Should I initiate R talk?

[Arsene]

Thanks Adinva and SA,

I didn't comment on the itemization of the money because I know that she did spent the bulk of it on necessities and although I still think that she's used much more than she should have, I didn't see the point of raising the issue just to have her run on the defensive.

This is part of my 180s. To stop criticizing all the time.

I agree with the response you suggest and I can honestly say that.

I have thought about her text and I can see how she might see it that way. I'm wondering if I need to justify my purchases to her or if this would simply launch us into an argument. In any event, this is what I plan to send to her.



"Hi W,

Thanks for your message. I can assure you that I never expected a breakdown of your expenses as I always trusted you would do what is best.

I can now see how the attempt at humor in my comment was offensive to you and I am sorry about that. It was never meant that way.

With regards to the guitar, before leaving, I’d planned to buy a guitar if I found one and I didn’t see the need to change my plan because our situation had changed.

I bought the motorcycle so you could have the car to allow both of us to be more independent. The reason why I got this particular one is to help me move on by going on motorcycle trips again. I was also thinking about possibly trying to write that proposal for a motorcycle show, as we’d discussed in the past.

Looking at the situation now, I can see how it might look selfish and thoughtless of me to do so but I did these things to help me move on and finally give you the space and time you so desire at the moment.

Thanks for expressing the way you feel about this. I hope you have a nice day.

Take care"

How does this sound? I hope I can have an answer soon because W is spending the afternoon with D8 and I'll see her tonight. I'd hope to have answered before meeting her.

SA, I need time to reflect on your comments re" anger and MLC. I'll comment on this as soon as I can.

Thanks again for being here.

[Arsene]

Advina,

I just thought about this a bit more and I think you are right. It was passive aggressive behaviour on my part. I think I've used that all my life to make people feel guilty about things. It's another one of the 180s I'm trying to take. The problem is, I don't always catch myself at it. It's something I'm planning to talk about in C this week (my 1st session).

Should I address this in my reply? Now that would really validate how she felt. She was totally right. I've always used humour that way. I really have to turn this around.

I could add something like: "I never meant it consciously but I think that you are right and that this might be part of the behaviour I need to (and will) work on."

Thank you so much. This is a breakthrough for me. I never noticed before how I did this.

[adinva]

I think your answer is quite good. I'd like to see you put yourself in her shoes more, without pride and ego coloring your thoughts. Then you may be able to answer your own questions.

You can learn a ton from this website even when no one's writing to you.

[Arsene]

Yes Adinva, Thanks. I have been reading a lot and learning a lot from other's threads as well as from the resources. It's just that some lessons are harder to swallow than others.

In my present situation, in this foreign city, I do miss the interaction and getting direct input on things. As I said before, my circle of friends around here is very limited and I fear I'm already getting to the saturation point with some of them.

Thanks for being here.

[adinva]

Make more friends here. Find others with similar sitches that you can relate to and comment there, and they'll come comment for you. It used to make my day when I saw a new comment on my thread!

Your goal should be to wean yourself from direct support (should I say this? what does it mean that she did that?) and take the larger lessons you learn here to begin answering your own questions and standing on your own two feet.

Basically, GAL. Work on your own issues. Detach so her emotions are hers and yours are yours. Become an even better you. Most people get to this website after their marriages are beyond the point of no return. You only control yourself. DB can help you save yourself and it turns out that's more important than saving your M. No one thinks so when they first get here, but it's true.

[Arsene]

Thanks Adinva. Point taken. I hope to get there soon. I'm looking for a way right now to get my hands on DB and DR as well as a few other books that have been mentioned on this site.

I'm also starting C tomorrow and I'm looking forward to the experience.

I have been commenting on other sitches where I can and all of this reading is helpful as well.

It's just that I feel like I spent my life being the pillar, the one to be relied upon and suddenly, the ground has been taken from under my feet. The things I considered the most stable in my life are fading before my eyes and instead of feeling determination and strength, I've now got uncertainty and fear dictating my every move. I know I have to get over all of this and figure out who I am. In there lie the answers to my questions.

Although I realise that just journaling on this thread is very therapeutic, I also get excited when I see someone writing in my thread. It gives me the sense that someone is there, that I'm not going mad, talking to myself.

