Right now she's in the entitlement phase. She feels entitled to what she did because of your past sins. Well I bet she wasn't exactly a saint either, but needs someone to blame for "forcing" her to have an A.
It's a fine line to dance right now. You have to somehow shift the dynamic where it's not you who has to prove to be trustworthy, but her. She has to see you as the person to be pursued. That's why when you confronted the OM and said you were done, she thought "whoah, I'm going to be left alone with no one." She has to want you. Don't make yourself too available. It's that pursuer/pursuee dynamic. She's starting to show some interest, now you have to slowly reel her in.
If you go after her wholeheartedly, then she knows that she's got you and not the other way around.
With all due respect to the very wise people who are advising you Denver, I do have some gentle concerns for you.
I don't think, based on what you've said about your wife, that she would deliberately manipulate you. I do also think you've both experienced some heavy shocks in the last couple of weeks and it wouldn't surprise me if she was a bit panicked at this point.
My concern is she may be drawing you closer to calm herself without really knowing what she wants beyond some short term soothing. That might be fine in the long run but it might also mean when she calms down she'll start another round of re-evaluation that might seem manipulative when you have the benefit of hind sight.
My more pressing concern is for you yourself. You have acknowledged a small doubt about your motives for wanting your wife back. I can relate to this.
I'm a 48 year old very sucessful criminal defence lawyer. My wife and I have been married for 23 years with three teenage daughters. My wife is a trained fine artist who spent much of her most productive years helping me build my law practice and raising our kids. I was the 'dominant' partner in our relationship and, like you, I abused that position at times. 16 months ago my wife told me she had enough and was 'done'. She started an 'exit' affair with a much younger singer who was in many ways my opposite and even according to her, an unsuitable partner.
My wife has since told me she was sure she was doing me a favor by leaving and that I would embrace my freedom because I didn't ever really want her. She was surprised by the efforts I went to save our marriage. Slowly, very slowly, we have been working our way back toward one another. During this process I've had to ask myself many times to be honest about my motivations. Getting honest answers has been an exercise in unravelling a lot of self deception and has been an extremely valuable process for me, no matter what happens with my marriage.
I would urge you to slow your process down. Take time for yourself to understand your motivations very clearly. I think it would be good for wife to do the same. I don't think you will regret the time you took. I think I understand the sense of urgency you may be feeling. That can be misleading in my opinion. If you and your wife reconcile you will have many years to work together growing your love, please don't let the opportunity to take six months to a year to build a solid foundation for that slip by because you acted from a sense of panicked urgency.
While I understand it, in my opinion, the coffees and meet ups everyday or every couple days is too much too soon. She asked for a month at one point. You thought three months. You both seem to be rushing past that. Like I said I think I understand the urge to 'strike while the iron is hot' and probably there's something too that but if you two have a basis for moving forward I don't think taking some time for yourselves right now will jeopardise it.
I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Great post Count. I think that it is very wise and you have some experience in this yourself.
ITs a tough act Denver. I want to believe that your wife is getting back to being the person that you knew all these years and would not manipulate, and MAYBE she is again.
Just dont be unaware that she is capbale of pulling the wool over your eyes as well.
ONLY time will tell what are her motives.
I like what Dantes said about YOU also having to earn her trust as well. ITs going to be a long slow ride, and I hope you can navigate it well.
9
BITS M-46 W-42 M-16y T-19 y s10 s15 BombDec.19/09 Sep-F16/10 Sep Papers signed by W- June 30/10 Recon July 5/10 PA foundOut- Oct 30/10 Mental HospNov/10 moved out Nov/10 Leg Sep Mar 15/11
With all due respect to the very wise people who are advising you Denver, I do have some gentle concerns for you.
I don't think, based on what you've said about your wife, that she would deliberately manipulate you. I do also think you've both experienced some heavy shocks in the last couple of weeks and it wouldn't surprise me if she was a bit panicked at this point.
My concern is she may be drawing you closer to calm herself without really knowing what she wants beyond some short term soothing. That might be fine in the long run but it might also mean when she calms down she'll start another round of re-evaluation that might seem manipulative when you have the benefit of hind sight.
My more pressing concern is for you yourself. You have acknowledged a small doubt about your motives for wanting your wife back. I can relate to this.
I'm a 48 year old very sucessful criminal defence lawyer. My wife and I have been married for 23 years with three teenage daughters. My wife is a trained fine artist who spent much of her most productive years helping me build my law practice and raising our kids. I was the 'dominant' partner in our relationship and, like you, I abused that position at times. 16 months ago my wife told me she had enough and was 'done'. She started an 'exit' affair with a much younger singer who was in many ways my opposite and even according to her, an unsuitable partner.
