I've looked at life from both sides now

[Raine]

Old friends are acting strange
They shake their heads, they say I've changed
Well something's lost but something's gained
In living every day

Previously on Rebuilding Raine:
1st - Completely heartbroken by husband's MLC
2nd - Rinse, repeat, replay
3rd - Here we go loopty loo. Here we go loopty li.
4th - Crazy little thing called MLC
5th - Back home, for all the wrong reasons
6th - One month down, zero casualties
7th - I am titanium

[Pudmuddle]

Hi Raine,

I read through your last post only, but I wanted to say I am very impressed by your strength, calm and articulation during tough times. My H and I are still in the same house and I have so many days when I want to tell him to just get out. But I am terrified of this right now. I hope to have your strength and less fear of the outcome someday. Thank you for your inspiring story.

[Raine]

It's strange to look back at my last thread. That thread has been there for nearly three months, and typically before, a thread would last a month for me.

There is a pull to do an update, but the thought of it is exhausting. It's strange to look at that last thread. The beginning of started with so much positive energy, and within hours of that post I was in a parking lot telling him to get out.

And now? So much has changed. How could it be that was only three months ago? It's changed. It's still crap. Just not as much crap. A different crap. Less smelly crap? It's the crap that I thought a year ago I wanted. A year ago this crap smelled like 5 dozen red roses and tasted like Belgium chocolates. I would have done anything to have this. I would have accepted this. Now? Eh. Now I'm unbelievably awesome and I want it all. Ego much there? Hah!

He is reconnecting...I think I can call it that. I don't know. I don't trust it and I don't have any expectations it will continue. And perhaps that allows me to accept it and just go with it. He is leading this dance and I am doing everything I can to not step on his toes. Let's be honest. I'm doing everything I can to not stomp on his toes and kick him in the shins.

It became clear to me a few weeks ago that not only was he cycling, but so was I. When I did something for the third time, I stepped back and saw my pattern. And that recognition is hopefully enough to break that pattern once and for all.

Now what is interesting about my H and perhaps this is common, but his fear of rejection is astronomical. I have put myself on the line countless times, to which he has zero response to. And a normal person would have felt completely rejected and broken from all of this, but now I'm just feeling like, "Eh, it's not me. Oh well. It is what it is. Keep moving lady and let him twirl and spin." He knows how I feel and that I am willing, but there is an incredible fear there.

So he approaches things very timidly, typically as a complaint or a problem. My response is usually first empathy. Complaint continues. My next response is a question, like, "how do you think it could be fixed?" It continues, as he doesn't have a solution. I then make a suggestion, to which he has a reason why that solution won't work or why the problem really isn't a problem and doesn't matter. To which I will then open up and make a clarification that, the issue is his. That where he is an the reason for the problem is his choice and not mine, and I am comfortable with his decision and choice on this matter. And then he will make a move of reconnection. At that point he will move towards me. No further discussion. He will not ask if he can. At that point when it has been acknowledged that it is his choice, he will just start doing it.

We are making baby steps. And there are multiple catalysts causing him to change. And it is crazy difficult to feel that change, to see that change, to see the old loving him and the sweet new him, but without any acknowledgement or any communication towards me of wanting to work on things. It is very much like he wants to slip right back into the marriage without dealing with the past. And I am okay with that for now. I'm going with it--for now. But there hasn't been a "let's take this slowly" or "let's try" or ANYTHING communication wise. And that's strange to me, but what about this last year isn't strange?

[job]

Raine,
He is reconnecting in his own way at his own space. He's not going to come out and say let's try or take things slowly because he is still in the tunnel and doesn't realize what he's doing. The best thing you can do is to continue as you have been. You really are at the place where most lbs get frustrated and start pushing for a full reconciliation, as well as an apology. Don't push, don't rush the process. He didn't go into crisis in one day, therefore it's going to take some time for him to finish growing up and come out face the real world.

Hang in there. You are doing great. Inch by inch, slowly but surely is the way to go now.

[chasingpavements]

I find that my H and I both tend to approach each other very timidly since BD. It's like we are afraid of each other and always walking on eggshells. I guess my H and I have both put up walls when it comes to talking to each other.. time to break down those walls!!

BTW.. is your thread title a Joni Mitchell song? Love it!

-cp

[complicated]

Raine,
I am so envious that you are able to be so patient. It is what I haven't been able to do. I do real good then I do a great big slide. I chalk it up to straddling between "done" and "let's keep trying".

I'm with you. Sometimes the thought of posting is exhausting but I still keep up with everyone's threads because I still want to know how everyone is doing and hoping that everyone's patience will rub off on me! lol

How are your kids doing through all of this?

It is interesting how you say your H is cycling because I think that is exactly what my h is doing yet I have to wonder, how long will they cycle? How long can I take the cycling? I don't know. How does your H respond when you remind him the issue is his? Does he ever talk about it or just move toward reconnection? My H, much of the time will say I sent him there. Other times he says he realizes it. When he says I'm the one who made him that way I realize he is still deep in the tunnel....I guess? Still have trouble understanding him but know he has issues. haha Many issues.

You're doing great Raine. You're amazing.

[Raine]

Thanks Wonka, RoseLinda, AJ, Pudmuddle, chasingpavements, job, and complicated for your posts. You don't know how much it means to me and how much they help me.