Thanks for reading me. I hope I get a chance to be where you are soon. I started reading your thread and you seemed to be so strong from the beginning.

[Arsene]

For me, I recognize my anger, think about why I'm angry, and work it out for myself. I accept what is, is. I can only control me. I try to handle it in a way so that I personally have no regrets. Yes, forgiveness does enter into it, but you need to deal with it yourself before you can forgive.

This is something to work on. Thanks.

I see by your sig line that you believe your W has been in MLC for a couple of years? What makes you think that? If she is in MLC please protect your finances because they are notorious spenders. Since your W has left you and you have primary custody of your D, you would be wise to separate your finances so your W does not have free access. You are enabling her new life. She needs to find out what life would be like not to have Arsene in it. A person will not miss what is always there.

I think so because it's felt like a two year PMS. It started with EA which I discovered without looking for it (I never would have expected that of her and I always trusted her implicitly). Over the last few years, she's often acted so out of character, so unlike the person she used to be and then she would become herself again. Lots of indecision, on big issues but also on very unimportant issues. Changing her mind constantly. This behaviour was more frequent in the beginning but when we relocated to another country last year, it became less frequent. It basically went from every two or three days lasting 2-3 days to eventually being only a few times a months for 12-24 hours.

Up to a few months ago when she would tell me:"Thanks for sticking with me" and when she decided to move back to her country where we (her and i) would try our hand at playing music for a living (for me it was a scary move because I always like to play it safe - but I agreed anyways and was getting excited about it)I thought that we were finally coming out of the tunnel and then, 2 weeks after my departure (Trip to my own country with D8). She emailed me to tell me she wanted to separate.

She's is also turning towards spirituality (but superficially) and altruism (she wants to start a school for less fortunate people) and I read somewhere that Female MLC often included these.

And of course, her spending habits have greatly increased. Over the last few years, she often talked about wanting to die before she gets too old and loses her mobility. She has also been worried about her appearance (even though I always told her I thought she was hot)and started using hair fall tonic and wrinkle cream about 2 1/2 years ago.


Does this sound like MLC?

BTW, my finances are safe. other than the money left in her account for the house, everything else is either gone or divided.

You sound like a good and caring man. DBing is many times counter intuitive to what you think you should do. It's hard to get the concepts down and detach. Once you do, you'll find this gets much easier.

Thanks SA, I really hope it does get easier.

You need to read DR as soon as you can. I know getting the book is difficult for you. Remember not to let your W know you're on this site as many WAS would view it as pressure to get them back. It's for you only. Also, when you get the book remember to keep it out of her sight. Otherwise, she'll think all your changes are just tactics.

I'm working on finding a way to get the books right now and no, I will not show her.

Make those changes for you because you want to become a better you.

Yes, I really do think it is important for me. No matter what, I don't want to be the person I've become over the years. I long to be a better man.

Over on the MLC board at the top is a chapter on MLC out of the DR book. Have you read it? It is the 4th thread down from the top. It may help you determine if W is in MLC or not.

I'll have another look. Thanks for being here. I really appreciate it.

[Arsene]

Well, I've been out all day, looking for work and getting some things settled. I also didn't want to be around because W wanted to spend time with D8 this afternoon so i just went to a park and started reading the only English self-help book I could find in the local book store. It's actually bang on though. It's called US, by Lisa OZ. It's about making lasting changes to ourselves and our relationships in general.

Towards the end of the afternoon, I finally decided to go ahead with the answer above with a slight change. I rehashed the whole answer over and over and decided to leave my justifications for buying the guitar and the bike. One of the reasons for this is that otherwise, I felt like I was just being a pushover. She sends a text that criticize me and I agree with everything she says, two days after she goes out with OM, displaying the sensitivity of an icicle? Justifying my purchases, in a small way allows me to stand my ground somehow.

Nonetheless, as the time to get back approached, I felt anxiety and started getting the shakes and a heavy heart. I was not looking forward to seeing her, considering the way things were the last time I had seen her. I was afraid I would act "as if" and overdo it or simply that I would end up showing how I really felt.

