NEW LIFE / NEW ME

[sandi2]

So, if I understand correctly, she can text you anywhere, anytime? Then surely she would let you know when it was one of the kids sick or hurt.

Sometimes I try to say too much in one post. And I am very bad at assuming someone knows. So always ask if there is any doubt....or if my mind gets too fast,for my fingers to keep,up and I leave something out.

Let me go back to your W calling,several times today. You,don't have to ignore her calls. Since you have two little children, there is always a certain risk (which we have already discussed). But the point is to ask her if anything is wrong, find out the facts, and if all she wanted to do was chat........then you know what to do, right?

I also meant to refer to something T1000 said earlier about maybe him (or anyone) not posting so as not to add confusion. I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not suggesting anyone stop! This is a support forum and I would not tell somebody else not to post on your thread. But I do want to point out to any newcomers who may come across your thread to read my advice for you........this does not apply to everyone in every stitch. If newcomers thought it was for them as well, then it could confuse them. They read this thread and jump over and read some other threads, thinking it apples to them. There is advice that pretty much fits most. However, when I arrived here, I didn't see anything for the WAW. It seemed to be advice for the LBS. DBing is geared toward the one wanting to save the M. ( I used myself as an example of people's stitch varying and needing individual tweaking). Is that all clear as mud?

.

[Fartiltre]

Sandi,

So, if I understand correctly, she can text you anywhere, anytime?

Yes, almost! But then again: I am not a guy carrying my cell with me all the time! I don't bring my cell hunting, fishing, running in the forrest or likewise. I like the freedom it makes me feel to put it in a drawer sometimes and simply go off line.
I have given this children-situation a lot of thoughts today and I am possibly coming out as very cold right now, but when we lived together I wasn’t avalilable all the time and neither was she. We trusted each other with the children and their safety and wellbeing. I believe this trust should continue to be there. I trust her with my children and the other way around. I do not have to be available all the time and neither does she. I don’t need to answer her every call just because it could be something about the children….why should this change just because of D?
Am I making sense?

I called her this morning. D6 answered and I talked to her about her schoolday. Then D4 came on and talked and at last W. She had some practical stuff about getting some things here on Friday. I told her that it will be alright and that I won’t be here. This was possibly a mistake since I would not let a friendly neighbor go into my house without me being here – should I correct this and tell her to come at another time?
She mentioned that I owe her some money and I told her that I am not sure this is the case but I will have to go through the expenses for the last months.
That was it! I ended the convo as quickly as possible.

So always ask if there is any doubt....or if my mind gets too fast,for my fingers to keep,up and I leave something out.

I will ask! I have been somewhat confused about answering or not answering her calls.
I forgot to tell her to text me in the future when I talked to her this morning but I will get this done. I will simply state that if anything is wrong with children and I am not able to answer her calls she should always send me a text and that I will do the same the other way around.

But the point is to ask her if anything is wrong, find out the facts, and if all she wanted to do was chat........then you know what to do, right?

Yes, end the call! – As always!

Is that all clear as mud?

I believe I get you and hopefully everybody else does as well.
IMO this wouldn’t have been a good path from day one while living together. It might work now or it might not, but if had done this at day one it would have been more off the same, confirming her decision and a lot of other things that would have worsened my sit – again only my opinion.

Sandi, I am getting closer to understanding what I have to do or in fact what I am already doing! I am still working through all of your advices and making notes for me. When I am done I will post them here and hopefully you will go through them and advise me from there on.

F

[Fartiltre]

Last days have been crazy!

Sandi is keeping my head spinning and I am trying to implement all of the advice I have been given by her and others in the last days. At the same time being single father is a mouthful but I am doing just fine. I still feel all good but I am tired 24/7. I need to finish some of my projects or simply just realize that I can’t do it all at one time.

Tomorrow S10 leaves and I will have a week by myself. It has been lovely having the children but I am in fact looking forward to doing things for me the next week. GAL is coming off good and the coming weekends are fully booked with new people, old friends, usual stuff and new things to do. I often look back on the advice about GAL given to me by 25mlc – It makes so much sense now that I am doing it.

