WAW / ILUBINILWY / CONFUSED! (Thread III)

[Fartiltre]

Time to start a new thread!

You will find the last one here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2349265&page=10

[Fartiltre]

The last days have been quite hectic. I wrote a little about this in my post about the apologizing but I need to put some words on paper.
Sitch, W, children – it all – have been in my minds almost constantly for the last days! The turmoil is still quite low but I am hurting. When I look at W and especially the children I just feel like expressing my love – I do that to the children, but not W.


DB-COACH
Thursday evening I had a coaching session.
Coach seemed rather disappointed that W had not opened more up to me. I think coach had hopes and perhaps some expectations. We discussed the development and the apologizing for around 45 min and for the first time I didn’t know what to say and neither did coach. She ended up telling me that she still thinks that the goals I have had are the right ones and that in her belief it is now up to time.
I have given this a lot of thoughts since and some part of me wants to withdraw a little but coach told me to stick with the goals so I will do this.

WIFE
W is still very nice and pleasant. She seems a bit edgy, stressed and tired but at the same time she is also upbeat. She has been initiating A LOT more convo´s the last two days but still seems withdrawn in regards of touching. She hugs and does a few walk-by-touches but only few. At some point she almost seems to avoid touching me and this is new. I have had this feeling for about a week a so. If I am standing in a hallway and she has to pass me she does this without touching at all. Writing this it hits my mind that perhaps she is doing this to state something to herself. Perhaps it is not that she dislikes me – perhaps she is afraid of her own doubts. (Properly just my own hopes!)
She still wears the bracelet – yesterday as the only jewelry. She didn’t leave home at all and normally she wouldn’t wear any jewelry at all on such a day.
And a little funny thing: I have been thinking about asking her and the children to eat dinner at the beach but I haven’t! Yesterday she suddenly sais “Wouldn’t it be nice just to make some sandwiches and then go to the beach and eat”

TELLING THE CHILDREN
W has for a long time been very set on telling the children sooner rather than later and she got backed up by the adults in D4s kindergarten. She has mentioned the last weekend as the perfect time and therefore I have been waiting for her to initiate talk about how and when to tell the children.
The subject has not been brought up yet.

S10 will not be home in the next 9 days and W and D6 will take a week in Spain in the start of July and afterwards S10 will be on vacation and return on 19. July. Therefore I do expect (I know I shouldn’t) her to open this talk soon. She has stated that she needs to talk to children before vacation and therefore I think she is set on the weekend around the 22. June. I know about expectations but either way I will set my mind on this. I won’t get disappointed anyhow!
D6 starts new school in the beginning of august and W thinks moving and starting new school in the same two weeks could be overloading her. I agree on this one but don’t know what to do about it.


TALKING ABOUT MOVING
She doesn’t talk that much about it – in fact she only mentions it in short statements.
Yesterday she told me about buying paint for the new place. It came in two sentences out of nowhere and then she changed the subject again. She does this on a regular basis every second or third day. She gives me some info out of the blue and with no interest to me about the house. Then she changes subject. She has been doing this for some weeks now and I don’t know why. Perhaps it is just what hits her mind, perhaps it is to state that she is still moving.
She has also on more than one occasion needed my help to get her work-schedule to work. I still offer all the help that I can (not regarding moving) and I will continue to do so until she moves out.

ARGUING
Some weeks ago we had small argument about this and that concerning her moving. When I stated my opinion and tis was contrary to hers she would get upset but try not to show. This has stopped. She listens in a new way to my opinion.



I could make a long list of hots and colds on her. I do not know which one will be the longest but I do think that she has her doubts and that her mind is set on moving.

