No more games- suckerpunch

[adinva]

Idk everything i said was based on your previous post so it seemed to me like it might b helpful but every point you either said you were flat out not going to do it, didnt mean what i thought you wrote, dont know if you will ever b able to do it, dont think its worth doing, or dont think men do it. I have nothing to work with!

So date if you want to date. Perhaps after a few you will be ready. Idk.

[labug]

I agree with Ad, especially that you often write things and then come back and say you didn't mean what you wrote. Maybe we misinterpret a lot or you don't communicate your thoughts clearly, could be a little of both.

You say in several posts that you love your W, that would mean to most people that you're not ready to date. There are 2 people involved in a dating R and while it might be a distraction and an exercise in "moving on" the other person could be hurt by that. I wouldn't want to date someone if I knew the motive was "I'm using you to get over my XW."

You asked for input on how to handle the anniversary and seemed confused when you got varying responses. That's the beauty of input, mulling over choices, getting ideas you may not have thought of, making a decision based on your values.

You posted I hear this kind of introspective advice a lot, and it gets lost on me. I am not sure if I am just not that in touch with my feelings and emotions, or if I am just a "man's man" or why. But, I don't get it. I feel that I already know who I am. I already know where I am going. I have zero plans to change my life completely in regards to where I live, how I work, who I socialize with. What is left to find? What sort of things am I supposed to be looking for? What kind of insight to my self do I need to find? If it has anything to do with self improvement, I get that. I am all in. I want to be a better person, better father, better spouse. I still need to work on it, but that is one thing I have FOUND. I would like some more input on this. I fear that maybe I am missing a large piece of introspect that I just don't get.

If you go back and read some of your posts notice how most of what you think makes you is external stuff-house, job, gorgeous wife, beautiful house...

Those things can all go away very quickly, what you're left with is you and I don't think you know who that is. No one can give you introspection, it's something you have to do on your own, and it's hard work. I've brought up values a few times and who you want to be, who you want to show the world. Your response: As far as who I want to be, I think I was that guy.

Really?

[25yearsmlc]

Ya, I have admitted to myself a LONG time ago that I am scared....that's not a new thing.

As far as GAL and moving forward with my life, I am just at a roadblock. First and foremost, I need to work at my business. I have been catching a LOT of flack for not being as involved as I should be lately, and it is starting to hurt the daily function.

If you need to suck it up at work, do so.

But that is NOT GAL, which I assume you know


My brother and sister have REALLY been picking up the slack. I have been writting off getting involved and making decisions to the fact that I am still upset about my collapsed marriage, and I need to just focus on myself right now. I also realize I have been using that mentality as a crutch for self pity a little as well. I have been selfish in that regard. I need to get back in the game, so to say. The catcher is, once I jump back in and fill my position, my time will be spoken for. We typically go long days, 7 days a week during our season. It doesn't leave much time for self. That has been one of wifes gripes over the years. However, our season only last about 2-3 months....

some good insights. And the one advantage of your w being gone, is that the schedule no longer matters. Accept the upside, however small, that the situation provides. It's part of beginning to look at things better and not always seeing the glass half empty.

To me that is your underlying block to happiness and being as loving as you can be....or at least one big part of it.

I have a good group of friends coming down this weekend. It should be fun, campfires, socializing, bike rides, that sort of thing. However, it is my same old group of friends. I can't help it. I love them and like spending time together, so that makes it even harder for me to branch out and meet new people.

So you think it'd be easier to meet new people if you hated your friends? Stop acting as if having good friends prevents you or hinders you in any way. It's a GIFT!

So Take a class or join something, a club, an organization or even a church or team, WITH one of those friends. Surely one of them is interested in learning or doing something new?

You don't have to go solo. In fact, I'd argue that 90% of GAL ought NOT to be solo.

And here is the thing I struggle with, I already have a great network of friends. I mean everybody can use a new friend, but isn't "moving on" really about meeting new romantic interests?

NO...NO...NO....it's NOT! Goodness gracious no it's not.

LATER on down the road it MIGHT be but it is NOT in the "definition". It means GAL and moving forward in your life with the expecations that your wife won't be in it (outside of parenting) and yet you are happy.

Does that REQUIRE you to be with OW? Interesting...I mean, why can't you be happy for some amount of time, without a woman on your arm?

What's that about?