W is still on my mind at least a hundred times a day but sadness is quite rare now. I also find myself not spending as much time in here as I did earlier on. I believe I was at first looking for a magic wand, then answers, then I looked for hope and now I am looking for me. I believe this must be an up and therefore a down is properly right around the corner as always.
Thanks for all the support and advice you all have given me the last days!

Doing good F. Keep it up, keep asking questions.

Oh, I will but right now I am having a hard time keeping up to Sandi’s speed – she has more years to carry than me but it certainly doesn’t show right now. It is not asking the questions that will be giving me problems – it is understanding and implementing the answers that needs work and time – so perhaps I should slow down a little for my own sake.

At any rate, thank you again for this help, and F, I am right there with you, giving this whole polite, distantly friendly, thing with my ex, a go.

Back56, I don’t know your sit but if you can use some off this then good but be sure to read what Sandi wrote about going down this path – it is in her opinion not for everyone. I am still new to all this but still I get Sandi when she writes this.

Really pay attention to what she has to say!

Trust me when I say I am doing exactly that!

The way I tied to look at it was like asking for directions. The person your asking is a stranger and you would be generally pleasant, polite and nice. You wouldn't talk to them about their feelings and validate them and you wouldn't agree to pay their car bill or go to a concert with them.
If they got knocked over by a cyclist you would help them up, if they had toothache you wouldn't take them to the dentist.

T, this is good stuff and I thank you! It made the whole picture of the neighbor so much clearer to me and I believe I got it now and that’s the first time! I thought I was doing this but I have been to kind and to nice. I am not sure this is a negative since we lived together but I am glad that I now understand.

I don't think it will be important but if there is no other avenue for contact if needed then where does that leave you?

I liked this one as well, T – made me think! I just posted about this and my conclusion is partly due to this sentence – thanks!

Just tell her you were busy. Period. She doesn't need any complicated explanations.

Why? You're way overthinking this. You have a child together so you can't not ever talk to her. Talk to her when you need to. That's all. Stop acting like you're avoiding her or running away from her. Confront it head on.

You're way overthinking things. I guess you didn't read my post. Get VM for emergencies. Again, you share children together. THEY should be your priority.

Thanks, Bond! I didn’t get your first post until later and unfortunately I think I wouldn’t have comprehended it at that time. I feel like I have been acting for the last five months following the rules, holding back my thoughts, working my 180s and so on – now (today) I am starting to understand this new path and how much it simply matches what I would like to do right now. As I understood Sandi at first I was supposed not to answer calls – I get the picture much better now. Children are my priority and they will stay that way but I won’t get the VM. I simply can’t see it solving anything that a text can’t handle.
You confused me yesterday but that was entirely me not understanding the way I am heading so thank you for trying to adjust me!


And then off course you Sandi2 – words don’t cover my gratitude! You simply rock! Thanks a million!

F

[sandi2]

I called her this morning. D6 answered and I talked to her about her schoolday. Then D4 came on and talked and at last W. She had some practical stuff about getting some things here on Friday. I told her that it will be alright and that I won’t be here. This was possibly a mistake since I would not let a friendly neighbor go into my house without me being here – should I correct this and tell her to come at another time?

No, don't go back and change it.

When we use the example of a "friendly neighbor" we are trying to paint a picture of a person you would see as being polite, throwing up a hand to wave when they see you out in the yard. We were trying to give you something you could have to compare your level of friendliness. But as with anything we suggest about doing, do NOT carry to extremes. You have to use your own good judgement in these matters b/c you know her and we don't. It is easy for me to tell you what to do, but it is your life, not mine.

You are being what I see as normal in most of the men here. I loved how you summarized what you were looking for when you first came, and what you are trying to find now. Sometimes I feel like I am shaking a new LBH so he,will really listen to what is being said. But he seldom is ready to "do" what is advised. Like you said about how you are finally understanding why 25 yrs emphasized GAL. Most newly LBS's don't want to get out and GAL........nor do they truly believe it will make a difference. Once they finally begin to do it, then they can see it has a positive effect.

