I'm Far from perfect

[plsfindmylove]

as the title says, im not perfect. most threads i read on here are of all the wrongs the other spouse does to the one posting... well ive gone and flipped it around, i have not been a good husband to my wife, and i want to change and keep her from leaving me.

a few highlights of her and i, going to be as honest and not biased as i can, yes i am looking for support, but also want brutal honest in what might work to keep my marriage from going bye bye.

feb 2010 the 14th... wife and i have a physical incident, im 4 months into my DV classes and they have revealed me to be someone who was isolated, jealous, controlling and mean. while this is a big deal, specially more so i feel cause of the mental abuse, i have asked for forgiveness and gotten it from my wife for this incident. so im really adding it hear cause of the controlling nature and habits i still need to kick to the curb.

mar 17th 2010 - wife says she can no longer be married to me, asks for divorce, i fight for her, but limited by a protection order. not making excuses i didnt fight for her the right way at all, basically just threatened her with kids (we have 3) and money and house, still all forms of control to get her to HAVE to stay with me.

may 2010 - i have found and am dating another person now, treating her the way i should have treated my wife, going out more, not being such a computer gaming geek, more respect less jealousy from me... better.

aug 2010 - other girl and i break up. (she hung up on me one day and that was that would not talk to me again) she will be back later on...

oct 2010 wife and i have a conversation very deep, she is breaking down basically saying she cant believe its over, and that it should have been a forever thing, we start dating. not just get to know each other, but jump back in full ML and everything. however PO scares me to never leaving her house or mine, so basically it just sort of becomes a physical relationship... still not able to show her much change from what i learned from ex gf.

@@@@ sorry if im skipping some of the past stuff that might seem big, it probably is but its a bit more in the past@@@

Jan 2011 - relationship not going well, fell back into controlling habits (texting too much, trying to tell her who she can talk to and see and what not) snooped phone records... she is texting a guy 8-12 hours a day, all day. i am freaking out more at this point, trying to beg and plead with her to work on us and drop him.

Jan 2011 26th - dropping kids off, he is at the house, i melt down, crying, begging, pleading for her not to leave me, cops get called by him, PO still in place, jail i go again. she doesnt say its over at this point but, obviously its damn close.

jan 2011 27th thru feb 7th - scared to go to jail again, treat each other coldly, not much contact at all, when there is its with a 3rd party.

feb 2011 12th or so - she is now in a relationship with this other person, basically i pushed her right into it by being jealous and controlling all over again.

march 2011 - find out she is pregnant from new bf and he is now living in the house with her... i move on myself and am now dating girl from last summer.

may 2011 2nd - this is the meat... i had been dumped my gf a week prior, and wife is having issues with bf as well, during exchanges leading up to this date we had kind of lingered a bit more, talking a bit more each time, she said something like, 'before its too late' based on the fact that for over a year neither of us have filed, or did anything really about divorce, and i have started DV classes and found out just how messed up i had been acting pretty much my whole life, i have a very open and honest discussion about me being controlling and the incident from a year ago, and well, the big bomb for her, multiple AFFAIRS on my side. i didnt have to tell her, no one would have ever known, but i thought to really give this marriage a chance i had to be open and honest about it all. she figures something like that happened, but never knew, she basically feels stupid now that our whole relationship was a sham. its a good discussion, she kicks bf out and we have agreed to work on our marriage to see why neither of us have filed and to make sure we want to be done with each other.


May 4th til now ish -

-lost house to forclosure, tried to keep 2 house for as long as i could but she only had part time job of like 15 hours a week. no excuses though, i did let it go more when he moved in to my house i was paying for but not living in.
-po gets modified so i can see wife anytime June 2nd, her ex calls cops on us same day. didnt go to jail...
- no physical contact this time round. hold hands at one point but thats gone again.
- she stopped saying i love you about mid june
- lot of stress packing and her not having a place to move too, i have a 3 kids and renting 4 bedroom house. at first this is the option but we cant build on anything to have her feel comfortable moving in with me.
- baby daddy helps her almost every day pack and move. causes lots of fight as basically she wants him round and not me to help.

**** main reason she doesnt want to be around me... i cant drop the rope... every day i discuss relationship with her, basically trying to control her again and wear her down to jump back in and work on things again with me.
- we have a few dates, they go well, but i end up talking R again and ruining any good vibes or progress.
- no one she knows, or i know think we should be together. people on my side think she is not giving me anything to work with, people are her side, well you saw about pick any reason or several.

