Just Be

[Denver_2010]

ugg... ignore post immediately above this one... hit 'reply' too soon.

[Denver_2010]

Reply to MHL and 25...

I understand that you are being open and honest with this OW and she may be on board with where you are at however I am wondering if you are being open and honest with yourself?

At some point in the future will you be wondering if this current relationship with OW stood in the way of your W making a decision to recommit to working on the marriage?

Will you be okay wtih that??

Sure, that is possible MHL. But it's also possible that I may die tomorrow, or a week from now.

My W making a decision to recommit to working on our M is very hypothetical right now. I'm not willing to live my life based upon rules or concerns of a hypothetical situation.

She has made a choice to live her life without for me for now... quite possibly forever. If me choosing to spend time with OW, or date OW, turns out to be consequence of W's choice... so be it.

I highly doubt that your W will come to you in a month or two and say that she wants to work on the marriage if you are with the OW or for that matter any other woman.

I think that if she is clear enough about what she wants, then she will express that to me. Hell, I have expressed what I have wanted very clearly numerous times knowing that W was seeing or at least in contact with OM. At this point, my thought is... why can't she be expected to do the same?

I think you have really started to let your W be, you are finally giving her the space she has wanted all along........it is not a "fake it until you make it" thing.

She felt that distance when you went to the reunion, she texted you late at night..........WHY???

This was before she knew about the OW......right???

It is not a fake it until I make it thing at this point. At least not most of the time. I admit that I vacillate between being very strong in my thinking and being very weak in my thinking. Either way, I am dead set on not being drawn back into my W's web until her thinking is VERY different than it has been.

The reunion stuff was before she knew about OW... yes. Why did she feel that distance? I don't know that it was that necessarily... I believe that it was more a concern of her's that there would be women from my past at the reunion.

Does this show that W still cares? I think so. But this is just another example of her conflicting actions and words. One minute she acts jealous and is asking me who I am with and where I am; the next, she is telling me that she needs her space, that she is done with me, moving to her own place and not telling me the location.

I'm done with that. I can't live like that any longer.

Now imagine a month or two of doing that with no other woman in the picture..........

MHL, thanks for your post, your thoughts and your advice. You will probably never know how much it means to me. I apologize if I am coming across as angry... maybe I am... but not at you or any other poster. My intent is to be determined and straight forward... not angry.

Imagine a month or two of "that" with no OW? I see exactly what you are saying. It is something that I consider on a daily basis. And I understand how treacherous that the waters that I am treading right now are.

I know that I am going to be slammed for my R with OW. I get it. I accept it. But I need for people to understand that this is not some random OW that I just met. I have had more than a few opportunities to latch onto random OW's over the past 9 months and I haven't done it.

At this juncture though, I am unwilling to bypass the opportunity to at least explore what else is out there. Especially with this particular OW. Again, this is someone who I have known for years, liked, and even dated in the past. She is very different than my W. I merely want to explore the possibility that what my W offers not what will make me happy in my life.

Right now, I am not considering marrying OW ... or even having a long term R with her. A buddy of mine called her my 'girlfriend' the other day... I immediately asked that he not refer to her that way.

I am very confused emotionally right now. I admit that. I am just trying to live my life the best that I can through that confusion.... eventually it will subside, right??

Lotus' assessment that your w "used you" is unfair & wildly oversimplifying an actual marriage. If she were "using" you,

she'd either file and get money from you that she could count on, OR she'd stay put IN the m, and get more of it...she's doing neither by living this way now. But I think you "get" that...so I'll move on.

Absolutely agreed.

So How about you NOT being the source of pressure?

My intent is to remove any and all pressure on my W. I will not be a part of her life until her thinking has clarified and until she is willing to work on our M. It is unhealthy for me and it is not useful to working towards reconciliation.

Um the holiday...too bad you HAD to check her emails...couldn't wait til the holiday was over or mostly?

Do you see any element of sabotage there?

I thought vis a vis the marriage, The whole goal was to show her the positive changes in you and NONE of the negatives...for one week. Why did you have to "know" then & there? Just asking...

too late now, but still....odd act of yours to do at that time, imo.

Maybe a poor choice on my part. But the fact remains that she was being dishonest with me. I would never had another opportunity to check her email if I had not taken it when I did.

Bad in that it makes my W feel that I am controlling... okay, I accept that. But these are not ordinary circumstances either.

Good in that I learned a truth that has helped me to realize that I could not continue living the way that I was.

I'd also like to add 25 that W was also able to see many, many good things from me during that trip. Other than this one episode, I was the perfect H/father.

Back off and give yourself an internal timeline, minimum of a month (I'd say 90 days to a "normal" person but you get obsessive with her so I'm trying to be real) of

My timeline is indefinite right now 25. Like I said above, I have absolutely zero interest in contacting or talking to my W until she figures out what she wants and what she is willing to do IF what she wants is our M.

I am swimming to the other shore. If I get there before W figures this out... then it is her loss. That is my timeline.

NO contact initiated by you.