I like what you said about how you would deal with the calls and the TM, etc. I especially liked the way you said she was not always available for your calls when living together. I liked how you trust each other to do what is necessary for the kids. That is one of those areas where you used your own good judgement b/c you knew better than we did.

As I said before, just don't go to such extremes you act goofy.
Your biggest problem was being too much of a "nice guy" you were very emotionally attached. She will notice there's been a change!

[Fartiltre]

Sandi,

9 AM here and W just called!

I will try to give you a picture of the convo but I am shaking at the moment! It is hard remembering all the details and specifics but I hope you can do with this

She started of by asking if I was busy. I didn’t answer but asked what was up. Then she stated that she had some practical’s we needed to discuss.

Then she told me something about D6 getting a new book at school already and then some about her….she just babbled.
(At this point my head started working because I was in doubt if babbling about the children should be stopped or not. Since I like to know what goes on in their lives I just listened and made these small listening-sounds like oh, yes, hmmm and so on)

Then she shifted towards D4 being sad and asking her why her and I can’t live together. She had told D4 that we weren’t very good at living together. I left this uncommented. She talked a little about this and also about D6 not talking about this but listening a lot.
Then shifted towards D4 asking her if I could join them for dinner and she invited me. I left it unanswered but she kept on asking so I told her that I didn’t feel like doing this.

She asked why several times and I kept stating that she made a decision trying to put the decision on her.
I told her that I don’t feel like being friends but I will always be friendly (exact words)

She came on to me about the children’s feelings and I told her that I will always be their loving father and she will always be their loving mother and that we will co-parent the best we can, but this doesn’t mean that we have to be friends or eat dinner together. (I do not remember my exact words but this is close)

She stated that she thought we were supposed to be flexible and I answered that I will always be flexible around the children.

She stated that she thought we would be friends and I told her that I didn’t feel like and that I don’t want to pull the children through another breakup when one of us meets OM or OW. She asked me why this would mean a breakup. I told her that this is how things go normally. She wanted to discuss this further and I believe I stated something like “Well, that how I look at it”

She told me that then she has been lying to the children stating that she and I will be friends and she asked me what to do about this. I told her that she can tell them the truth if she don’t feel like lying.

At some point she gave up and told me “OK – lets go back to the practical’s. D6 has got an invitation to a birthday-party” I got my calendar and put it in and asked her if there where anything else, more practicals.
Then she laughed (as me being ridiculous) – I asked her why she laughed and she stated: Ohh this is just beautiful!! Then I told her to be nice and speak nice or I would hang up the phone.
She was angry at this point in the convo.

She continued in a soft and nice voice from there on!

She asked if we couldn’t talk when shifting place and I told that off course we can and we should if something special happened.

I stated several times that I don’t feel like being friends and that this is her decision.
At some point she stated that she knew I felt like this way. At another point she stated that she thought we would be friends.





Sandi, I am sorry that I can’t explain this better! I was concentrating so much on getting the words right, keeping a soft and pleasant voice and with my feelings on the outside at the same time it is hard remembering the details.
I believe the above is quite accurate but am in doubt about the order and the exact wording.
I didn’t raise my voice once.

I wasn’t prepared well enough and could have done better in choosing my words and phrases. I do believe I did all right but It could have been better. I wish she would have waited a week coming on to me with this then I would have been so much better prepared.

She is going down the track we have discussed and I believe she will be there for some time. She wants to eat the family cake and she has until now believed that this would be possible. IMHO she will try again and next time I will be better prepared. I won’t bring up this subject – but please tell me if I forgot something so my preparation for the next time can be better.

When I am done going through the boundaries, values and rules I hope we can talk more about what to expect. I know I shouldn’t have expectations but I believe you get my drift – I just want to feel prepared for anything that might happen.
I am trying to look at me as WAH and her as LBW now – this gives me a picture of what to expect. Only problem is that all I have read from LBW is from women that have read DB and she hasn’t . Do you understand me?

