Should I initiate R talk?

[Arsene]

Hi everyone,

I started a new thread for this one but feel free to check out my other thread and my sitch.

Now, I've been dark for 5 days, to try to sort our how I feel about all of this and I think I want to initiate R talks with W upon my return from darkness.

The reason for this is that since the separation (which was announced via email while I was on a 2 month holiday back home with D8) we haven't talked about what we were doing and why. When I got back (7 days ago), I told W I wanted to talk about it and she first asked me if it was necessary. She then said that she was ready to talk. This scared me and we ended up avoiding it.

Now what I want to ask her is if this is a Healing Separation, a trial separation or just a preparation for Divorce.

I'd like to recommend we structure this separation and make it a Healing Separation.

http://www.noeticus.org/uploads/Handout-Healing_Separation_Explanation.pdf

As far as I understand this is a working separation in which both partners invest in personal growth to help them build a different healthier relationship.

I also want to give her the above handout so she can have a good idea of what I'm asking for.

Then i want to set some boundaries for that separation.

I want to tell her that this separation should be for 6 months initially and that this can be renegotiated at any time.

I want to set some weekly scheduled time we can spend together as Quality Time and as Family time.

I'm not going to approach the sexual issue at this time. I figure if it comes up we'll see.

I want to tell her that I'm going to seek counseling and will suggest she does as well and perhaps even couple counseling.

I want to tell her that I will not be seeking a relationship with others and will remain sexually and emotionally monogamous.

I will outline our living arrangements which are that me and D8 will live in the house while she lives in a boarding house and she has full visiting rights.

Now, should i do this? If yes, how should i approach it? Should i just send an email with the handout attached and wait to see what she says? Should i bring it up in conversation?
If no, why not? how can I get a sense of what's going on, of what I'm working with?

It's just that i feel powerless right now and i would like to feel like there is understandable structure to all of this.

Thanks for your advice

[MrBond]

Talking to her about the R is a bad idea. I understand you need to have some kind of clue about why or what she's doing, but you're asking a blind person why they're blind. From what you've written so far, she doesn't even know.

Instead, I would discuss your D. Who has primary custody? What's her schedule? Are you basically taking care of her? Then you regulate the days and times that she can see her based on YOUR schedule.

Meanwhile you continue to grow and keep things light. Remember it's on her head, not yours. Again, don't have a R talk. It's not going to do anyone any good and I can see in this case, it would push her away.

[Denver_2010]

Just something that I wanted to note here as a reminder because it is so true. Nothing positive can happen until negative emotions disappear. Then nothing further can happen unless friendship developed. Only then can romance and recommitment occur. As those things happen, growth of self should be happening and most likely is happening. As people come out the other side, they really are better for it, no matter how painful that learning and growth can feel at the time.

Hi KD,

I came across this as i was going through your sitch (it's quite long so I'm not through it yet). It was written in March 2011. I was just wondering if you still felt that way.

Don't know about KD, but I certainly agree with that statement 100%.

Sorry you are here Arsene. You are getting good advice. Give her space, GAL, and do your best to detach. Patience and time are the two keys to DB, IMO. It will take a lot of both.

I hope that you have seen the list of 37 DB ideas to follow. I think that you can find them pretty easily if not.

As to your question, listen to Bond... do not initiate R talk with your W. That is pursuit. Avoid that at all costs, because it is pressure. And... pressure is not going to help your cause. It will only push her farther away.

Keep your head up, stay positive, and take care of yourself. You have a long road ahead of you.

Denver

[Arsene]

Thanks MrBond,

We are not in D procedures (yet). In fact, W said that she didn't care about divorce papers. So I guess what you are saying is that limbo/uncertainty for me is better than to get her to eventually say/do something under pressure, which might end up being final?

Thanks Denver,

I tend to agree with the friendship issue as well, although i do find it a scary place to be. I have seen the list of 37 DB ideas to follow and i do agree with all of them, until I go onto "fear mode" (which is often these days).

I guess I was thinking about setting "boundaries" for our separation. I've seen that word kick around quite a bit in DB. I just thought that a well defined separation might work better than just leaving without talking about it. This is very frustrating. I guess this is all what I want, not what SHE wants. And for the time being what i want should be coming from me and not from her.

[pulpwood]

I think that if she does bring it up(you should not)... It will be a time for you to listen. Do not react to anything she says. I repeat, just listen.

If you are asked a question you don't feel comfortable answering, or you feel your answer would escalate things into an argument, tell her you need to think about it. Leave it at that.

Agree with her on everything you can. Most importantly, her feelings. You can't disagree with those. No one can.

[MrBond]

"So I guess what you are saying is that limbo/uncertainty for me is better than to get her to eventually say/do something under pressure, which might end up being final?"

No you are getting the two things mixed up. By not bringing up a R talk, it doesn't mean that you are in limbo. You set a course of how your life is going to be WITHOUT your W in the picture. For example, you haven't stated what your concrete plans are in terms of your daughter. Who is going to be watching her and helping her in school? You set the schedule and tone for the things that YOU have control over.

You don't have any control over what your W does or doesn't do, so do what you can on your own. She probably doesn't even know what's going on with her.

The issue with 'boundaries' comes up when there's someone else involved. Your W doesn't have that going on as far as you know.

[Arsene]

I see. Yeah, I guess this state of "limbo" is self-imposed. I have to move one from there myself and take charge of what I can. I'll be living with D8 and taking care of her, taking her to school, helping her and pretty much always be there for her. I am trying to make sure she has as good a home as possible so she doesn't feel the absence of her mom too much. It's going to be difficult for her as they used to be very close, much closer than we are, although after the last 2 months together in my country, I think we've come a long way.

With regards to boundaries there is a possibility that she is seeing her EA again, after 2 years apart. In fact, I suspect that HE is why she chose to live in this city, but i could just be paranoid. In any event, in another talk the topic came up and we agreed not to introduce D8 to a string of girl/boyfriends.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Arsene]

Good advice Pulpwood. Especially about agreeing with her feelings. Thanks for your time.

[MrBond]

So your W isn't planning to see her D at all? That's something that needs to be discussed. If she isn't, then you need to set up C for your daughter ASAP. She's the one that's the biggest loser in this whole mess.

[Arsene]

Sorry MrBond,

The way things are set up is that i will be living with D8 and pretty much take care of everything but i insisted that W got a boarding room in the nieghborhood so she can come around anytime she can. I suggested she come around and have breakfast with D8 once in a while or even come by in the evening for story time before bed.

This is actually the reason I chose to come back to this city because W didn't seem to care whether or not i stayed in my own country with D8. This is so out of character and it makes me really believe that we are talking about MLC rather than WAW.

In my opinion, it's really important for D8 to see both parents as often as possible especially that we had been a very close family and often did things together. If from then on, W decides not to come around, at least I'll have done every thing I could to make it easy. At that point, I will absolutely get C for D8.

I'm now in the process of looking for C for myself and one of my main issued will be to figure out how to deal with D8 in the best way possible.

I agree with you. We all lose but my little girl lost the most and she's part of the reason I'm not giving up on W. I know she's still somewhere in there and I'm ready to be as patient as needed and to work as hard as i can to get our family back together.