NEW LIFE / NEW ME - AIRBORNE II

[Fartiltre]

Haven’t spoken to W for some days now and I feel a little hopeless. Her pursuing seems to have stopped for now.

I visited a friend Wednesday, cancelled another appointment with another friend Thursday, did a pubcrawl and stayed over at a third friend yesterday and today I have been at S10 school, had lunch at one of Ws best friends and her H and in an hour or so a fourth friend is coming to my place and staying over! I am GALing my a$$ off and I think I have done a good job GALing the lasts months, but W is on my mind constantly! I miss her and I love her!

I am on the way down on the roller coaster and I feel my hope diminishing these days. She just seems gone! So I will once again put on the happy face and act-as-if, apply time and patience and put the focus on me! This is not a marathon these days – it feels more like a 100K endurance run in Sahara so I will put on my sunglasses

I called W today to talk with D6 about wishes for Christmas. She didn’t pick up so I texted and asked her to get D6 to call me. An hour later D6 called and we talked and hung up. 5 min later D4 called and chatted. Nice to hear from them and talk to them. I miss them. Talked to both but W didn’t come to the phone and I didn’t ask her to.

I will have to call W tomorrow or Monday and get the Christmas sorted out. I owe her some answers. I haven’t changed my mind so I will stick to the plan. I am planning on taking the children to a movie on the 25 and have been thinking about asking W to join but once again this will just be serving her cake that she haven’t even asked for so I properly wont.

Sandi,
Can I have your opinion on a sentence like this:
W, You made the decision to brake us up and I don’t want to confuse the children or others about the two of us … me attending a little private birthday might just do exactly that

Thanks
F

[Fartiltre]

The turmoil is still increasing!

I had a friend staying over and he just left. I made us a nice dinner and we just talked all evening and shared a lot of red wine yesterday. Never left the kitchen. It was nice. He spilled that he and others are talking about me and that they see and feel me changing a lot. At some point he even asked me if I had considered that all of these changes might cost me friends because I am turning in to somebody else.

I received an email yesterday late afternoon from W but didn’t see it until today.

In subject line "A drawing from D4 to daddy :-)"
The email contained a drawing that D4 did on the computer, Ws auto signature and nothing else.

I answered

Hi sweet D4
Thank you so much for the fine drawing. I got very happy when I received it.
We might print it out and hang it on the wall together.
Say hi to mom and D6 many times
Dad


These days I wonder if I am too withdrawn.

[melissag]

F, I am right there with you. My H came over for Thanksgiving, and acted like he did when he still lived here, rubbing my shoulders while I was cooking, happy, hanging out as a family, we ML after dinner. Since then - big time quiet. A few hit and run texts where I assume he was just checking to see if he could still pull my strings (once I answered, he stopped). But other than that pretty much only contact is re: kids.

I guess he did say he wants to spend Xmas as a family, and we are going out together tonight . . . but other than that, I feel like he is moving farther away and it makes me feel very nervous. I love my H and miss him too. It $ucks.

My DB coach says to expect that after some forward movement by WAS, there will be a step or two back. She also says that quiet isn't bad - it means he/she is thinking. If your last interactions were good, that's what you have left her with to think about, so at least there's that, right?

Then I do the same as you, and wonder if I am the one who is backing off.

I guess you can always test and check, right? Send her a little text or email, something funny and light, and see if/how she responds.

Maybe this is wishful thinking, but I am not convinced that all WASs think they are in the driver's seat as much as we feel they are. Even though they have asked for space and we are giving it to them, that doesn't mean that we need to put the entire burden on them to reconnect. Depends on the situation, of course, but where the WAS is friendly and things seem to be going fine, but he/she has been quiet, I don't think that reaching out in a test and check fashion is a big risk.

On an unrelated note, I noticed some of the European folks here use the word "properly" in a way that we Americans do not. I am trying to figure out what it means. Does it mean "probably" or "rightly"? Or something else? Just curious.

[Fartiltre]

Melissa,

Thank you so much! I really really needed a post like this!
I have just looked up properly and I can see why you are confused. I use it as “might”. “I might do it” is the same as “I will properly do it”

I guess you can always test and check, right? Send her a little text or email, something funny and light, and see if/how she responds.