&&&&
ok sorry i feel all over the place and like im leaving so much out. so here is where this is currently... she watches kids at my house, then goes elsewhere to sleep, comes back in the morning. she feels like she can see this great person im trying to be, and have been with gf from the summer, but i dont show it to her. she is still not sure she can get past affairs i have had, and for summer GF living her life.

last week, i finally get that im pushing her away by always talking R, yes i read the books several times, but the thought of losing her and all the stuff i know im not supposed to do, i do.

we argued sat night i come home from work, oldest kid has been throwing a fit for last 4 hours, wife is stressed and just done, i pick up her frustration and stress right away, i help get oldest calmed down, but almost accuse her of not letting me help her by begging her what i should be doing to help her de-stress. oldest throws another fit when punishment is doled out, prevents her from leaving for a bit longer, i take that time to fight a little more with her about not wanting to see me on her days off when she made time to see baby daddy twice while i was working. basically i turned her anger from our son to me.

-sunday she spend all day sleeping, we text a little, i tell her im stuck a bit, she ignores it most of the day. we start talking about what my issue is that night be she falls asleep. issue i was having was feeling unloved, and not even liked. she will spend time with someone she is not trying to save a marriage with but not me.

- monday smaller fight, she does say sorry for falling asleep. fight about baby daddy again, and she tells me again that her and i are not in a relationship. that we cant even get along without fighting. she again brings up the fact that i was some great guy with summer GF. i try to tell her that i dont feel wanted by my wife, and that makes all the difference.

tues thru today go pretty well. no fights, trying to drop the rope, she wants to go out Sat night with her brother, but needs to leave tonight as soon as i get home so she can sleep. hard to not be a little upset but didnt show it yet.


the gist of why im here... i have read a lot of stories, and while my situation is me basically being the big time bad guy, i have changed and want to continue to change for the better and be the husband she deserves or the next person... i want to change for me, i dont want to be a controlling jerk and more, i dont want to disrespect her and walk all over her needs and wants. to be open to her so she can hurt me, not be controlling so i dont get hurt.

i know i have done her a lot of wrongs, i just need support as best it can be given to stay on a path for changes in myself so that i can hopefully save my marriage. she seems like she wants it to work, i know it will take WAY more time than i want to fix it, just hard doing it alone, since no one i talk to supports me. (a goal of mine is to find better friends and support)

my goals... STOP discussing R.
STOP asking/talking/anything about baby daddy.
STOP smothering her and let her have time to think things thru
work on myself, being happy without her.
being happy with my kids

that was probably clear as mud... and so much info not too big on some details im sure...

sorry!

[~¤DG¤~]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what does DV mean?

Welcome to the group. You certainly have been through a lot and I am sure it took a lot of guts to post your story and be as honest about it as you are. That's the thing though, if you know what the problem is, then you can fix it.

The first thing I would suggest besides counseling, is anger management. From one control freak to another, I know how hard that behavior is to stop, but you have to.
You can only control yourself, your actions, and your decisions. Trying to control a situation you can't is exhausting, isn't it?

It takes 2 to make a marriage work, and while it is good that you acknowledge your part in this, don't take all the blame.
Your W having a child by another man would be very hard to deal with emotionally. I can understand your struggle there. I hope you don't take it out on the child, (s)he is innocent in all of this.

Keep posting, I know you'll find some great advice.

[25yearsmlc]

let me re-cap...and get a helmet on b/c you're going to get what we call a 2x4 to wake you up.

I see it this way--

You had no boundaries with your w. You criticized & belittled her and cheated on her, were incredibly controlling and manipulative and dishonest with her.
Lots of great husband behavior here...
She was hurt and angry and used the few tools she had, to fight back. You had no tools for handling negative feedback so you freaked.

You hit her. For MANY women, like most, that would end it for good. Period. NO discussion. That's it...for me, that's the truth.

.....You were forced to attend DV class (probably would not have gone on your own??) There, you realized you were an admitted "controlling jerk".

But you love your w. You want more for your life and more of yourself.

But You date OW...You change nothing in your dynamic with your w.


Um...okay...no inconsistency there...

OW breaks up with you. We don't know why b/c you don't say.

You renew your interest in your w. (Shocker).

You or both of you, blow it again. This is b/c you repeat the same old same old, somehow thinking "THIS TIME" it'll be different.


