NEW LIFE / NEW ME - AIRBORNE II

[melissag]

I often read a post from a LBS express concern the WAS might think interest has been lost. However, I have never read where the LBS began pursuing the WAS just in the nick of time (to show they were still interested). No offense to the previous poster, but why do LBS fear the WAS will think they've lost interest? When in fact, detaching is (in part) to imply disinterest. And, unless human nature has changed a lot, it use to be the very thing that would motivate a woman to flirt with a man......in order to stir his interest in her. If he responds too quickly, or over kills showing just how interested he is.......she often loses hers. Yes, it is a game between the sexes. But IMO, most people will play into it at some point in their lifetime.

Sandi, I think this is a common fear among LBSs whose S left because they felt unappreciated, unloved, what have you. My H told me he actually thought I would be happy if he left - that is how deeply unwanted/unloved he felt. So it can feel, to an LBS like me, that if we act disinterested, we will simply be proving the WAS right, and it will help solidify his/her decision.

Every sitch is different, but I will say with my H, that he responds to a good mix of disinterest (or giving space, however you want to characterize that) and feeling wanted/loved/respected. Even though I think it should be pretty clear that I love him and want him, I think he is so scarred by how rejected he felt before that he is still not 100% confident in how I feel. So to only be mysterious and distant, I think, would be the wrong way to go for me.

I agree with you on the power dynamic - but think about that woman who lost interest in the guy who showed too much interest. She is probably just as likely to lose interest if the guy shows no interest in her. For fear of wasted effort, or just plain rejection. So what I'm trying to say is - it's a balance. Too little interest, IMO, is just as bad as too much. But there needs to be SOME, at some point, if there is to be an R. Right?

But see, I also don't see how fully detaching is a good thing for any M, so I am just a rogue DBer, and my advice should be taken with a salt lick.

[lovethehub]

I think we all agree it is balance and that is what Sandi is trying to get across to F in her last post, and I have also said it. You need a good balance of not interested/interested. If F leaves each encounter thinking it could be considered 'cold' by W, that is not a good sign. F, you want to be warm without pursuing!

[Fartiltre]

I had a great night out yesterday. Me and two guys met up and simply just talked for the hole evening and most of the night.
One of the guys is M to a friend of W and he told that she is sad, that she had visited them and told so. He asked me at some point who made the decision to split up. I told him that W did. I told him that I tried to get her to reconsider her decision until the date we told the children. He then stated that he thinks she is sad because I have moved on, because I was doing good, had sorted out my life and so on. At some point he said “Well, who knows – she could be in problems, be missing you or wanting to get back together. I don’t know!”

I am still not sharing DBing or my wish to R with anybody but I find myself talking more about what I am doing and the personal growth/development I work on. They told me they see the change and that I am doing well. I shared my experience from the hypnosis and we had a good talk about the monsters within us

Today I have been working at home with a neighbor. We had a splendid day and suddenly this guy’s tells me that he and his W really hope that I will be able to stay out here on the countryside – simply because they like me. We have been making preparations for next weekend when we have 50 people over for Christmas party – nice day today as well.

Movember ended today and I did very well:) Raised a ton of money and have been getting so many positive strokes from friends all around!


Sandi,
Thanks again for sticking with me!
I am feeling very good these days because I am getting myself back. I am turning back in to a good catch W and sit is on my mind but the thoughts are changing. I have found myself wondering a few times today whether I want to R. I do, but I am also realizing how long and hard this road will be if it is ever to happen!
I feel I am growing these days, I feel on top and I feel more self-confident. I get so many positive strokes from people around me that it would be hard not to feel this way.

She is missing having you giving her emotional support/caring/interest and is finally realizing this separation isn't at all like she thought it would be.

Something is going on and IMO she is realizing these days but if she misses IDK – still I trust your judgment and hope you are right. I think a lot is going on that I don’t know of. My friend (from yesterday evening) offered to ask his W but I declined it. I think it should be considered snooping and it would put focus on W.

But what I've seen is you withdrawing a bit too much lately.

Can you do it without making it sound like you want to know all about her?

Then I will open up a bit and yes, I can do this! As I read you:
In the weeks to come I will when/if I see W in person ask her a question or two about her life. I think I will go with subjects like: her new TV-set, working situation and Christmas preparation. I will make the questions about something and not just generals like “How are you”.
If she starts talking I will simply listen and comment - I won’t share my own life and I will not try to fix hers.
Otherwise I will keep doing what I am doing in regards of e-mails, texting and phonecalls. I won’t reach out, I will answer questions but if she doesn’t state a question I won’t reply to her text/email.
I will continue to keep phonecalls short and I will end them
If she invites to doing something I will either accept or counter if I am able too. (My GAL is very well this month and I have a busy schedule.)
I will be a little more accepting to invitations than earlier on
If we end up seeing each other it will be with the children and then I will see to that all four of us interacts. I will initiate a board game, a movie, a walk to the beach and so on.
If she invites me to her house I feel like turning it down. I won’t feel comfortable there!
I will continue working on my eye-contact. This is not just a problem with W. It is a general problem but through my awareness I will get better.
I will focus even more on my tone of voice and looks

Is this approx. correct?