MY PATH
Since I love this woman and my children with all I got and to the end of the world I will continue to work on quick R until the children has been informed. I know this is properly against the advice of many in here but keeping W and I together without ripping the hearts from my children’s chests is the top goal and if you do not aim for the stars – you won’t hit any!
I will mind the pressure and try not to pursue too much but I have been doing the same things for quite a while now. I get the patience part but I need to try something new so this means:
I will stay upbeat, have a high PMA, work the 180s and all that will continue unchanged.
I will keep on doing the things coach has told me to and therefore I will keep the texting (pressure) going.
I will increase the touching:
I will hug a little firmer
I will do fewer but longer and more lovingly walk-by-touches
I will – if I get the chance – try to initiate holding hands or some other low-pressure-touch.
I will if she backs off state “Sorry, just old habits taking over!” and give her a big smile!
I will invite her and children to do something new

IF NEGATIVE OUTCOME:
I will mentally try to prepare myself for the talk with the children. First I will have to talk to W about this so I will get a warning. (I am almost 100% sure that she won’t talk to children without me and at the same time sure that she would like for us to talk first. In fact I expect her to ask me about my opinions and what I have been reading about this.)
I won’t initiate R, M or talk to the children.
When she initiates this talk I will state once “I am so sorry that we are here. I would much rather work on the two of us but if this is what’s needed to make you happy I won’t stand in your way!”

IF POSITIVE OUTCOME:
If she opens up I will:
Validate, validate and validate (I sure hope I have gotten better at this!!!)
If she asks what to do I will state that I am in doubts as well and ask her what she thinks.
If given the chance and if she seems open towards suggestions I will tell her:
That I would like for her and the children to stay.
That she can keep her new house if things don’t work out and that we can renovate the house together, and rent it out, if things get better.


Whatever happens I will set new goals and new path and I will keep on working me. I am in doubts about this future path but I think it will reveal itself in the weeks and months to come.
I think the next days or at most two weeks will reveal something and hopefully remove some of my confusion.

[lovethehub]

F, sounds like you have had a lot going on. I think the apology was probably a good thing. At least now she knows you understand and are sorry for your part in what went wrong.

Do not give up hope even if she moves. There are others on here that were separated or divorced for a year or more that are working things out.

Keep working on yourself, you are growing and it is noticeable in your posts!

[Fartiltre]

Hi Kaffe

When is the last time, under normal circumstances, that a thought came to your mind and you immediately acted on it? What were you doing, what was the thought, how did you act on it?

Well, I have been thinking! My head has been spinning and my hair is almost grey at the moment!

I can’t come up with an answer to your questions and that surprises and scares me!

I am not spontaneous!!
Unfortunately that’s my conclusion!
I think too much and act too little!
What a bore!

I get your point so well! I am grateful that you have sent me in this direction!
You’re welcome to advise me further on this subject because that’s something I want to do a lot about!

FT

[Fartiltre]

Today has been pleasant.

I have had some good time to evaluate the weekend and that was needed!

I called W from the office today and told her to hurry home when she picked up the girls. Then I would grab some groceries and we could eat at the beach. She agreed happily!

We have had such a nice time. The evening, the children, sunset, birds singing – one happy world except the sit!! Somebody had even build a heart in shells and stones right at the place where we entered the beach….talk about coincidences!

All pleasant day so far (9 PM) except this one exchange of words. It pinpoints one of my greatest challenges. One thing that I really want to develop and work on: Validating people! Not just W but in general.

The following happened on the beach today:
HOW TO NOT-VALIDATE
W: It would be nice if this backpack had an extra room on the front
M: You can just put things under the straps
W: Yes, but it would be nice if it had an extra room on the front
M: If the straps don’t work the room on the side might do
W: YES, BUT I DO THINK IT WOULD BE NICE IF IT HAD AN EXTRA ROOM ON THE FRONT!!!!
(Me finally getting there! She was almost educating me on validating!)
M saying: I get you W….I see what you mean…you’re right it would be smart!
M thinking: I must be one of the biggest idi0ts on the planet and I need to have somebody smash me in the head with something heavy……I am sure AnotherStander will do the honors!

I need to work on this!!
She felt the backpack was missing something! I argued, I tried to fix it, I did all wrong and the issue was a simple backpack! The right thing to do is so simple....afterwards!

[Fartiltre]

QUESTION / CHANGE IN W

Some days ago I posted about W trying to pick a fight and at the same time starting to wear a bracelet.

I feel change in her but I do not know whether to read it as positive or negative.