Yes, my thread title is Joni Mitchell

The kids have been exceptionally well. I think it helps a lot that they are younger. Also, it helps that we have both have been very protective of them. H and I have remained very good friends through all of this. We've never involved or used the kids, and never fought, in front of them, or otherwise. H has been involved in their events too. It's been just a new kind of normal, and they accept that.

However, there have been ramifications for sure, especially with my oldest, now nine. He does not fully accept my H as an authoritative figure. He is very sensitive to H, thinks that H is being mean and teasing. S9 gets very upset, very quickly with H. Tears, hitting him, running from him, etc. S9 comes to me for comfort and talks to me about everything. Before all of this he was very close to H, but now it's very clear that the bond and trust was broken. H and I have been working together to fix that and rebuild it with S9. S9 has also been in C. That relationship is very important to me and I am facilitating the fixing of that the best I can. It's getting better, but I don't expect that R to be healed quickly. It's going to take time.

Both S9 and S6 push the limits to the extreme with H, to the point I've had to tell H, you have to deal with it. They are testing you. My stepping back and allowing that dynamic to play out has helped. H typically would throw his hands up in exasperation, and ask me to step in. I won't anymore, and he deals with it himself now.

I am seeing parts of an old H and a new H when it comes to fathering. A much better father than he has ever been. He is becoming more and more involved, even calling them daily to check on them. There are still things I would like to see improved. Still ways he should be more involved, but I don't feel like his focus on himself and his friends will always be ahead of his sons. I see it shifting slowly.

job, you better believe it this is a frustrating spot, and I biting my tongue and holding and going with it. I'm accepting things for what they are, and not as an expectation. And I don't initiate it. He is making advances, and I'm going with them, and not rejecting him in anyway. I feel like he has wanted this with me for a long time, but felt I would reject him, and so he has continued to hold on to his posse of OW, because he knows they won't reject him, or he doesn't care if they did. This all goes back to him saying he needs that intimacy in his life and he is using OW1 for that because he couldn't have it with me. Yes, the answers do come. I'm not taking things as this means R in anyway. We are not talking about it. I know doing so would push him back into the tunnel. At some point we are going to have to talk, but I accept that time is not right now.

Raine,
How does your H respond when you remind him the issue is his? Does he ever talk about it or just move toward reconnection?

I never tell H that the all encompassing issue is his. He says that. I think he felt that this job was the problem, and once that was cured, it became me. But once I was pretty much out of his life for 7 months, it became very clear to him the issue was his. And we talk about it as it is depression, or other issues. I'm empathetic and I share with him my issues, things I didn't like about myself, things I want to change, things I've been working on, etc. I do take responsibility for where I was wrong and could have been better. There are a lot of 180s in there that I don't talk about, but he has noticed. Many times he has said, "you used to do this" or "you learned early in our marriage I didn't like this" and he talks about these things as if I stopped doing them 10 years ago, when it's actually the last year. He talks about them to other people in a bragging manner, like "My W is understanding or sensitive to that. She should talk to my W."

So let me clarify on the reconnection thing. An example is him complaining about sleeping on the couch with his parents here. Now I was not going to talk about the sleeping arrangements at all. He knew his parents got the guest room, and I left it at that. So he started sleeping on the couch. I didn't say a word about it. So after four nights, he started to complain about his parents waking him up in the night. So we went through the cycle of what can we do to fix it. And anything that was discussed was not going to be a fix. So at that point I said, where you sleep is your choice. I'm okay with what you feel comfortable with. And he brushed that off, as a "no that's not what I'm talking about." To which I said, "You sleeping on the couch is your choice." There was no further discussion. That night he said, "lets go to bed," and he went to the MBR and he has slept there ever since. That was it. He never asked. It was never specifically stated him sleeping in the MBR. It was just enough for him to know he wouldn't be rejected.

[LoisB]

Raine,

I really like reading how you handle your H right now. I see you doing the things I should have been doing for the past year. I think my H is really sensitive to rejection too. Instead of being gentle and comforting, I sensed him pulling away again last June and rammed him with another huge rejection. Probably the worst I've ever done. I drove him into the arms of the OW again.

You're doing great. Keep it up.

Heather

[job]

Raine,
In a way, your situation reminds me of HRM's situation w/her h. The only difference is that you have children. I find it quite funny how he complained about sleeping on the couch and when you advised him that it was his idea he really had to think about the situation. Once he realize that it was his choice and not yours, he changed his tune a bit and slept in the MBR. Love the way you handled it!

Your little boy is growing up slowly but surely. I know it's difficult having patience, but you'll need to dig deeper as time goes on for it.

You are doing great! I'm so proud of you!

[Wonka]

Raine,

You're an awesome DBer!!!

A few questions:

1) Are you two sleeping in the MBR on a regular basis now?
2) Is either one of you wearing your wedding ring?
3) Is H still reaching out to you go play online games?
4) Where are the OWs? Any contact with them?
5) Is H more involved with the baby?

This will help us understand where these things stand so we could offer up some more insight and input on a path forward to ensure that the road is paved smoothly for H to be firmly at home in addition to having both feet in the M.

How's the Fonzie the Bear goin' for you?!