. I can easily understand you POV, but as I see it there is a big difference in the time we have…. W: But F – you can have time another day….. Me: W, that I can not W Breaking in: WE CAN JUST CHANGE THE DAYS Me (Still totally calm ): W, I am the father of THREE children…. W Breaking in annoyed: …I know that, F… Me: Listen….I have three children and these three children needs time together and time with me. We haven’t got much of this time. What you are asking of me is that because of a music-show I should give up a weekend. Then you change this to a Friday but bottom line I do not want to give up the time for this…and that goes for [TV-show]… W: Ok, but then I shouldn’t ask…or just not tell you what I want to do…and that’s not how I want to be…I want to go into this with an open hand…I do not want to be cunning. But this is the first time I have asked if I can have them on your time…ok, a weekend is to much…an evening…I will bring them to your place….I can bring S10…I just want to do this with [BF] because this is something we usually do together – this is our tradition. That’s why I get so disappointed that you are stealing my tradition…and it’s one you have never been interested in. Then I say you can come along. The you say: My demand is that [BF] do not come along.. Me breaking in: No W: YES, that’s the demand… Me: No the demand is that this is a trip for the five of us W breaking in: But then it doesn’t matter AT ALL…..but nobody can come that’s your demand… Me: Yes W: I think it is so sad that you are demanding…. (Looong break) W: It is so sad, but then there is not much left to say….now I will have to think a little about this…as you usually do. Me: I totally understand (W interrupted and spoke over me and said “I deeply respect” – making a laugh of me…Validating and me!) W: And that’s hell to me W: This a just so bad/sad – and I know what the end is. You will have it, forget I ever asked…and then it is so… Me: ok W: but let me think about it….and I will let you know… Me: Ok, that’s all right with me… W: Yes, thanks for calling Me: Don’t mention it W: Hmprf Me: I think at some point and after the feelings on this have settled.. W: Hmprff Me: …it would be a good idea that we sat down and talked this through in general. I am not in to taking something away from you – in any way – I am into giving something to my children and I am in to defending the things I find important to them and right now I see time as really really important. This break-up will cost traditions at both ends. That’s a totally natural bill that have to paid for something like this. To me [TV-show] is not super-super-important. You properly value this higher than me. I would value birthday higher… W: Then you make yourself the judge in their life – you can’t judge what is important to them…You can tell what you think is important but you can’t judge what I think is important and what the children think is important… Me: Properly right and neither can you…. W: But when you have starwars-evenings…I don’t ask..I just say of course…You do it all. I know I have them more than you but why should you valuate my wishes. If it is important or not. You are not the judge there,F. Then I should judge you as well and say no… That’s how I feel! Me: I am not going to argue against your feelings. I am sorry that I make you feel this way – it is not my intention…. W: I think it is…I can’t do otherwise… Me: Then I can’t do anymore….I have tried to explain that to me the most important part right now is that the kids and I have time together… W breaking in with some sound! Me: NO! Now you listen! I think it is really really important that the children attends your birthday, I think it is really important that we meet on the 23. So there is things I find more important than the children and me having time together. W: Yes but you could shift the Friday to the Monday and then…..you wouldn’t loose time…and if you came along then you would win time….I do not understand this! Me: You started out by asking me about a weekend, the next thing you ask is if we can do this together, now you are adding a Monday – the things are changing all the time. You have asked me and I have answered. (Me mumbling to myself and then firmly stating)…NO! I won’t argue against you feelings. I am sorry that I make you angry and sad – it is not intended. My intention is to watch over something precious… (Looong break) W: Yes, I will have to think this over… Me: I think you should… Me: We can easily talk further on this issue if you feel like it… W: Ok – we will talk (with pleasant and nice voice)
20 min.
Hard one for me. I should have ended it sooner and there are many places where I would have done, worded or stated different - but I feel I came out ok. If she calls again and asks about this last suggestion of hers – switch Friday to Monday I will do this and I will properly also go along together with S10. But before that I will state the second demand about us having a decent R at that time and furthermore I will tell her that we need to talk this over in general to avoid futher convo's like this.
Thoughts?
F
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
I might just have succeeded in pi..ing of both W and XW1 today!
Convo with W is above! It speaks for itself!
I just poured myself a big glass of red wine and while sitting here thinking I remember that I got a ltter from state today. I have (on purpose) been paying XW1 too much child support for a long time but this D costs so in the summer I called XW1 and told her I wanted it reduced. She agreed for a week and the she disagreed and told me to go through the channels at State/Gov. After waiting 6-7 months they reduced it and I received the letter today. They cut it in half! My initial proposal was around 75%. I will call XW1 tomorrow and have a talk…my goal is that I can settle both things quickly. XW1 is coming over for dinner on 22. and W on 23. for the whole afternoon. I feel like fixing things for both of them while writing this and it will be hard for me not to reach out and help them find the best solution.
I still feel quite well and on top of things. I have the food, the presents and everything ready for a nice Christmas. This is the children’s and my time and THAT will have to be my focus!
Just need to find the tree
Me:44 W:43 D7, D5 (S11 from other R)
T: 8y - not M ILYB: 8. Mar 2013 W moved: 1. Aug 2013 LRT: 20. Aug 2013 _______________________________ Do or do not – there’s no try.
F, I am too tired to analyze that whole convo, but did want to say you might want to think some more about adding the condition that you have to be in a place you like in the R. Think about how that would come across if the roles were reversed. Also, we have seen how she reacts to you telling her you have "demands."
Just my $.02, but I feel like you should decide yes or no, or an alternative arrangement (as in you all go together, for example), but if you can't say yes without a bunch of conditions/demands, maybe just say no. But make sure you are saying no for your own reasons and not to punish her.
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