But avoid all the game playing childish stuff about not answering her texts...

she could have waited to ask her questions I GUESS, but honestly, some of her texts weren't nutty or weird to want answers for...

then when she asked if you were no longer talking to her, why couldn't you simply say "I'm just busy right now"???

What's with the weird silent treatment stuff? I Honestly don't get it.

I will not be initiating contact unless it has to do with bills or SS.

I'm also done letting her think that I will jump anytime that she wants something. That is why I was waiting to reply to her texts the other night. I was not planning to ignore them completely.

BUT she gave me 2 hours to reply to her first text before she sent me the text message asking me if I was ignoring her. 2 HOURS. That is not a lot of time.

Them, she gave me 15 minutes from the time of her second text and her third text which was the rude one asking me if my attorney had told me not to talk to her.

Listen 25, the timing of W's text messages says a lot more than the texts themselves. She needed to know if she had mail at 4:30 p.m. on a FRIDAY evening? Highly unlikely.

She just had to have her mail at 10:45 p.m. on a Friday night?? HIGHLY unlikely.

This was W checking up on me or trying to draw me back in in some way... at least IMO. Maybe even baiting me into having some conversation about R or OW... who knows. But I don't think that the timing of these text messages was coincidental or completely random.

As for her midnight texts to you and the HS reunion comments...very very interesting.

You got her attention by NOT paying any attention to her. Hmm.

That's not a lesson for how to be married, but it MIGHT be a lesson for how to get her attention while separated.

I'd pursue the "mystery Denver man" thing more, and consistently.

Who knows 25. Again, I have to point to W's inconsistency with her actions and words... she shows jealousy one minute, but then tells me that she doesn't 'feel the same way' about me the next.

I'm just kind of tired of trying to figure it out.

I plan on being a complete mystery to W for the time being.

BTW-What was your goal in telling your w about the OW?

Am I wrong for feeling that it threatens the hell out of your w?

After all, she may lose the position of having ALL the power that she has held now for many months.

That will be an event for her. An unpleasant one. Perhaps a motivating one???

But I don't know how she'll handle it. But she's Not indifferent to what you do.

She has seemed pretty indifferent to what I am doing since her text messages on Friday.

My goal about telling W of OW was simply to be completely honest with her. I have asked her to be honest with me, so I felt that she deserved no less than what I had asked for.

W's power over the situation has been eroded if not completely lost. IMO, she has overplayed and taken advantage of the leverage that she has had over me for the past 6 months. I will no longer let her treat me the way that she has because I feel guilty over how I treated her during our M. Enough is enough. She now needs to decide whether or not she can forgive me, and if so, if she wants to be with me. I am willing to live with either at this point.

I agree with everything that you said regarding OW.

Thanks 25. Was beginning to think that I had frustrated you so much that you abandoned my thread! LOL... guess I wouldn't blame you.

Denver

[25yearsmlc]

I still want you to check out that workshop Essential Experience.


You strike me as a cowboy macho type (but in a smart way) so maybe you think it's a touchy feely girly mushy thing.

it's not. It's amazing and at times, brilliant. Give it a look see.

More later

[Denver_2010]

I still want you to check out that workshop Essential Experience.


You strike me as a cowboy macho type (but in a smart way) so maybe you think it's a touchy feely girly mushy thing.

it's not. It's amazing and at times, brilliant. Give it a look see.

More later

Cowboy? BC I live in Denver... sh!t kicking city eh!? LOL

I'm not against anything if it helps me become a better person or if it would help save my M 25. I will check it out. I think that you said that it is mostly in Philly though. I'd think about doing it if there is one in Denver or close by.

I just googled it actually. I will check out the website later as I have to head out in a minute.

I don't know if you read my entire post replying to you and MHL above. Sorry if I come across angrily. I'm really not. I'd call it more "determined" to stop what has been happening over the past several months. There may be a wee bit element of reckless abandon though ... I admit.

I'm just tired 25. that's all.

Denver

[2stepboogie]

Philly? That's an hour from my house.

Go to that one!!

[25yearsmlc]

2 step

YOU GO!!!

Denver, you didn't sound angry to me. Tired? Yes...

But the way you talk about drinking (smoking?) and the bar scene and bands, and living where you live...idk

I just envision you as at least a boots wearin' guy, if not also a Stetson.

I lived in San Antonio for 7 years, so I have a pair of Justins...

[MHL]

MHL, thanks for your post, your thoughts and your advice. You will probably never know how much it means to me. I apologize if I am coming across as angry

Denver,
You are welcome, it is an attempt on my part to pay it forward.....this place and these people saved my life, so I think I know how much it means to you.

and........no you do not come across angry..........but if you are we know how to deal with that............"I'm sorry you feel that way"

I know that I am going to be slammed for my R with OW.

Not from me........however I am not advocating it either.....

I will also tell you that most people here will not bash you over it because I believe that a fair share of people here do have relationships with OP during a separation from their spouse, especially MEN.

No one here really wants to talk about it and it is certainly contrary to working on yourself and definitely contrary to working on your marriage.

