Should I initiate R talk?

[MrBond]

"i insisted that W got a boarding room in the nieghborhood so she can come around anytime she can. I suggested she come around and have breakfast with D8 once in a while or even come by in the evening for story time before bed."

Wrong call. You don't make those arrangements for her. You tell her when and where she can meet your daughter and it's up to your W to take the initiative to meet those times. Don't 'insist' that she have any sort of living conditions close to you. That's her issue to deal with. If you continue doing that, your W is going to accuse you of 'controlling' her life. It happens all the time.

"At that point, I will absolutely get C for D8."

NO! The point for you to get a C for your D8 is NOW. Your W is out of the picture. That's alot for an 8 year old to process. And right now you're not processing things correctly to begin with. Put your D's welfare first. Talk to someone about her so that she doesn't become a casualty in this whole mess.

"We all lose but my little girl lost the most and she's part of the reason I'm not giving up on W. "

Forget about your W right now. If a mother can walk away from her child, there is absolutely NOTHING that you say that will convince her to stay. Just concentrate on your D8. Right now you must show her the love of two parents.

[Denver_2010]

"i insisted that W got a boarding room in the nieghborhood so she can come around anytime she can. I suggested she come around and have breakfast with D8 once in a while or even come by in the evening for story time before bed."

Wrong call. You don't make those arrangements for her. You tell her when and where she can meet your daughter and it's up to your W to take the initiative to meet those times. Don't 'insist' that she have any sort of living conditions close to you. That's her issue to deal with. If you continue doing that, your W is going to accuse you of 'controlling' her life. It happens all the time.

I agree with Bond 100% here. I see some controlling behaviors here Arsene. Keep 'insisting' that your W do this your way and you will see her move farther and farther away from you and your M. Asking to set 'boundaries' for the S is the same thing. You can talk to her about how she envisions the S, but you are in no position to demand or insist on anything. She obviously wants some space and maybe some freedom for herself. You are going to have to let her have it.

Denver

[~ kd ~]

Arsene, you are getting great support so I've been backing off and letting you absorb the advice you are getting.

On this thing about where you want your W to live, I agree with what has been said.

I do want to be clear that, you can still manage the cultural dominant/submissive nature of your W's home country (and ultimately your peers at this time) and still not "force" her or demand she do this or that.

Study the men from the area and how they relate to women and how the women respond. You have known your W long enough to get some measure of where the "balance" might be for her, if she really is pining for her roots and culture.

[Arsene]

So now I'm out of a plan. I won't be initiating R talks or making any demands but I feel that after over a week in total darkness (except for a short text from her asking me when i thought I'd come back so she can make plans - to which I replied i didn't know yet, as courteously as possible) I need to do something.
I'm bound to bump into her as she is with D8 now so how do I behave? How do I answer her questions? (if any) In the past she has asked me a lot about my personal growth. If she does, should i tell her what i'm doing or should i just be vague. I know I should tell her about my 180s but what if she asks?

Should stay "dim" when she's around or become the friendly person I had been.
I've replayed a few of our last discussions and at one point i thought she got angry at me for prying into her life, or that she felt guilty (I told her that I didn't think we should bring OM/OW around D8 - at this time I'm not sure there is really an OM and there is not going to be an OW). At the time, her mood changed and she turned away, then I told her calmly, not to worry if there was someone else, that we were no longer together and that it wasn't like cheating. To this she answered angrily that she understood how things were.
I thought then that it was a sure sign that she was seeing someone but now, i'm wondering if she got angry because she thought I was the one with OP in the picture.
Now, after nearly a week of NC (which is a total 180 for me)I just wonder how to come back to earth. Should i dispel her fears if any? Or should I just stay mysterious and kind?
Any thoughts appreciated. I'm going back tomorrow and would like a bit of an idea for my road map.

Thanks all.

[Arsene]

I know I should tell her about my 180s but what if she asks?

This should read :I know I shouldn't tell her about my 180s but what if she asks?

[MrBond]

"So now I'm out of a plan."

No your plan is to not engage your W.

"I need to do something."

You are. You're giving her the space she asked for. Start looking up C for your D.