In the end, things went well and I behaved with what I might call "just the right amount of poise". I had brought home some food in case D8 hadn't been fed and casually invited W to join us. It turned out D8 had eaten but W hadn't and she accepted, but seemed reluctant. I then told her she didn't have to so she said that if she didn't have to she wouldn't.(?)I just said "OK" and left it at that.

I then proceed to talk to D8 about her day, and made sure she'd done her homework and put her things away. W and I talked about a few things Non-R related and I always kept it short and left the room when the discussion was/seemed done.

I kept myself busy doing stuff around the house that needed doing and when the time came for D8 to go to bed, I asked W if she'd tell her a story, which she agreed to do. I then left D8 and W in the room and went to play my guitar in the living room (Usually, I would stay in the bedroom during W's story time).

When D8 was sleeping, W came out and asked me if i had received her text. I said I had and that I had replied. I thanked her for sharing with me and I asked her to just read my reply.

Then I got up to signify that she should go and she let herself out (I'd had a key of the front gate done for her to avoid a repeat of 2 nights before).

During the whole time, I think I displayed courtesy, kindness, a bit of humour (nothing passive aggressive) and most importantly, "detachment".

I feel much better and I hope I can keep this up.

[roughenough]

Hi Arsene- I’ve been following your sitch. Adinva has given some very solid input. She’s been very helpful for me as well. I also have an 8 year old. I know there’s never a good age to subject a child to this bs. I don’t know about you but our 8 year old is really struggling with all this. How’s your D handling it? It just breaks my heart.

Adinva talks about GAL, it’s so important. I exercise, hang out with friends and family however the second I have some down time, my mind automatically starts thinking about my sitch, it’s like it’s always with me and it’s so hard to shake it, how about you?

I am just so glad I found this site. I sometimes think about what I would be like if I hadn’t found DB. I know I would be in a worse spot, if that’s possible

In a way, I would probably be lost, I would be saying all the wrong things, My odds towards R would be reduced, I would have a harder time working on me, the list goes on. Anyway, just wanted to see how you’re doing and let you know that it seems like you’re doing a great job at this.

Rough

[Arsene]

Thanks for your words Roughenough,

I sure don't feel like I'm doing a great job most of the time. Like you, my sitch seems to ambush me every so often, when I least expect it, when I'm trying to GAL, out of no where, I feel my stomach tighten and physical pain in my heart and then I get on the edge of tears, and can't focus on what I was doing anymore. Sometimes, if I'm out, i look for a public toilet and lock myself in just to let it out. Sometimes it feels better, other times, the pain stays. I also have a hard time acting "as if" but I guess this is work in progress.

This site is also saving my butt. The whole "counter-intuitive" thing is just that. Counter-intuitive. Tough stuff to maintain but every day I come here and read sitches and advice and remind myself what I have to do. Now i just need to get myself a copy of DB/DR.

I'm sorry to hear about your D8. Is she with you or with your S? Mine is with me and she seems ok, when W is not around. We have a good old time and this is bringing us closer than we ever were. I'm always respectful of W and try to put on a brave face but D8's no fool and often tell me stuff like:

Her - Are you thinking about mommy?
Me - Why do you ask?
Her - You look sad.

When she asks, or when she feels sad and talks about her mom, I tell her to be strong and to be patient. I tell her that her mom needs some time to herself right now because she needs to work some things out. I also tell her that I too, miss her very much and that I love her very much.

She also keeps a good eye on me. Sometimes, when she senses that there is a situation where I might lose it (not R related) she'd tell me that maybe I should go do my meditation (something I started 2 months ago to 180 my anger issues).

The problem is when W is around, suddenly D8 starts acting overly happy, talks non-stop, talks "baby-talk" and stops listening to what I say. She tends to be more rambunctious.

She sometimes has nightmares, usually about her mom leaving her forever and although this has stopped since I've been back in the country, she used to have twitches where she'd scratch her arms uncontrollably or hit herself when she felt upset. A few of her comments also show that she sometimes feels guilty for this and I often reassure her that this has nothing to do with her and that her mom and I just need a bit of time alone.

I'm really thankful for Avinda's support. She's been an angel through the last tough few days and her advice was invaluable.

Thanks for dropping by Roughenough. It's great to be able to share this burden with someone who understand what I'm going through. I'll look in on you soon.

Cheers!