Since that is "out there" lets talk about how it does affect a couple that is separated.......

I will share something with you, and now consequently with everyone else here, that I have not said publicly on these boards.

I had an 8 week relationship with a woman during the separation with my XW. My XW did not find out about it until 3 months after it ended but I can tell you it definitely affected me and my situation at the time I was in the R with the OW.

My OW was one of the other soccer mom's on my D14 team and was also recently separated and so keeping our R a secret was a common goal. She was a WAW. She was definitely not healed and neither was I. It was my Affair.

Of course I let the OW know up front and repeatedly that I still loved my W and that I was in limbo and that I was just living my life, if she wanted to be in it then it was understood that it was not serious and could end at any time.

Well, I ended it and she got hurt.

I will tell you in that time when I was with the OW......I started to find "some" of my mojo......and it showed when I interacted with my W. She started showing interest, was pleasant and friendly, and she started acting like herself again.

Why did she start to do this??

Because I really didn't want to waste time with my W when I was dropping my kids off with her.....I could not wait to leave to go be with the OW. To my W it appeared as though I had a life.....I was happy, I did not ask about her or what she was doing.......she "felt" the space.

Just as your W felt the space that night, yeah she knew that there were old flames there however she knew you were going to have a great time!!!!! Why???? Because this was something you were doing for you!!! Imagine if you were acting like that everyday in everything you do??? She would want a piece of that, especially if she did not know exactly what you are doing.

If you are happy now......she knows why........it is because of the other woman.

Take away the other woman........will Denver be as happy????

In your W's eyes the answer is no.

Why did it not work for me then???? (remember, my W did not know!!)

I had not gotten a life.........I had gotten another woman!!!

There is a difference.

Because I was not ready.........you see when I was with the OW I stopped doing the "work" on me. The OW filled the void that I needed to fill myself. When my W started coming around and then I started to take a step towards her.....she recoiled and I reacted poorly and pushed her further away.

It was not until I ended with the OW that I really started to make strides within ME.....and it was probably another 3 months before I found ME again.....for real.

Your situation is a little different but the affect on YOU is the same as it was with ME.......I am postulating here

When I was with the other woman it felt good, I can remember clearly sitting on the couch watching a movie with her and she just held my hand and gently rubbed my arm........it was like a drug!!! I had not had a woman's touch or attention for sooooo long............and it felt good.

How does your OW feel to you??? Oh yeah, you guys have a history together........that makes it even more intense, right??

however

after the initial affect of her affections subsided, all I could think about was my W. I wanted more of this drug.......but I wanted a different supplier........I wanted my W to give me those affections not the OW.

When you are with the OW, do you totally forget about your W? Do you do things with the OW, go places with the OW, say things to the OW that you did with your W??

Denver, until YOU resolve YOUR feelings about YOUR W, they will haunt you and any relationship that you start before you finish working on YOU.

You see what I found is that I could not come to a healthy decision about my M and my W before I got to a healthy place MYSELF.

It was only then that I could make that decision and live with it forever.

I want to make one other point and hopefully end this ridiculously long post.

I plan on being a complete mystery to W for the time being.

There is no mystery here for her......I hope you realize that.

If she does not hear from you she will assume that you are with the OW.

I am not suggesting that you keep up contact, just pointing something out.

Even if your W wakes up, realizes she wants to be with you the rest of her life, why would she reach out to you while you are with someone else that is currently making you happy........uh errrr........that you are happy to be with????

Remember, if the WAW ever changes her mind about us then that must mean that they think pretty highly of us.....right???

If they now have this renewed and heighten image of us then why would they think for a minute that we would leave someone that is good for us for a wife that cheated????

Remember they don't feel worthy of us........one of thier main fears in recommitting is that we will come to our senses one day and drop them like a hot potato, after all who would blame us???????

I will end with this..........

I would not change my journey one bit........every part of it shaped the person I am now........I do not regret it.

However, I can tell you that if I had a time machine and I could go back in time I would do things differently.......but then I would not be who I am today...........I had to fail to succeed.

I am not saying that you need to fail.........I am reaffirming some of what you said............LIVE YOUR LIFE, MAKE IT AS GOOD AS YOU CAN, LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES AND MOVE FORWARD.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[♪CS♪]

Denver, I know you are going to do what you are going to do.

But ^^^ this was a great post. Hope you read it closely.

I'm not coming from any moral side here. You know I did the same thing.

I came out of it the exact way I went in.

Found out. It was wasted time. Time I could have spent much more wisely.

Just from my own personal experience.

Be well.

[Truegritter]

Because I was not ready.........you see when I was with the OW I stopped doing the "work" on me. The OW filled the void that I needed to fill myself. When my W started coming around and then I started to take a step towards her.....she recoiled and I reacted poorly and pushed her further away.

F@cking pearls ^^^^^

I can tell you as a twice married gent.

You can run but you can't hide.

Deal with the loss (if it is truly). Deal with the pain now.

Rather than letting its rotting carcasss spoil the rest of your life.

[2stepboogie]

MHL:

GREAT POST