She is still all nice and pleasant
She has withdrawn regarding touch
She is more relaxed around me and she is talking a lot more than 2 weeks ago (Primarily about kids, job and so on)
She is trying to pick a fight sometimes
2 weeks ago she was determined to talk to children the past weekend but nothing happened and she has not mentioned it for some days now. No talking about moving either.
She is more edgy around the children and seems a little stressed at times

I feel her being different! At the same time she seems to be withdrawing and coming closer – it is very hard to explain. When she talks she is almost old W but then some signals tells me that she is not!

I read this as doubts and turmoil in her but I surely do not know!

Is there anybody with some experience in these matters that have some kind of picture about WAW-stages.

Do they change attitude or behavior prior to telling kids, moving or other big events?
Should I just think that she is having the same amount of thoughts, turmoil, doubts as I am?

[Fartiltre]

Hi 25

You have asked me about my GALing and the missing proposal and here are my thoughts:

GAL
I feel I have been having a hard time GALing – or at least I think I have! Perhaps I not doing as bad as I have been thinking!
GAL – to me – is about doing things that are meaningful to one self, interacting with other people and spending joyful time.
I am doing that – except I do it mostly alone, with W or with children. I do not hang around with that many people.
When W moves I will be much more alone, but I am – at the moment – quite alright with that. I do not feel lonely when I am alone. I am sure the feeling will show itself and I will put more social activities in my life when time comes simply because I will have the possibility.



FRIENDS / FAMILY
I have never been the big socializer. I have few but very dear friends and very little or close to none family. Parents are dead and my brother and I are not on terms at the moment.
I have an aunt that I speak rarely with to but would like to interact more with.
The friends I have are also business partners and therefore we interact all day long and have done so for 10-15 years. We mix business and pleasure and it works fine.
I live in the countryside by the forest and the sea. It’s nice but also far from people and quite time consuming. House is big and so is the garden. I interact quite a lot with neighbors but not on a very deep level.
I have a hard time trusting people. Trust is a very big matter so me and if people let me down on this one I tend to get extremely disappointed and cut people off. My friends and family knows this.
I am extremely poor at small-talking. I work with sales/marketing and since my work is small-talking I like something a little deeper when I am off.
At normal people sees me as quite likeable, introvert – but fun and nice!

HOBBIES
Since BD I have invested much more time in working the garden. I moved the greenhouse and established kitchengarden. Some alone but a lot with W and children.
I am installing chicken hold over the summer
I like this work and it is something new.

I have picked up running again. I want to start working out but can’t find the time to go to a gym on regular basis.

I have picked up reading. A lot about M/R at the moment but I will stick to this.

I haven’t picked up new hobbies and still it is nature, hunting and fishing for me.

My weekly TV-time is (when weather is good) below one hour. I like to watch a good movie now and then.

I like some computer-games but do not play often. Time is the problem here!


KNOWLEDGE
I haven’t been studying for a long time. I would like to get better at designing webpages and newsletters. At the moment this is the only work-related skill that I miss on a regular basis!

I like history and would like to spend more time reading books and magazines in this area.


TIME
I work 45 min. drive away and when I have to drop off 2-3 children it is an hour. This means I leave home around 7AM and returns normally around 5PM. D4 and D6 are put to bed around 8PM so with cooking and housework there’s not a lot of time. I have cut my hours quite a lot since BD and want to keep it this way. I work at home when children’s sleeps but otherwise my computer is off and I do not answer my phone (180!)
I lived in the city where I work when I met W and therefore my network is still there. I know very few people in the city nearby (15 min drive) and will have to do something about this. W will move to this city and D4 and D6 will attend school there as well.
At the moment I feel my hours are well spent but when W moves I will get a little more time for myself. When children are not with me I will have some work to do preparing for them to come but otherwise I will get more time to myself. I haven’t yet decided what to do with this but I will.
I haven’t been sitting alone since BD and at the moment I would like to try that. I like time for my self and have always done that. Running, fishing and hunting also shows that – but perhaps I should take up some social sport. It will be difficult due to the fact that every second week my time is spoken for.