I mean I meet new people constantly in my line of work, some I connect with others I don't. It is usually very very casual aquintances. That fills a space, but is that what is considered "moving on", just filling my time with new couples or new buddies, or is it really about meeting a new woman?

Neither...didn't I post to you about the GAL things I did? I'm pretty sure I did but you blew it off. Not "just filling my time" OR "meeting a new woman"....wow that is pathetic.

GAL is something you do NOT understand yet SP...truly you must get this concept or DBing will elude you forever.

I GAL the heck out of life...and I maintain some of the things I began then.

I Joined a writer's group, (first time) I auditioned for community theater and the university's theater shows and I soon got roles and that introduced me to fun NEW people. I did stand up comedy,(very therapeutic and FUN) And I get paid to do it now. Not full time or ready to stop my day job, but it feels great and it pays great (by the minute that is...but it's not like you are doing it 40 hours a week).

and I took classes including a pottery class, (very weird but good for me) a Foreign language class and a cooking class. Mostly interesting and always met new people and made at least one new hanging out person who did NOT know my sitch. So relaxing.

I learned to cross country ski, target shoot, deep sea fish, and hunt.

I volunteered at a women's shelter and definitely felt more grateful for MY life.

I coached two girl's teams, I edited a hunting book (really different for me) and I did this for stimulation in a new way AND so I could have some serious fun.

When I joined the Officer's Wives club (first time in 17 years of active duty, plus I myself had been in the service so it always seemed boring to me to join, but I had never gone)...AND there, in Alaska, I made two new, life long friends who saved my sanity...

I worked out and used a tanning booth in the winter, saw a T, looked good if I say so myself.. I found a great church I got A LOT of spiritual help from.

There's more that I did that I am now forgetting but this was about meeting new people and doing/learning new things, improving as a person, being more well rounded, taking up new hobbies and projects...NOT DATING or seeking out OMs... Can you see how different that was?

It was about me being on my own WITHOUT needing my h OR any man in my life, to feel good about myself.

It was about me being really happy with my new/old friends and doing new things, and seeing myself in new ways.

Your old friends know the old you.

Meet some new people with the idea of learning new behaviors and new ways of thinking and seeing things. Meet positive happy centered folks...

Get off the "when do I get a WOMAN?!!" theme.

Honestly SP, it's really needy sounding, and you are nowhere near ready for a mature R at this point. NO OFFENSE, okay?

but, isn't that obvious to you?



I have friends telling me contantly, that I need to start dating.


Really? "Constantly telling you to date"? How odd...a guy not yet divorced and wishing he could reconcile with his wife and start over,

"needs" to start dating...good grief, are these guys all in their twenties? Do they have children?

Are These are the same friends who know the old SP? So that's what they expect from that guy...

WE here, want to encourage you to be the new best YOU that you can be....
and you have real work to do before you can be in a healthy r.

You need to GAL to learn about you. B/C there are behavioral patterns you engage in which PREVENT and hinder your happiness, your attitude towards life and how you treat the woman in your life.

So no, you do NOT NEED to start dating anytime soon. As a woman, I have to say that

none of us would talk like that at this stage...we all "get" that we need to be on our own, "alone" with our family and friends, old AND NEW and discover what and who we want to become.

WE DIG DEEP and you just can't do that while you are on the prowl...I think that's why women seem to heal faster. Most of them sound genuinely happier a few years after their divorce and so do a lot of men...but I think I read some empirical data that says women LBSers tend to reach out more and delay dating
until they have become the best people they can become,
and they seem happier over all, than men who were the LBSers.

No offfense but I think those friends of yours are EITHER not very mature

OR they oversimplify what it'll take for you to be happy again.

They don't want to see you in pain so they suggest you "get back on the horse again!"

Div Remedy discusses this phenomenon a lot. You have to ignore that "Constant" advice. Seriously.

Perhaps you are talking about your w or being lonely so much they don't know what else to say?

Stop the negative thinking and maybe they won't keep harping on it. Just a thought.




To be honest, I am not totally against that. I just don't have a clue in the world who I would date, or if I am even well enough to start looking for that.


Want to guess what I believe??

Perhaps it would help my healing. I don't know.

SIGH...I DON'T SEE HOW it could possibly help you "heal" unless you think you'll suddenly meet MRS RIGHT

in which case, since you are not really truly the new man you want to be, won't you just be here again, with w#2?