Somehow, You learn or you use zero conflict resolution skills.

You have learned Nothing about filtering your words, calming yourself down

or not being a controlling nut...and so, you repeat your mistakes.

You push & push no matter what your w tells you. She says not to bring up R talk. You do it anyhow.

She says she wants space. You refuse to give it to her.

You don't control your own behavior.

You change partners, but you don't change YOU.

Of course it's easier to be nicer to gf, (and make the w jealous?? It proves nothing b/c everyone knows it is easier to START fresh...just won't last b/c it won't always be fresh...

you don't have the history or shame or issues with OW...yet...(but trust me, you will) Why do I say that?

B/c YOU have not changed YOU.

And History repeats itself.

I think it was Einstein who said "The definition of insanity is doing the same behavior, but expecting a different result."

We humans do that often...til we've hurt ourselves and our loved ones enough to actually CHANGE...but we can change.

Something in you wants and expects more of yourself...so

Then you posted this at the end of your thread...


i know i have done her a lot of wrongs, i just need support as best it can be given to stay on a path for changes in myself so that i can hopefully save my marriage. (SAVE YOURSELF FIRST, MARRIAGE SECOND..YOU CANNOT DO THE LATTER WITHOUT DOING THE FORMER.)

she seems like she wants it to work, i know it will take WAY more time than i want to fix it, just hard doing it alone, since no one i talk to supports me. (a goal of mine is to find better friends and support)

WE ALL NEED THIS^^^. SOMETIMES THIS SITE IS THE ONLY PLACE TO GET IT...

my goals... STOP discussing R.
STOP asking/talking/anything about baby daddy.
STOP smothering her and let her have time to think things thru
work on myself, being happy without her.
being happy with my kids

that was probably clear as mud... and so much info not too big on some details im sure...

sorry!



Alrighty....

I realize Having a baby in the house, of another man is a tough pill to swallow, though you seem fair enough to realize it's not as if she cheated on you, or had an affair exactly.

It simply resulted from the natural behavior of a dating single woman.

It's unfortunate for the baby if he/she feels unwelcome in your w's life or in yours if you are with your w.

Is this something you can see handling? I mean, do you KNOW you won't take it out on the child down the road?

If you don't KNOW this, get more help and don't bother with your w til you do.
[b]
The child's welfare is more important than your hurt feelings.
Do you agree with that^^ statement? Do you know what I mean??

Honestly, some of your posts are surprisingly immature for a man.
The justification of the multiple affairs is astounding...you didn't feel special or loved enough?

You sound so insecure and ironically, YOU were the biggest problem in your m, not her.

I can't recall any of my high school boyfriends behaving this way...no ffenses but you don't seem to get how OUT of the bell curve of normal behavior, your behavior is. So I'm sorry but tbh, I didn't date guys with so little self control. For a man, a father of 3 to behave this way & for this long...you have to change my man.
[/b]
You are lucky your if your w will even give you a chance. Don't blow it.

I think you need to work on YOU and you alone (with some space). Get out of the house or apartment, get some real help.

Do not move in together any time soon. Forget OW. She is a bandaid that prevents you from looking at yourself & fixing you.

Be available to your w as needed WHEN and ONLY WHEN you have some tools you presently lack AND if & when she asks.

I mean, don't show up if you don't have it in you to actually help or manage.

Are you the type of guy who MUST have a woman with him at all times?? How needy are you?

(I'm guessing pretty darn needy.)

You have no control over your w so don't fight a losing battle pretending you do...

and get some basic conflict resolution skills, and anger management too.


Women are attracted to strong men. Strong men are in control of themselves, not others.

Your DV c may be able to refer you to someone who can help with this concept.

Your anger is a HUGE issue today...not just yesterday or long ago (most people don't think of things less than 3 years ago as long)

Your anger caused you to lose the house, (being punitive/not paying the bills b/c of baby daddy being there was cutting your nose to spite your face).

and

your anger is why you hit your w in the first place.

Your anger has been your master.

You have been its' dog. Do you want to be your anger's beyotch?

It got you where you are today. So Master your anger.

Sounds great in theory.

SO...what are you going to DO (not say or wish, but DO)

to achieve your goals?

[~ kd ~]

In one of your previous threads, you were asked if your W was ever abusive to you, physically, verbally, etc...

And you didn't answer...

The only person that you can change is YOU...

but it does not help if your W is emotionally volatile...