I have committed myself to not test and check so I won’t (until I will) and at the same time I wouldn’t know what to text her. I haven’t sent W anything for almost 4 months now – unless it is about the children or practical’s.
She did text today – I will post that shortly! It’s nothing major!
For now I will just remember this: My DB coach says to expect that after some forward movement by WAS, there will be a step or two back.
I knew but forgot – Thank you so much for reminding me. Helps me keep the hope!
Thanks
F

[Fartiltre]

Text today
W (12:49)
Hey. On Thursday they have a special lunch at D4 and she is supposed to bring 10 NOT cooked chicken legs. Have a nice Sunday
Me (15:10)
I will handle that. Thanks and right back at you – big hugs for the Ds
W (15:13)
Deal they say hello
It’s a little hard to translate but her wordings are loose, pleasant, nice and smileys in both.

I will call her tomorrow and
1. Get the Christmas days planned. I haven’t changed my mind.
She can come here on the 23.
She comes here the 26 and we go together to church.
S10 and I will not attend her birthday.

2. Invite her to the movie. I feel like inviting her to join me and the kids for a movie on the 25 and if I still feel like that tomorrow I properly will. I haven’t initiated anything for almost 4 months and perhaps it is time.
Thoughts or advice?? Am I just serving cake?

3. I will also tell her that I am sending out Christmas-cards. We have done this together since we met and I think it will hurt her (Call it mindreading or caring). I have been soul-searching a lot to be sure that I am not doing this for any other reason than making me feel good. I do not want to hurt W but at the same time I will not withhold myself on something like this just because she might get hurt.

[lovethehub]

F,

Do you still have a coach? Are you making the small gestures and moves towards W that were discussed recently? Could it be that she isn't answering her phone, adding anything to the email except the picture, etc. because that is what she is getting from you?

MWD says to adjust what isn't working. Do you feel that what you are doing is working? Do you see any adjustments you can make?

LRT is to show them you are moving on but you are supposed to show them the new & improved you, be friendly, etc. Sometimes it does seem as if you are very withdrawn from W and it doesn't always sound like think it sends the message you want to.

[Fartiltre]

LTH,
Thanks once again!

Do you still have a coach?

Yes, I spoke with her some weeks ago. She told me that I was on the right path. She told me the same as you, Sandi and others have done.

Are you making the small gestures and moves towards W that were discussed recently?

I have opened up when we talk! I try not to be as withdrawn and I try to be more kind but I haven’t initiated anything.

Could it be that she isn't answering her phone, adding anything to the email except the picture, etc. because that is what she is getting from you?

I think she didn’t answer simply because she was busy or didn’t hear it. She normally answers and when I text I normally get response very quickly.
…but YES, she could also be doing this because she gets nothing from me.

MWD says to adjust what isn't working. Do you feel that what you are doing is working?

THIS is my biggest problem! I see small things that could be positives, it could be nothing and it could be her just wanting the family-cake. I simply don’t know! When I am up I read her doings as her softening a little and when I am down I see her making her new life without me. All the business with XW1 could be W establishing the family-time I wouldn’t give her.
All in all I do not see her moving towards me (as I write this). I see her waving, I get hugs, she is always kind…and so on! At the same time I hear that she is sad and crying. I do not know how to read these things.
I could ask friends that talk with her about how she is and get clearance, but I see this as snooping and therefore I have not done it.

Do you see any adjustments you can make?

I can open more!
I can be even more talkative.
I can do things with her and I can initiate them. I haven’t initiated anything for months!
I could invite her to come along sometimes
I can tell her more about what the kids and I are doing.
I can respond quicker.
I think the keyword is: Initiate.
But isn’t this serving cake?

I could start asking her about her life
I could show some interest towards her life
Keyword here is: Interest.

As I have read the advice give and MWD initiating and interest isn’t what I want to do – but I just might have gone overboard on both. That does sound like me
Other than initiating and interest I wouldn’t know what to do, but I am SOOO open to suggestions!

LRT is to show them you are moving on but you are supposed to show them the new & improved you, be friendly, etc. Sometimes it does seem as if you are very withdrawn from W and it doesn't always sound like think it sends the message you want to.

That’s also my fear and I agree!


Do you think I should start initiating and show more interest in her life?
Can you give me some examples of the small gestures?

Thanks a million!
F

[Fartiltre]

This will be long, but two things happened yesterday!
(I know there is mindreading in this, but that’s me trying to explain what I felt and think – not what I am acting on!)

I received a text yesterday morning from W about some practical’s about scouting and birthdays. She ended the text with something about her setting the Ds off this morning and that it went fine.

I called W a little later and we talked for 45 min.

I started out by commenting on her text and we talked a little about setting D4 off at kindergarten.

Then I said that we have to plan Christmas.

I began with the church-thing and explained that I do not see it fit to shift the Ds there and that I think it would be better if she came out here first.

Then W said “D6 asked: does daddy come to the birthday”

I told her that I won’t and then shifted back to the church, the Ds and the shift at church.