Sometimes I feel like I am shaking a new LBH so he,will really listen to what is being said. But he seldom is ready to "do" what is advised.

IMO you can shake the earth and it won’t change the LBH. We have to realize this ourselves and only time help us do that….but your shaking will possible make us realize what to do when we are out of our own fog. Your words did that for me and if you haven’t posted initially when I came here I would have been in doubt/fog for a longer time.

Your biggest problem was being too much of a "nice guy" you were very emotionally attached. She will notice there's been a change!

I believe she did this morning.



Took me an hour writing this and I am back to feeling good!

I look forward to your comments on this

F

[Fartiltre]

By the way - the convo lasted around 10 minutes or so.

F

[hotwheelsaust]

Well done F, I can only imagine how hard that must have been to say and act that way.

[Fartiltre]

HWA,

Thanks! The rough part of this one was getting it done right. I feel I could have done so much better in a week and that W took me by surprise.
In fact I feel rather good about doing it but off course my head is spinning now. How did I do? What is she thinking right now? Did I forget something?...and so on - lots of questions and no answers!

This LRT feels so much better than all the friendly business I have been doing for the last five months. I know the path ahead will be rough but right now I just enjoy feeling up.

F

[sandi2]

"She started of by asking if I was busy. I didn’t answer but asked what was up. Then she stated that she had some practical’s we needed to discuss."

You answered that very well.

"Then she told me something about D6 getting a new book at school already and then some about her….she just babbled.
(At this point my head started working because I was in doubt if babbling about the children should be stopped or not. Since I like to know what goes on in their lives I just listened and made these small listening-sounds like oh, yes, hmmm and so on)"

I understand, you are interested in their daily lives. You may need to think of a tactful way to have W stop her babbling and get on with practicals. Like you said, she will do this again. One problem LBH's have is not being prepared with what to say. You need to think of possible things she might surprise you with in the upcoming months, and know ahead how you will handle it. Practice what you will say, if it will help you remember and be able to sound confident.

"Then she shifted towards D4 being sad and asking her why her and I can’t live together. She had told D4 that we weren’t very good at living together. I left this uncommented. She talked a little about this and also about D6 not talking about this but listening a lot.
Then shifted towards D4 asking her if I could join them for dinner and she invited me. I left it unanswered but she kept on asking so I told her that I didn’t feel like doing this."

You handled it well. But when you say, "I don't feel like doing this" or "I don't feel like being friends"........it sounds as if you are acting as if your feelings are hurt and you are reacting. You need to direct it back to her decision. Don't take responsibility for D4's sadness. Yes, you co-parent, but she has to deal with certain things as a single parent b/c she chose to take the children and leave their home. She thinks you will come to her rescue to help her deal with the sad outcome (having to explain to her girls why she doesn't live with daddy any longer). I strongly feel that the parent who made the decision to break up the family should face the unpleasant ordeal of answering questions the little ones ask them.

You were very good not to jump in with a bunch of comfort words for her. I don't believe she should be validated b/c she needs to see this is a result of her choices and you will not make her feel better about something you did not want. See what I mean? I would speak softly and say, "But this is what you wanted. Surely you knew you would have to deal with these issues."

She may storm off, saying something like, "I should have known I could not count on you to be there when I need you!". (or something similar). Be prepared for it and don't react. Say good-bye and let her have her pity party. She thought she could leave you and still have all the benefits of the R. She is not going to like when she finds out it does not work that way.

Good job.

P.S. You will have your part in dealing with the kids issues when they are at your house. But she will probably have the most, as she should. Don't take her guilt or responsibility away from her.

[T1000]

I think you did well especially considering it was the first time you had to wear your LRT hat in a conversation.

These things are hard to write on the board. A couple of minutes conversation can takes ages to remember and write it on here and get it somewhere understandable to a 3rd party.

She wanted cake and you wouldn't give her any.
You managed to stay strong, you got her to change her angry tone and probably got her mind churning.

You will only get better at this.

LRT does feel better than all that friendly business. Makes you feel much stronger.

Imo you had a successful conversation where you positioned yourself in a healthier place.


Proud of you.