I cannot see it "healing" you when you are not ready to have a healthy R, and you are not.

it would be using an OW, imo, and it would not benefit you much. You'll compare her to W and you will STOP the work you are doing on yourself (work I hope you are doing). You will think "no need to now, I have NEW Woman in my life...all is perfect now..."

but it won't be, will it? You will still have your "glass is half empty" problem, and the "like to be right" and the rest of the stuff that got you here.

I would imagine you'd find flaws with the new woman within 6 months...flaws you would share with her...

sorry man but no you are not ready. Ask me in a year. Yeah, a year.

My sister waited a full year FROM the day of the divorce...and the guy who had asked her out "too early" waited til the exact day it had been a year (she had said "call me in a year and we'll see, b/c I am trying to heal"...)

and he did call her on that very day. They've been happily married now 11 years.


.....I am still just spinning on where I am headed, frusturated, scared, still confused about marriage collapsing, just not happy about much.

well aside from how FUN you sound...dating seems to be the last thing you ought to be doing buddy

Perhaps it is my negative mindset, but I am trying to fill every moment with things that are positive as I can be, but still....ugh!

Filling your life with positives is GOOD....Keep doing that. And hang with positive people too. Study them, emulate them in your own individual way.

[swoop]

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate it.

I would like to give you a little breakdown on my past realtionship history. First and foremost, there wasn't much. I dated here and there since highschool, but never EVER connected like I did with wife. My wife was litterally my first true love. I never had a long term relationship, prior to wife. I am not that guy who always has to have a girl on his arm, actually quite the opposite. I spent the majority of my life being very single. Along with that, I never really learned how to heal from a breakup, pretty much because I had very few and they were never SERIOUS relationships in the first place. Maybe that is where some of my confusion about wife dating and moving on comes from. Tonight, she left daughter with a babysitter allll night so she could go out with OM. I am just so much more committed than that. It seems weird to me that she, or I, could even interact with another person in a romantic way this soon after our breakup...or are we even broken up? I don't know. It feels like wife is DONE and GONE. That leaves me to deal with finding my way forward. That is why I asked if maybe I was doing it wrong. I have never called upon these feelings to "move on" before. I am a complete rookie in this arena. I know in my heart that I would like wife back, at least I think I do. I also know, or at least feel, that she isn't coming back. So, I wasn't sure how I needed to progress in kick starting my healing process. I really do feel stuck in many regards. I thought perhaps that would change my mindset of have some pyschological impact on getting me moving towards working on a new life or relationship. It was just a question that I wanted some advice with. I now realize that my gut feelings, are telling me that NO, this isn't a good idea. Therefore, I won't consider it until I feel like it is truly something I wish to pursue.

I am really going to focus on NEW GAL activities. 25, those were some great examples. I do need to grow myself in more ways. I am going to try. I am have been feeling that I need support moreso than anything. I guess I actually need to get distracted with new things to pull my mind away from my sitch. ...I'm on it!

[swoop]

So, I am really struggling with detachment.

This weekend, wife was present at our business, for a bit. She spent time with friends and family, who apparently didn't sugar coat their feelings with her. She was told that they did not aprove of her dating, of her continuing to stay under a roof that I am providing, that she leave daughter with a sitter while she went out to invent her new life or that she was expecting a payoff for her decision to leave the marriage. That is some pretty hard tough talk, and wife was feeling sad about it. She posted some pity party stuff on her Facebook. For the first time, in a long time, I really didn't care all that much. I felt like, "screw her. I hope she finds happiness, but I can't worry about if she does or if she doesn't. I felt almost indifferent about it. Then, this happened....

Wife left our daughter saturday afternoon, for the remainder of the night. She left her with an absolute DRUNK who stays at our business during the summer months. During her time with this "sitter", she was exposed to exxcessive drinking, left to the supervision of an 11 YO. boy and allowed to stay up very late into the night playing. In all reality, daughter probably had a blast. Still, it didn't settle well with me. I was present and perfectly capable of watching her. Wife didn't ask.