Then she told me that MIL will be there and I told W that she can just bring her along

W: “Will you not go to the church then?”
Me: “Yes, off course and then S10 and I will go back home afterwards”

This part of the convo was a little odd. Breaks and so! She seemed disappointed about me and S10 not coming to the birthday, but she didn’t state anything. She didn’t ask why we wouldn’t join the party.

Then I shifted to the 25/12 and the movie. I told her that I planned to take the kids and then said “If you feel like it you are welcome to join us”
She seemed a surprised, but gave a pleasant “Yes, that would be super-nice”

I left it there and moved on to the 23/12 and told her that she was most welcome and that we could do some buns or likewise and just hang out with the children.

Then I told her that I am sending out Christmas cards and asked for SILs address. W got a little quiet but gave me the address.
She didn’t comment further on this.

All of this took 6-7 min. I think this part of the convo went OK but listening to it afterwards I come out a little weak: Long breaks, hard to find the words, tone and so

Then a pause….

W: “What about presents…”
Me: “What do you mean….”
W: “Just so we do not give the same…”
Me: “Ahh…”
…..and then I went through the presents I have bought while she commented.

W talked a lot during this part about D6 doing this and that.

She asked about the gift for D6 and I told her that I am getting her a toolbox. She told me that she has been considering the same but if I am giving this she won’t.

Break in convo and then….

W: Have you heard about [mutual friend].
Me: Yes I had lunch there Saturday

(Our mutual friend is one of Ws best friend and she just got fired)

We talked some about this. I told W about my views
This part was hard because it was about ending relationships.

I told W that “The Boss has not wanted the dialogue or to search for common ground, she hasn’t discussed her views……"

I didn’t feel well stating this since W might feel pressured by it.

Then W shifted towards D4 and the general troubles at the kindergarten. I told W my views on this and she agreed to them.

Then I asked “Have you had a nice weekend?”
W talked about all kind of things they have been doing together for some time.

Afterwards she talked about all the friends D6 are playing with and visiting.

Me: “I will have to go now?”
W: “I had a total computer breakdown Friday”
Me: “OK, what does that mean”

Then she explained about that.

W: “And then I have talked with somebody about renting a little office”
Me: “Sounds interesting….”

Then W started talking about her job-situation and changing this. She complained a lot about her second job and told that she wants to focus on her own business.

Me: “Then it is back to own business again?”
W: “Looks that way”
Me: “Then just do it!” (with a smile/positive!)

Then something about her own business, customers and that it is going great.

Me: “Now I will leave – I have to go to the postoffice “
W: “Yes – do that”
Me: “We have a meeting out here all day so I am in a hurry now!”
W: “Ohh, you have a meeting. How are things at work?”

I told her about the uncertainty at work these days, about a friend getting single and that I don’t feel I have the time needed these days. I ended this with “…so I am really looking forward to a vacation.” I also told her that it will be hard not to have the children around but that the schedule is filled with other stuff.

Me: “Ok lets end it here”
W: “Yes, F – it’s ok” (With compassion as I heard it)
Me: “You will get back to me on the Christmas days?”
W: “What do you mean?”
Me: "We have to get the 23 settled and what to do that day”
W: "Yes, off course – only challenge will be D4 and saying goodbye”
Me: “She will get very sad”
W: “Perhaps we can soften it up someway”
Me: “Yes, and we should. I talk a lot with D4 these about all of this.”

Then we talked about D4 being sad but also that she shows. I told W that I wish for D6 to do the same. W tried to explain D6 being sad:

W: “I just think there is so much going on in D6s life with school, new friends and so”
Me: “I totally agree but when I look at D6 I see that she is sad”
Break
W: “I also think she is sad and that’s totally natural”

Then W told about D6 making a drawing of a heart and writing the first letter of my name and Ws name in it and asking W how to spell sweethearts. W had asked her what the letters stood for and D6 gave her our names. Then they had laughed and W had said “but that isn’t entirely truth….” To D6 that answered “No but once you were”. W told me that something comes out this way and we were sweethearts once.

We had a long talk about this. W stated that she is not that worried several times and that she is sure
D6 still states that she is sad, that she misses. W doesn’t see it as problem. I told W that I am in doubt about this, that I have considered finding a professional that D6 can talk with.
We talked about this for around 10 min.



MY THOUGHTS:
It seems like I end the subjects and then W picks up a new one. She likes to talk to me but she seems so totally gone during a convo like this.
She expresses happiness, that things are great, that her concerns about the Ds isn’t that big…and so on.

I come out a little silent, very thinking, I listen and comment.

