i am thinking about your post of yesterday morning.
sometimes i am able to predict what will meet people's needs. sometimes i am not able to (and i can be so wrong!). it's a lot easier when people give me feedback. then i am not guessing. unfortunately, there is still this defensive part of myself that has strong preferences for the manner in which feedback is given. intellectually, i know that even my worst enemy can tell me valuable things about myself. or someone can go on an angry rant and there may well be some truth in what they say. yet, there are times when it's just hard to see that because i am also an emotional creature that goes into a form of arousal when i feel attacked, judged or criticized. i truly believe i am learning to manage this better and better, yet i would be lying if i said it's always easy.
i also know any relationship i am in is going to work better with feedback, especially constructive two-way feedback. so....here is what i liked about your post. you reported an honest reaction to a previous post, you reported your feelings about it (including vulnerable feelings besides anger), you took ownership of how you interpreted the message by using the phrase "i heard...", you were mature enough to recognize that what you heard and the sender said/meant may not be the same. furthermore, you did not question the good intentions of the sender, you did not attack the sender, you did not blame, you did not deflect responsibility.
as a result, and excuse me for making assumptions here, but i think they are reasonable, a person with good intentions that supports you was able to receive this valuable information.
how has this process worked within your marriage? is there opportunity - even at this stage - to use this type of skill in giving or receiving feedback? perhaps at this stage it's more about you listening and receiving. maybe your W gives feedback in the way we all hope for, maybe she doesn't. it would be interesting to hear some background here.
Hi Oys2. I will attempt to answer your question and that of Kaffe's.
The recent realization for me is that I have used anger instead of the other feelings that one can think/feel. As Cat suggested, it is a learned behavior. Some was passed down by our father/mother and reinforced by many other variables that I have just become aware of. It is absolutetly essential especially at this stage of my M to use what I have learned. The truth is that I have felt anger even when there was no love involved. Such as in work but to a lesser extent. So I have to become comfortable when someone says or does something that makes me feel less than. I have to allow myself to feel disappointed about myself. I think the key word is to really allow yourself to feel that feeling and not put it out with anger.
For me I think anger was a more acceptable behavior if someone said I was stupid or something like that. It would not have been ok to just say, I agree I am a dumbass. And anger is less painfull than feeling low or bad about myself.
That is what has been going on in my head latetly. The other realization is that my father (and to some extent my mother) was admired by our social circle. He was viewed as an honorable man. People respected him even tho he had some serious outburst and they were very often. I am now wondering if they were just scared sh!!tless of him? Possibly. When you say you become defensive I think that is the same. Not wanting to feel criticized because it hurts. So you fight back even if they are making sense.
My W rarely gave me feedback or I was just not listening because I was to busy being right. Or she was afraid that I would get angry. All of them might be the case. Maybe all of them were the case. Hope I made some sense. This is very new to me.
@Kaffe My goal is to no longer feel anger at its current level
I will know that I have arrived when I can automatically allow myself to feel all of the other wonderful feelings. And when my internal feeling extinguisher goes empty.
Hope it makes sense? Still not very clear to me.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
@Mach I am not avoiding your questions just thinking about the answers really hard.
Update on BIL
W was to have taken ILs to visit him at hospital around noon time. I called to make sure D was home safe at around 2 pm. W answers the phone and I was stunned. I said sorry just making sure D was home safe. I didn't think you would be home. She tells me that they were told not to come as he would be sedated. I ok thanks and hung up.
Got home from work and as I got my evening attire W says BILs surgery went well. He did not need a colostomy bag as it was far up high. That is a good thing. Than she says that the tumor was 2.5". She asked me if that was too big? I said if you can't feed a family of four with it it is not too big. (kidding ok)
I said that I did not think so but was not sure. My dad's tumor was 2.5 kilos. She asked some stuff but I really did not know and said so. I just asked if the cancer had spread to other organs. She did not know. We sat to eat and we Said one or two words. They are visiting him tomorrow.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Rick- You posted on 2tp's thread about the fact that you have moved into a new phase of detachment where you are not at all focused or obsessed with your W at all. Can you elaborate a little more on your perspective as I am back and forth on detaching and then obsessing. It's quite frustrating.
@Mach1 I am going to try an anwser the questions you posted. If it makes no sense I'll try again. I have been thinking about it but there is still some confusion in my head.
How do you envision yourself moving past this ?
I think that I need to continue to discover what makes me tick. For example I never knew how afraid I was of my W disapproving of me. Either by what I was doing or whatever. So instead of having a mature discussion about how I felt I would just shut it until I got pissed. Even tho she may not have said or done anything for me to think that way. So I think I do alot of self talk which leads to me to act. I am paying attention to what I tell myself.
What steps would you like to see yourself taking ?
I would like to continue focusing on me and not so much on W or others. I would like to get a handle of when I want to let my anger get to me and have an outburst. Because they way I see it now is that I wanted to be enraged if that makes sense.
How will you know when you get there ?????
I think that I would have arrived at my goal when I can feel angry without really having much of a reaction maybe a red face. Also when I can feel rejected, disappointed, disrespected and so on without having to defend myself. Just be ok with what ever I think or is said to my about me.
For example when I got home W and D had gone to visit BIL. But I was worried because I was not told that D was going. I TM D wondering were she was and she did not answer. So I started worrying, than thinking how eefed up it was that W did not tell me she was taking D and started getting pissed but I stopped myself. Saw the line of progression. So I stopped panicking and played some MW3. D TM me about an hour later saying she was fine. That is when I realized she had gone to the hospital to visit. 1st time alone without W and D. Felt lonely at 1st but I adjusted. They came home after I went to sleep.
This morning W made me breakfast which she has not done in a while. I thanked her. Than she tells me she was going to the barn I just said ok and kept going to where I was going. She did not tell me how the visit with BIL was or how he is doing and I won't ask. Hope I made some sense
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Since we have been talking about communication styles, and triggers for you that leave you in a reactive state ( and not very good at it BTW )
I wanna throw something out to you...Cap'n Therapissed....
My x was an extrovert, very outgoing ( Italian, you know what I mean ). Over the years, I had patterned myself to dealing with myself in terms of communicating with her. I am somewhat an introvert . So the only way I really ever expressed myself, or interpreted myself in the relationship, was what I knew.
I dealt with her like she was an introvert, because that is the way I communicated. I didn't understand the difference in the two. Hell, maybe I would go as far as saying that I didn't know there was a different way.
When we would talk, HER answers were right there. I missed a LOT of them though, because I expected her to communicate with me on my terms. That led to a LOT of unfulfilled conversations from me. It led to frustrations because it was not the way I communicated. My frustration would lead to anger, much the same way you have described.
My partner now, is an introvert. And what I learned (the hard way ) , was the difference between the two communications styles. It wasn't until I met her, that it even occurred to me.
I would ask a question on my time, and expect an answer on my time.
What I learned was, that with communication with an introvert. (especially if you are an extrovert). We can ask questions on our time, although the answers come on their time. Sometimes I wait for days for an answer.
What I was doing with her was....I was asking these questions, and she would feel "pushed" for an answer, because she wasn't ready. And in time, she would feel over run, because the questions would stack up in her brain. One after another, before she could answer the first one....
This also led to some very frustrating times, until I learned to ask one thing...then wait for the answer. I pour a tall glass of STFU, until her answers come to her.
What this did, was allow me to step back, and relieve a lot of frustration on my end, because I was eliminating my expectations.
I removed MY triggers for frustration turning towards anger at her....by simply recognizing and removing those expectations.