Before anything positive can happen, the cycle MUST stop... and YOU need to be the one to stop it.

You talk about the PO a few times and not wanting to go back to jail.

If you are concerned that could happen... either by some new 'incident' or simply as a false claim... then you may want to remove yourself from a possible volatile situation and really figure stuff out for you, before attempting to work on the M.

just my $0.07

[plsfindmylove]

My wife is not abusive, i know all i can change is myself.

the PO is gone for the most part, so there is no worries of it happening again.

the baby is innocent, and i see it as something she did when we were not together, just like if i were to date someone new who had kids. he wants to be involved and since its a baby there will be some complications and things that have to be handled slower and with a more delicate touch than if kid was older, but it is still my wives kid so i will do what i can to raise it and not treat her (its a girl) like one of my own kids, since my other 3 kids will see it as a full sister, we wont call her half sister.

25 - i put your post in a notepad to go thru it some more, i see some very valid points you make, im not going to deny most of it, i know i have not been a great person. the DV classes were forced, but i was doing my own IC before them cause i knew i had a problem.

last night -
got home, kids were mostly calm, we ran out of dish soap for the dishwasher so she was washing dishes by hand, i grabbed a towel and started helping. she stayed about an hour in total, kids were still up and put some music on and were dancing, her being 6 months pregnant as we were sitting there i offered a foot massage and she accepted, it was nice. my big issue is always talking R with her, i think i made one comment but nothing that turned into a disscussion last night.

this morning -
nothing too exciting, kids were already up, and she didnt sleep well so going to be a long day for her ( i work 12 hours) and then she was going out with her brother tonight. i have only said that should be fun. even though on the inside im disappointed she doesnt want to spend time with me, and always makes excuses that she is tired and will not hang out with me and she will end up staying out with him til 2-3 in the morning most likely.

next few days - she has her own photography business and is planning on sleeping in sunday and then working on pictures the rest of the day. i have asked if she would like breakfast or lunch with me and the kids, no answer yet. monday we have a couple of appts we are going to do then after school going to have a family date day/night since money is tight and no family can watch out 3 kids so her and i can go out alone. tuesday is another day she is claiming to work and i will not see her at all.

we basically still run a custody of 50/50 and she does have a job she makes money at yet, so she has 3-4 days off a week to do nothing. i work 3-4 days 12 hour shifts and my days off i watch and take kids to school. so i know i have some changes i need to do, just little time to do them! i can make the time though, just has to be with 3 kids in tow.

[sandi2]

so i know i have some changes i need to do, just little time to do them

Why little time to make changes?

If you see that talking to her about the R is actually hurting the situation, then don't you think it would be rather dense to keep doing it? I mean, how's that working for you?

[plsfindmylove]

yes i do realize just how dense i am by talking R to her. its just hard to do when i actually get around her. i know its my nature to be controlling, and for this to work i have to let that part of me go and let her choose what she wants. i can see it, i know it, im working hard to actually DO IT. which is why i finally posted here, so maybe i could talk a bit more about it to other people and not to her.

the little time is that she is 6 months pregnant... and i guess for my kids sake as well, i wanted us to figure out if we are trying to work this out or moving on before the baby is born.

[sandi2]

Coming here to post might ease some stress for you. For sure, you will meet some great people who are willing to give of their time and experience to help others.

I think I understand a little about the control and trying to fix the R by talking about the issues. I was like that for the biggest part of my life. At least you realize what you are doing wrong. When we don't know where we're failing then how will we know what to change?

Talking was the only way I knew how to communicate with another person. My H, on the other hand, did not talk with me. It was the most frustrating ordeal for a person like me.

Focus on the things you need to improve about yourself. I mean as a man, first, and then as a husband, and a father. Set yourself daily goals. Talk to us about it. Don't talk to your W about it, okay? Very important not to discuss how you want to change or asking her if she's noticed any difference in you, etc. She will notice, but the hardest thing for her to believe....is you staying changed. Anybody can be better for a few weeks, even months.....but what about years? You can look under the Newcomers forum and see two or three stories from former members who DBed and got their S to stay in the M.....only to stop the changes and to fall back into their old habits/ways. So, it has to be life-long improvements and it has to be for yourself, first.