I find it hard talk to W about the Ds missing and hurting. We do not see this, the same way and that just might be the result of our own situation and feelings. The truth is between our views but discussing it feels like putting pressure on her. I might see the children hurting more than they really are and vice versa.

I can’t figure out what I think about a convo like this with regards to pressure, going dim and so. Some part of me thinks this was a huge mistake and another part thinks that I have to show her a little of the new me sometimes.



WOW! BIG WOW!!
Yesterday I had to partners that also are two of my best friends over.
We had a business meeting all day and then dinner and talk. At some point one of them looked at me and out of the blue said something like “F, if I am ever going to go through what you have – I hope I am able to do it the way you have.” Then these two guy’s used 5-7 min praising me, telling me how good it is to see me work on me, expressing which changes they see. They simply stated that from their POV I am do an outstanding job. One of them said: "You have always been a rock in my life as a friend and businesspartner and you are right back being that again." They see my 180s. They said so many nice things to me! I listened to this with tears in my eyes. (Get them again writing this) Afterwards I thanked them deeply.
This lifted me so much!

[melissag]

F, I think that conversation sounds fine! I wouldn't spend too much time trying to mind read. I think it is nice that you invited her to the movie and she immediately responded with an enthusiastic 'yes.' Instead of viewing the conversation as "she seems happy without me," maybe look at it is as a good interaction between the two of you. Also, look what happened. You decided to reach out a bit, and she responded positively. See how that movie goes. If it goes well, why not reach out again? Just in little ways. See what transpires.

I think another low risk way to test and check is to send a funny text or email, maybe forwarding a link of a story that reminded you of her, or tell her something funny that happened, or whatever. Or even something about the kids that is funny?

I'm glad your friends shared their thoughts and compliments with you - it does feel so good to have the support of others, doesn't it? And you are lucky to have RL friends who aren't bashing your W or telling you to move on.

F, it sounds like things are going well, keep up the forward momentum in baby steps until she gives you a sign to stop. Just my $.02.

[sandi2]

Hi F, I am reading and keeping up on your posts. Even though your W has not asked (yet)why you won't attend her party, I wanted to get back to your question. But first, I'll copy and paste what I said.

Originally Posted By: Sandi
I believe you should tell her that it could be sending mixed messages about the two of you being a couple if you were to show up at her party.

Again, due to translation, I can see how you may misunderstand, Plus, I really didn't go into it detailed enough for you. Now your version.......

Sandi,
Can I have your opinion on a sentence like this:
W, You made the decision to brake us up and I don’t want to confuse the children or others about the two of us … me attending a little private birthday might just do exactly that

Omit telling her "W, You made the decision to brake us up and I
don’t want to confuse the children or others". If you word it that way, it will incite her anger toward you. It is not your goal to make her mad at you, but rather drive your point home without sounding judgmental and punitive. Really, it would be better to ask her with a leading question, instead of just "telling" her what it might do. If you "ask" her in a kind way (almost charming), "Couldn't it (meaning your attendance at the party)send mixed messages about the two of us being a couple again?" You say nothing about the children or anyone else. Don't use the words "you" nor say what "I" want, etc. By asking her if attending her party "could" send mixed messages, you aren't pointing a judgmental/punitive finger at her and verbally blaming her for the children's pain, etc. Trust me, that is exactly how it would sound to her ears! Plus, then if you go on to add that self-righteous F doesn't want to do what she's apparently done to add hurt/confusion......oh, then you've really set yourself up for trouble.

I know. You didn't see any of that in your answer, right?

But you see, she still gets the message how "she has caused this stitch" without you actually giving her cause to be angry at what you have said in words. You are saying it very charming. Plus, it puts it on her back. You didn't have to give her a flat out "no", but you've already done it, so you may not get a chance to apply what I suggested. But next time, you lead by asking her a question. Then, she has to answer it. That "could" open the door for some flirty conversation, or not, IDK. But I see it being a much more friendly way of dealing with this type of invitation.

Can you see the difference in the two answers? Your objective at this point of your stitch is not to verbally remind her that she is to blame for everyone's unhappiness and now she has to live with it. She is already living with a great deal of it (according to reports from friends) and if you still desire reconciliation, then you need to work on being warm and charming. You charmed your way into her heart the first time......do it again.

Remember, I told you that you would take small steps to see if she warmed toward you. This is the time to do it. The holidays present opportunities. Initiate an invitation to the movies. Keep things friendly and warm during the holiday season. If she turns cold or pulls away, then you step back some. At the beginning of January, you can evaluate. If positives continue, you may even take a chance of asking her to the movies without the kids. And.....if she accepts, make sure you get XW1 to babysit. (ha)