I really like the "hook" one. I am really good at this list, providing that I know a discussion is coming and mentally can prepare for it. Where I struggle is when something comes up that pushes my buttons, my heart rate climbs, and the list is out the window. I have been carrying a print out from Fireproof Your Marriage website that is a one pager with similar pointers on it, but need to use it when my back is really up against the wall, not just for planned discussions.
Great stuff T.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
I really like the "hook" one. I am really good at this list, providing that I know a discussion is coming and mentally can prepare for it. Where I struggle is when something comes up that pushes my buttons, my heart rate climbs, and the list is out the window.
Hello Charlie Brown, nice to meet you
I'm a good listener I think, but am not good at this verbal validating stuff. I cannot tell you how many times I've prepared for a discussion, a few times I went as far as writing out a list for myself, and then once the talk starts, everything I thought of saying is blown out of my mind. I'm planning to do that uh huh stuff more when my mind goes blank!
My H told me that if he knows he is going to have a discussion, he tries to think of every conceivable response. Is that sort of what you do?
Linda
Me 65, Ex 64 M 38 y 2 adult S, 4 G-Kids MLC 11/07 BD 12/09 D 3/14 Dating nice guy 7/14 Engaged to nice guy 12/17
Hi Linda. I probably do that, but moreso, I read through my sheet on suggestions for listening that I printed off from the Fireproof site. And, when we start the discussion, I try to really focus in on it. This is much better when:
1. I have had a chance to mentally prepare for the subject. 2. I stay calm, no matter what is being thrown at me. 3. I/we are both sober. A few drinks tends to function like truth serum and the listening stuff is thrown out in favor of more honest and direct responses.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
One thing I have learned is that "rehearsing" (which I did and still do) is not helpful, to the dicussion at hand, or to my PMA...with MLC'ers there is just no way to "prepare" it seems.
It took me quite a while to get this.
MWD and others talk of having a "beginner's mind", which is hard to do since we were trained by years of M how our spouses are likely to respond, etc. But the "beginner's mind" is helpful, less rehearsing the better I have found.
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thanks for your insights, gentlemen. It IS hard to prepare to have a rational discussion with a temporarily crazy person. I didn't do a really good job of detaching from the craziness this weekend, and found myself believing all my H's statements. Bad idea. But now I can see now that it was just the same sort of crazy statements as usual, no better, no worse. If I don't agree with one of his ideas, I just need to wait because H will probably contradict himself tomorrow LOL! I'll go read that chapter in DB on having a beginner's mind again.
CB, is your W still at home after thinking she wants to move 4 hours away? Does she have an OP?
My W never left. She stated originally that she wanted to move and wasn't sure it was with me. She was in MLC and now is stating that she isn't sure she really meant that. I know this is good news and I am in a much better sitch than most of you, but I have been on a roller-coaster since she said this.
You will find my latest sitch at "Still Struggling and Need Help #4". She never had OM, but she did/has an online b-list celebrity obsession that is still there and he is in the town she wanted/wants us to move to. No PA, not really EA as far as I know except a limited amount of PMing when she was in his town. As far as I know...
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
I've read your threads, starting with the SSM ones, Charlie Brown, sorry you've had to go thru all that early struggle, and now THIS! I listened to a psychologist speaking on the radio not long ao, who said that he thinks one of the best predictors of whether a person will be able to face his or her changing body and life expectations at mid life, or go into a full blown crisis including EAs and/or PAs, is the fact of whether or not he or she had 2 or 3 relationships during their teen years. He said that falling in love and having one's heart broken during this formative period is important to the development of a strong, healthy sexual identity. And if the person had an unresolved problem back then, he or she will have to live thru it and face it later in life.
Maybe your poor W had some kind of problem or experience during her formative years that turned her off to sex in general, and now to this obsession with the tattooed wonder?
No matter if it is an obsession, an EA or a PA, it all hurts!
No matter if it is an obsession, an EA or a PA, it all hurts!
That sure is a big truth.
If I do my math right... I would have to say that I let the A's (which I'm positive were primarily, if not only, EAs; including female and gay friend EAs) affect me for about 2.5 years. During that time, some of them ended, but even those ones still bothered me.
I finally "got over" it. It appears that pretty much every A has ended now, as far as I know. stbx might still be (is) in contact with them to some degree, but she's not obsessing over them any more. They truly appear to be "just friends" now. The fact that she is actively dating (in a more "traditional" sense) now, truly does not bother me. I can't say that it's not entirely because I have moved on, although that certainly has some bearing on things. It's just that an A is IMHO, "ugly".
So as Linda mentions, As hurt.
That said, your W's interest (obsession) with the ta-boy life and family (his pregnant W) could be along the same realms of her reading those fantasy books or people who watch those reality TV shows.
Eventually it will not bother you like it does. Try to keep focused on more important things. It really does seem like progress is being made and your focus on your W's fantasy will continue to drive you crazy.
...or go into a full blown crisis including EAs and/or PAs, is the fact of whether or not he or she had 2 or 3 relationships during their teen years. He said that falling in love and having one's heart broken during this formative period is important to the development of a strong, healthy sexual identity. And if the person had an unresolved problem back then, he or she will have to live thru it and face it later in life.
I think the part bolded above is somewhat subjective, but I do think there is something to that.
My own stbx's experience is, as far as I know, that she had one "primary" R through her teen years. At one point, she actually cheated on this guy with his best friend, during that R and she claimed to have been remorseful about it. I think it was the same guy who she eventually got back together with, and he ended up with a disabling neck injury and she stuck with him for a while before eventually moving on from him.
So on point would be that stbx likely has no strong basis for her own R development that isn't either untrustworthy or otherwise somehow co-dependent in some way.