The next day, Father's Day, wife asked if she could take daughter to see her grandfather for a going away party. I agreed, but I was also hurt that I was not asked to attend. I really admired this man and feel that we have a great connection. It just hurt being reminded that I was no longer part of the family. As always, my hurt turned to anger, which was increased by the lack or follow through on wifes part. I beleive wife stayed out all night with OM the previous night. So, she did not bring daughter to see me before going to he grandfathers party. I was okay with that. Our agreement was she would have daugther between 1-4. Around 4:30 she texted asking if she could bring daguther to see me 6pm because she was having a good time and wanted to stay longer. I reluctantly agreed. Remember, this is on Father
s Day...MY DAY! So, at almost 7PM wife shows up with daughter. She hadn't eaten, she was dirty, my quality time was going to amount to finding her some dinner and getting her ready for bed, GREAT! Needless to say, I had a hard time being detached. I was mad, I was angry, I was hurt. When wife showed up at the door, ready to go out (mind reading, but more than likely with OM) I felt so taken advantage of and disrespected. Wife didn't say sorry, she didn't say happy fathers day, she didn't say she appreciated my felxibility, nothing. Therefore I had very few words, really biting my tongue because I knew that I had to act as if. Other than being a little stand offish and distant, I think I did okay. I avoided any conflict, at least. Wife texted later saying "oh I forgot, happy Fathers day". I was able to make the best of the evening with the time I had with daughter. Today, I am just hurt thinking about it.

[Demoted26]

Pretty much just summed up EXACTLY how I feel.
I'm sorry for your pain.

[Demoted26]

[/quote]I wish to be a someone that only a fool would leave. I wish to be a husband and a father, under the same roof. I wish to feel whole again......I don't know. I am still just SOOOO confused about HOW I am supposed to act. I don't even know what to do anymore and it's killing me. It's like I am lost, trying to find myself and improve....and I don't know how to do it. [/quote]
You pretty much summed up EXACTLY how I feel with that^^^^.
I'm sorry for your pain. Hugs.

[labug]

Sp, it is a struggle but it gets better. All of life is a struggle, in learning to handle the difficult times we can then really appreciate the other side.

It seems you have these feelings that come up that you don't know what to do with. Conflict between W and "friends", W not doing what you think is the right thing, you being angry with W because of expectations you have. Again, everything is externally focused.

What can you do for you in the midst of all this? You can figure out how to deal with your emotions, specifically your anger. You're in your prime, you'll be in another R sometime, wouldn't you like it to be better? You will need to deal with W for years ahead, wouldn't you like that to be smooth? Your D will challenge you in the coming years, wouldn't you like to have the skills to help her grow into a confident, honest, in control or herself woman?

You have some anger/hurt that you're not getting to here and sometimes the only way to do that is one-on-one. Think about it.

Were you exposed to "ragers" as a child? (someone who expressed anger through rage)

[swoop]

I wish to ask you all, should I not be angry? I don't think my feelings of anger are abnormal or un-warranted. Am I offbase by thinking my emotions are completely normal? I mean, I would think it was really weird if someone else was in the same situation as I am in, and they had no anger about it. Many of my friends and family are actually surprised I am not showing more anger towards wife, so I know I can't be extreme in my feelings. To me, it seems completely reasonable that I have some hurt and anger. How I control that is a different subject however. I do feel like I am managing my feelings better, not letting emotions control me, at least not nearly as much as they used to.

I don't have anything that comes to mind about being exposed to "ragers". I see where you were going with that, LA. I just don't think I have any poor modeling or unresolved issues from my childhood regarding anger or rage. My family and friends have always been able to have heated arguements, don't get me wrong. But, not anywhere near to the point of what I would consider rage....no, not at all.

This whole thing does sadden me, and I am hurting. It seems very unfair that my marriage has crumbled after being in the relationship for 12 years. It seems unfair that we didn't make ANY real effort to work on it. It hurts that wife has seemingly never even looked back or reached out to me in hopes of making it work. It saddens me that wife has already started to build a completely new circle of friends and is alreadying starting to build relationships with OM. It breaks my heart to feel that wife could so easily replace me. Yes, that hurts, and yes that makes me angry. Why? Because here I am with all of my hopes, dreams, plans and expectations about my life just thrown out the window. How can that NOT make someone bitter or resentful? This has been without a doubt, the most difficult, emotional thing I have ever gone through....and I still don't fully understand it.

[jp787]

SP. Thank you for your continued support.

I can relate with you.

I certainly would think feeling anger is very normal, I certainly hope so as I have anger plus about every other emotion and they are heightened now. I did have rage in as a role model growing up, I have had rage myself and it is terrifying.

I see you use the words unfair, bitter and resentful. I think those too are valid emotions and they need addressed, I wish I knew how to address them as I would share, but I don't.

I also understand your confusion and how your thinking may change from day to day, I have that too.

I am sorry that all I can offer is that I can relate. I follow your sitch and you are improving.