I hope you understand and won't be confused by any of what I have said. I just don't want you to run away from her and I don't want her to misinterpret your actions as rudeness. I want you to be very self confident. Do you understand, or does it sound like I am contradicting myself?

No contradiction read! As I read you, you simply want me to reach out a tiny bit more than I have done and I see this as a natural step. I don’t see myself as rude and after yesterday I now know that the way I have been acting has the support from people around me! This DBing is really starting to make sense!
My confidence is up and down but it is definitely rising!

LTH,

I think we all agree it is balance and that is what Sandi is trying to get across to F in her last post, and I have also said it. You need a good balance of not interested/interested. If F leaves each encounter thinking it could be considered 'cold' by W, that is not a good sign. F, you want to be warm without pursuing!

Warm, without pursuing – I like that one Now I will have to put it into action and that might be a little harder on me than I realize but I will get there. You and Sandi keeps me busy!
I hope you agree to the list in the above answer to Sandi.


Melissa,
Thanks for stopping by!
There’s a lot of lurkers in here but that just makes me feel good. I have been blessed with so much advice on this travel and I do hope that others can benefit from the time the VETs have invested in me. That said it is nice to know one of the lurkers. I am not up to speed with your sit.

So, vets might jump on me for this, but I do think that you need to (in very small and calculated ways) push things a little and see what happens. I mean, you can't follow the 37 rules forever, or your W will eventually think you have lost interest. JMO.

I think one of the major problems in all of this is that LBS act’s premature. We talk about patience and time but if the WAS reaches out with the tip of a finger we tend to eat their arm of. Some months ago Sandi and LTH dragged me through this process. They guided me, educated me and told me what to do. I am still not totally sure that I understand fully but I am getting closer every day.
I also believe that the WAS needs to think that the LBS has lost interest and moved on. This is needed for them to start thinking “WTF, is going on around me?”. Some of the things I see happened around me could be small signs that my W is at this point. IMO this doesn’t mean that R is closer – it just means that she is watching.
Right now my biggest issue is not W – she is gone and living her life. My biggest issue is me! I have so many things I want to do, people I want to see, things I want to do with the children and most of all I have so many areas of development inside me and in my life – sometimes I even wonder if W has a place here. I feel better and better living as a singledad.
About the subjects to talk about I think it is important to make these about them and not us. I haven’t told W about anything in my life since I started LRT. Therefore I also believe that talking to her should be started with a question about her and not a story about me. VETs will hopefully tell me if I am wrong.
I am rather certain that W wants to share but I have turned her down so many times that she simply has given up. Now I will reach out a little and see if this changes anything.

My H told me he actually thought I would be happy if he left - that is how deeply unwanted/unloved he felt.

Or this is just WAS BS – he could just need a justification for himself! I am doing this to make you happy, I am doing this to make your life better….this sounds like scripting. Take your focus of it but do counter it if he states this again!
H, you making the decision to break up out family will not make me happy. This is a decision you have made for you and I do hope it makes it possible for you to find the happiness you are looking for.
…or something like that.

Thanks all!

F

[hotwheelsaust]

F, good to hear from you. Also good to hear you had another great night out.
Was going to reply to a few of your comments, but felt they were more about me, rather than about you. So added them into my thread.

[labug]

Originally Posted By: Melissa
My H told me he actually thought I would be happy if he left - that is how deeply unwanted/unloved he felt.

Or this is just WAS BS – he could just need a justification for himself! I am doing this to make you happy, I am doing this to make your life better….this sounds like scripting. Take your focus of it but do counter it if he states this again!

Hi F, my H has said things very similar to this and I believe him now and believed him then. I think we do ourselves a disservice when we label everything as "LBS script" because we then begin dealing with a shadow person we create in our minds, not the living, breathing, feeling human standing in front of us. Many WASs say the same things but so do the LBSs, it doesn't make it less true.

When H said that to me it caused me to really look at ME, I cleaned my mirror and took a good look. I was sorely lacking in some departments and his words opened up in me an opportunity to change. I want to stress that the change wasn't for him, it was for me because if I was like that in my M, I was also like that in other Rs.

When this topic comes up it also begs the question "Why would I want to remain married to someone who I thought continually spouted BS?"

[bustingout]

That's a really good point Bug. I never thought about it that way. I guess because we do hear such similar comments in our sitchs that we can tend to always put it down to the script. And while I do believe there is some script, I never thought about it the way you described it.

Thanks for that!

[melissag]

I'm pretty sure that my H really meant it when he said he thought I'd be happy. He said it during a R convo that was not heated at all. I was saying something about how I felt about him and he was surprised to hear it, because he had it in his head that I just couldn't stand him. Now, he has also said that he thinks everyone will be happier and better off if we split (including the children, ha!), and that I do kind of write off as script (he may believe it to be true, but it's clearly a lie he is telling himself at least with respect to the children), but the other comment I think he really meant.