SO THE LIST I COULD WORK IS HERE:
- Establish a better work-environment at home and work from home office some days to save time.
- Work on my efficiency and planning and thereby free some time
- Invite the guys from the poker-game last weekend to my home
- Hit the bar-scenes with some friends once in a while.
- Invite aunt to coffee
- Take a class/course in Joomla or Wordpress. This will have to be online and it is only for the knowledge.
- Interact more at children’s kindergarten and school when dropping off/picking up
- Take a shooting class
- Take classes in flyfishing

The top six I will do when she moves – perhaps sooner – the rest must wait!

I do not know if this answers your question but I do hope so.



MISSING PROPOSAL

Btw, why didn't you ever marry her? I have a hard time believing a woman in love with a man, who has two of his kids, would not feel at least slighted by not getting a proposal.
What's up with that? I'm curious.\

I haven’t got an answer that I am satisfied with. I simply don’t know the answer to this one. I have been thinking about doing this for several years but I haven’t.
Not proposing is properly due to my own D and the divorces around me! If I lived unmarried it wouldn’t happen to me (again). I have been afraid of the hurt and I have some kind of trust issue.
– that’s my best guess at the moment and unfortunately I can easily see the signals this sends.
I know this isn’t a clear answer but it is honest and the closest I can get at the moment.



25, this is the best I have got for you at the moment and I won’t let it hang around there anymore. I hope you will comment on this and I truly hope that you will continue to advise me! I feel so damn good about the apology and A LOT of this feeling is due to you – thanks!
At the same time I hope you will come back on the nurturing the spark you wrote about last week.

[Fartiltre]

PERHAPS THE REASON FOR HER WITHDRAWAL

W was up early this morning (530AM) to get to work.
I was awake and got up as well. When I got downstairs the coffee was ready and she was doing the children’s lunchboxes. I thanked for the coffee and told her I had plenty of time to do the boxes and the reason for her withdrawal reviled itself.

W: Have you thought more about it?
M: About what?
W: About things
M: About which things. Please be a little more specific?
W: About when to tell children
M: Yes, I have. I think about it a lot? I have talked to two psychologists and a doctor about it and I have been trieg to get a hold of children’s council about a hundred times.
W: What did they say?
M: One agreed with you and two with me
W: Ok, then I will stop thinking about it and just realize that it will be late but we will have to talk to them sooner or later!
M: I am sorry if I have done something wrong in this.
W: Don’t be – I just think it is wrong and dangerous.

The convo was slow and with a lot of breaks. No raised voices. I didn’t give in to this since I still believe telling the children late is the best. I tried to validate when given the chance but it is hard.

She told me two weeks ago that she would talk to a family-therapist and I asked about this. She haven’t done this. By asking I applied guilt but I had to – sorry!
She seemed sad and annoyed during the convo.

I guess this could be the reason for the change in her acting!
After the convo she went upstairs to dress and came down relaxed and talking about work and picking up the children. Then she left!

She initiated goodbye-hugging. She seems determined and withdrawn!

I will stay on the path!

[Fartiltre]

QUESTION / ADVICE ON INITIATIVE

I have been thinking about this morning’s events (previous post) and I conclude that W has been expecting me to take the initiative to talking further about children since the meeting at kindergarten almost two weeks ago
I do not know what to do!

I think she has been missing some kind of initiative from me in our M but at the same time I do not want to initiate talks about her moving out – I do not want to help her on this one.
I haven’t taken one initiative towards D/moving since BD, I do not initiate convos concerning these subjects but perhaps I should!

It would be the easiest thing in the world to start this talk but do I want to do that or should I make her pursue the talk for a little longer?

I could land this in between and ask her WHAT (not when) she wants to tell the children.

ADVICE?

[Fartiltre]

MORE TO ADD ON W CHANGING

I have talked to W on the phone twice today and she is talking a lot - still only about children's, job and day-to-day stuff. She sounds upbeat and happy as usual but with a twist. She seems more sincere in some odd way.

I wouldn’t have expected this (if I had any expectations ) because of our convo this morning. I would have expected her to be silent, annoyed and short-worded.
I do not want to read anything in to this at the moment and at the same time I wouldn’t know what to read in to it.

It seems like this talking-more and touching-less is here to stay – for the moment