Instead of looking at this stitch like the two of you are going to see if things can be worked out or not.....you need to decide that the M you had is dead. The man you use to be is dead. In fact, the girl you M is dead. Refresh yourself with that part of Michele's DR book that discusses a beginner's mind. B/c that is how you need to enter in this part of your life. It will be so tempting to tell your W to do that also.....but don't. It's just for you.

We call DBing the game play, or the toolbox. It's just for you to use, and not her.

Do you feel that the DV classes and the IC has helped you to a great degree? Is there a limitation to how many DV classes you can attend? I believe you can see how you must be able to channel your tempter in a different manner. I have a male family member who struggles with his temper. He has one of those long boxing bags hanging up in his garage. When he first gets home from work each day, he give that old bag the hardest punches he can give, and does it as long as it takes for him to get the built up stress out of his system.

If you know that the only way to make this MR work is for you to change, not her, then I believe it has a very good chance of making it. Don't expect her to make any self-improvements. Don't expect any response from her toward your improvements. That's why you can't put her actions or attitude under a magnified glass, just stay focused on you. That's not to say she doesn't need to make any changes herself, but you are the one here and it's you that we will be trying to help. This works when you do it right!

[plsfindmylove]

yes i have been reading posts for the last month or so, following as many people's situation as i can, specially the ones that seem close to mine, it helped for sure seeing that things can get better, just thought i might need a bit more since her not having a place to sleep and me with an extra room and her not willing to stay under the same roof that i better get myself under control more/faster/better.

ill do my best to not try and get tempature checks from her, but its hard to not be like look at all these things im doing differently... i found a great post that talked about change, and how it will take her a while to feel like its real. i know she thinks its fake still. every day in the last 3 months of so up until about 2 weeks ago, we would hang out, have a good time and then BAM i would start talking R and ruin it.

i still have a good 4-5 months of DV classes left, so im half way there, i am very active in my group, i know its the best thing that could have come out of all of this, and being controlling does have a few roots in my childhood, though not all. i was selfish, i wanted what i wanted and i didnt want to be hurt or vulnerable to anyone. the classes do help, they show me some tools that i need to use, very simular to DB'ing. GAL for sure, not being so isolated, not having her be more than 20% of my happiness. only i can make myself happy, not someone else. not to always point out what she ISNT doing and to celbrate the things she can do and handle at this stage.

its hard to stop begging her if we just could jump back in i know it would work. it seems so logical. but i realize its not about me, its about her and the time and space she needs to sort out a lot of stuff. meanwhile i need to make myself look more attractive to her. so ill be working on some goals in the next few days that im off.

**update on today, we met for lunch, she brought 3 kids with her, i blew it for a good 15 minutes of my hour lunch. im not her friend on facebook, and she is very guarded with her phone, so i of course start accusing her of trying to hide baby daddy and their relationship from me. it turned into a fight for a few minutes til i got myself under control, and dropped the rope and asked to have a good rest of the lunch, even though i was the one that ruined it to start. i really shot myself in the foot when she does see me, then i jump on her verbally like that, why would she want to plan to see me again when that happens every time!!!! sheez. and i KNOW not to do it!!!

*** tonight she is going out with brother, i knew this and planned on making swap with kids go quickly... just got text from her...

wife: brother wants to meet 8 815 if you can get home quickly, i know youll probably be upset cuz im running out the door, but i did tell you i had plans....

i didnt respond yet, but obviously past interactions show up big in how she is assuming im going to be. going to do my best to make sure she meets him at 8!!

wish me luck!

[25yearsmlc]

isn't it sad (but useful) when you hear a comment that reveals how SHE sees YOU? She's expecting you to be upset by a small thing. And she's got reason for that expectation...(SIGH)

So, respond quickly, with a normal, healthy man's response, like "No problem. I'll do my best to get there!"

and recognize some of your behavior is simply the behavior of a bully.

Do you want to be that guy?

The fact that you are here, suggests you do not.

DBing can only help you improve your life.

But yes, you DO have to DO it.

No talking about it. The more you talk about your changes, the more they'll appear to be tactics.

Plus, some of them are simply "non bullying" behaviors. Don't expect applause.

But hey, the more she's with you, the more you need to "hear" loud clapping and know you do have an audience watching you.

IMO, she WANTS to believe you'll change for real, permanently. She wants to be able to trust you and to feel safe with you.

She doesn't have amnesia.

She has a lot of images/memories to cope with, and to erase from her mind/heart.

You have to help her do that by proving yourself worthy and changed.


Keep at it. Come HERE to vent...