I think one of the major problems in all of this is that LBS act’s premature. We talk about patience and time but if the WAS reaches out with the tip of a finger we tend to eat their arm off.

Yes - I agree with this 100%. Thankfully, I have not yet eaten my H's arm off, though in my head it's way more than just his arm.

I also believe that the WAS needs to think that the LBS has lost interest and moved on. This is needed for them to start thinking “WTF, is going on around me?”. Some of the things I see happened around me could be small signs that my W is at this point. IMO this doesn’t mean that R is closer – it just means that she is watching.

It does seem that your W is at this point now - so maybe you can just nibble on her finger a little and see if she offers up some more.

About the subjects to talk about I think it is important to make these about them and not us. I haven’t told W about anything in my life since I started LRT. Therefore I also believe that talking to her should be started with a question about her and not a story about me. VETs will hopefully tell me if I am wrong.

Hmm. I agree with this somewhat - but what I meant about telling a story about me is, I tell H something he would appreciate or think is funny, or about someone he knows. Maybe something that has to do with one of his interests or hobbies. It's hard to talk about the other person without asking any questions about his/her life, right?

I am rather certain that W wants to share but I have turned her down so many times that she simply has given up. Now I will reach out a little and see if this changes anything.

Good, I hope this works out well, and will be checking back for good news!

[Fartiltre]

Monday afternoon here! I haven’t spoken with W since Friday and didn’t expect to since Mil has stayed at her place this weekend.
Sunday was a quiet day. I worked the outhouses a bit and been to the forest, met up with the neighbors and talked a little and played an online game with S10 for an hour or so.
W/sit has been on my mind. After interactions with her I tend to move my focus from me back to her and sit afterwards.

Labug,
(In the below I have spewing and spouting meaning the same - I hope this is correct, but please correct my english if it isnt)
I follow you and think your point is interesting but it is hard for me to believe that a person will leave a R to make another person happy. I am not saying it can’t happen but IMO the WAS leaves primarily to save themselves from further hurt. They might think that while doing that they also “save” the LBS. The WAS might even think this is true but I haven’t read any LBS seeing things this way – so…. It might feel real to them but rarely has it anything to do with reality – just my opinion.

That said you might have a point about us using the WAS-script and us looking at our S as an alien, in the fog or a completely different person. We tend to look too much at the WAS as being another person. While you are right on this I also believe that us doing so helps us to keep going. Especially right after BD we need hope so much and this gave me hope. “They can wake up at some point” gives hope to a lot of people.

When this topic comes up it also begs the question "Why would I want to remain married to someone who I thought continually spouted BS?"

Well, I think in common we live with this because of the above. We accept and explains the spew with the fog, script and likewise. I also believe that most of us will have to forget and forgive both ourselves and our spouse. If I took all the things that W have told me for granted, unchangeable and inexcusable I would already have changed my goal. I have “I don’t love you” and “I don’t want to live with you” on the top of the list and that beats most the spew I have heard.

So to me the spouting will not be a problem and neither will her leaving in the first place. She has told me several times all kind of unpleasant things, but I do accept these as her feelings and after 9 months of this I also start to have a very clear picture of why she felt and feels that way. I am seemingly lucky to have an amicable WAW but she has spewed. I understand that she does this from a place of hurt and anger and thereby I have no problems with these things at all.

I see the spew as her reacting to me and life in general, but the goal right now is to change me and life in general and that will hopefully also change the R and her spewing.

I hope this makes sense!

[Fartiltre]

W called this evening – I almost expected this, sorry to say!

I had prepared a few questions but I didn’t need them.

She started out by asking “How are things” and I replied “Fine” held a little break and then for the first time since LRT asked her “How are you?”

Then she started out by telling about MIL visiting, the Ds liking this and that they have had a great weekend.
Then a lot about D6 having some minor issues with two friends that both want her to call them best friend – long talk about this. I told her she handled the talk well since I believe she did.

Then something about Christmas TV-shows and then she stopped talking for a while. I asked her a short question and she started again. This time about D4 being sad when people leaves her and saying goodbye.

When this came to an end I told her that I will pick up bags as usual Wednesday and that I would like for her to make sure the warm clothing is packed. Then she talked a lot about clothing.

I ended the call hereafter. The end was a bit funny. It came a little abrupt and I felt she wanted to keep talking…just a feeling! Call lasted 7 min.

I feel I was more open and I don’t feel I was cold. I would say a little withdrawn, reserved and sparse in words but still quite nice and listening. I didn’t tell her about my life except for the fine at the beginning.
I feel I did good and sticked with the plan!

It seems like this is her cake at the moment, as Sandi has told me. It is crazy knowing that she is expressing so much sadness and still acting like this. It’s just like me, except I try not to express it I know I shouldn’t mindread, but it is hard not to give this a thought with all the things I have learned and experienced over the last two weeks.
I won’t act on anything – just a thought!

Tomorrow S10 and I have taken the day off and we will go hunting for a doe-calf. I am looking so much forward to this. It is the first time we will stalk together – and in fact I think we are equally exited.

[sandi2]

Good job!