"I told her calmly, not to worry if there was someone else, that we were no longer together and that it wasn't like cheating. "

BS. It is cheating plain and simple. Don't EVER belittle this fact. It will come back to bite you in the butt. You don't want an OM in the picture to confuse your W more.

"but now, i'm wondering if she got angry because she thought I was the one with OP in the picture."

You're mindreading. You can't predict what your W is feeling or thinking so don't even try. Just do what you can for you and your D.

"Should i dispel her fears if any?

No.

Or should I just stay mysterious and kind?"

No. Just be yourself and don't include her in your plans. Imagine her like a neighbor or casual acquaintance.

[Arsene]

Ok MrBond but are you saying I should just ignore her questions? Or lie about where I've been(and with whom?). The thing is we are separated but so far, we have been communicating. As i said earlier, she does ask a lot of Qs about my growth and the work I've been putting in. How do you answer a direct question without lying? I mean if a neighbor asks a question, I'll either answer it honestly, be vague or simply tell them to mind their own business. I won't just walk away and ignore it.

With regards to the OM thing being OK, you are right. It isn't. I guess I was trying to validate instead of judge and this came out. When i saw her turn away (perhaps in shame or in sadness) I just had to say something and this came out (mental note: count to 10 before saying anything to W on tricky issues). I'm still working on detaching. That's part of why i came in NC for a few days.

So after a week apart with NC, I should just get there and say:"Hi there! Hope everything went well. How's D8 doing? Anything I should know? Ok Bye"

[Arsene]

Point taken Kd,

The thing is, W always hated the way men behave towards women in her culture and that's a reason why she was still unmarried at 30, when I met her. Most women here marry between 19 and 25 and many of them to men chosen by their parents. W wasn't from that upbringing and always had difficulty getting on with local men. She did have relationships but soon tired of the feeling of being a mere possession.

Denver and Mrbond, you guys are absolutely correct. I have to stop making these demands. I'm in no position to demand anything and besides, it does seem like I'm trying to control her. All I want is for D8 to still have a R with her mom and to make it as easy as possible for this to happen but I guess if W feels pressured into it, she won't be coming around now, will she?

Thanks for keeping me on my toes.

MrBond, don't worry. I'm looking into C for D8 as well.

Ok MrBond but are you saying I should just ignore her questions? Or lie about where I've been(and with whom?). The thing is we are separated but so far, we have been communicating. As i said earlier, she does ask a lot of Qs about my growth and the work I've been putting in. How do you answer a direct question without lying? I mean if a neighbor asks a question, I'll either answer it honestly, be vague or simply tell them to mind their own business. I won't just walk away and ignore it.

With regards to the OM thing being OK, you are right. It isn't. I guess I was trying to validate instead of judge and this came out. When i saw her turn away (perhaps in shame or in sadness) I just had to say something and this came out (mental note: count to 10 before saying anything to W on tricky issues). I'm still working on detaching. That's part of why i came in NC for a few days.

So after a week apart with NC, I should just get there and say:"Hi there! Hope everything went well. How's D8 doing? Anything I should know? Ok Bye"

I know you might have said all that before but I'd still like different perspectives on coming out of NC.

MrBond, I hear what you're saying but still, specifically, how should I answer these Qs?

[Arsene]

I'd welcome anybody's take on the above, especially that I'll be going back in about 12 hours, Thanks

[lillystillinlove]

Just finished reading your thread

I was going down this track too and I'm happy for all the folks that gave me a new perspective and helped me pull back from that cliff just a few days ago. From everything I'm hearing, what I tell myself is information gathering and setting up rules for a separation, so I have a sense of solid ground under my feet can be see as (and probably is,okay, okay, IS) controlling behavior.

I'm trying to stop that.

I'm new to all of this so I don't have any answers for you on how to reply to your Ws questions. I know you read my thread and found good advice in there.

MrBond said here to treat your W like a casual acquaintance and you replied with 3 options. Maybe you answered your own question. It's nice she wants to know but it's really none of her business right now. Kind of like a neighbor asking you those questions, either you are vague in you answer or you don't answer at all, change the subject, A LA "how about those mets!".

My 2 cents, for the vets out there please correct me if I'm wrong.