My wife has since told me she was sure she was doing me a favor by leaving and that I would embrace my freedom because I didn't ever really want her. She was surprised by the efforts I went to save our marriage. Slowly, very slowly, we have been working our way back toward one another. During this process I've had to ask myself many times to be honest about my motivations. Getting honest answers has been an exercise in unravelling a lot of self deception and has been an extremely valuable process for me, no matter what happens with my marriage.
I would urge you to slow your process down. Take time for yourself to understand your motivations very clearly. I think it would be good for wife to do the same. I don't think you will regret the time you took. I think I understand the sense of urgency you may be feeling. That can be misleading in my opinion. If you and your wife reconcile you will have many years to work together growing your love, please don't let the opportunity to take six months to a year to build a solid foundation for that slip by because you acted from a sense of panicked urgency.
While I understand it, in my opinion, the coffees and meet ups everyday or every couple days is too much too soon. She asked for a month at one point. You thought three months. You both seem to be rushing past that. Like I said I think I understand the urge to 'strike while the iron is hot' and probably there's something too that but if you two have a basis for moving forward I don't think taking some time for yourselves right now will jeopardise it.
I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Denver Been reading your thread. Don't have any advice to give as I'm very fresh in this process. I just want to say that you give me hope. Not hope that my m will survive.. but that I can forgive and love again. I constantly see you "looking through the eyes" of your w and I just find that awesome. The thought that both parties are "right" is hard to swallow sometimes.
I hope I can one day show the strength, courage, and love you are showing. I want to with my w but when the conversations get tough, I revert back to thinking about me.
Cheers to you man! Keep the love flowing!
Val
That was a very nice post Val. Thank you.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
You are worried that she is taking advantage of you.
IF I read that right, HOW can she be taking advantage of you if you let her. If you get something out of it and your eyes are wide?
You're a smart man, can you see advatnages of your own here?
It's like 'doormat'. Are YOU a doormat? I'm asking YOU; no one else, I don't care what anyone else tells you. Only you.
Now; ask me if I was. You can ask anyone else. But the 'meat' of the matter, the answer is in how I feel.
I just need reminding sometimes Jack. Sometimes, when you begin to hear over and over that you are being a doormat, you begin to wonder 'maybe I am'. I guess that is what has been happening the past couple of days.
My goal is to save my M... not punish my W for anything that she has done. While I am not doing anything that I don't want to do, I also don't want to NOT do something just bc I feel that she has disrespected me in some way.
Thanks again.
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I was going through some boxes full of old papers and stuff that I have kept, and I came across some emails that I had run across from my W to one of her friends and her sister. I found them bc W had left her email open... I hadn't been snooping.
Anyway, they are from the time when I first took her shopping for engagement rings. She was so excited. Reading the emails today made me very sad and choked me up.
I want to put them here bc they mean something to me now...
Nothing too exciting so only read if you are bored. LOL
W: "You'll never guess what we were looking at today!!"
W: "Trent just said... let's go in here... and we went into John Atencio... then Tiffany.. then Bailey... I was so freaked out and shocked... and excited of course!! He just wanted some ideas... he was really calm... funny how i was freaked out and he was calm. Anyway, he said it wouldn't be for Christmas... He wouldn't give me any idea of when or which on or how or anything! He still wants to do it on his own.. his way. So... I'll drop it from her on out and let him do what he wants. I'm just happy he looked!"
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W: "So yesterday when we were window shopping, Denver and I ended up looking at rings!!!!!!!! He said let go in here... JA, Tiffany and Bailey. I told mom and F, but please don't tell anyone else!!!!!!!!! Not even BIL. I don't want Denver to feel like everyone knows. Thanks!"
SIL: "WOW. I can't believe that. That is exciting. I hope that he follows through! soon. Hahah. My fingers are crossed for you."
W: "Please don't say anything to BIL. He might slip up. I just don't want Denver NOT to ask because he feels like everyone is watching and waiting now. I was afraid to say anything to anyone bc he could wait for another year and we'd all be waiting. I also think he wants to do this on his own and not to have everyone involved."
SIL: "I don't think that would be a reason for him not to ask. Whatevah. We have all been waiting for a while now anyhow (and I'm sure he knows it. haha)."
W: "The rings we saw were beautiful! I know nothing about any of it though. Denver asked me if quality is more important to me than size. What do you think?"
SIL: "I would pick quality before size. Maybe not the very top notch, completely clear and no inclusions though. I suspect Denver would get you a decent size ring anyhow. Whatever you get, it's a gift from the heart and you will love it."
W: "We both seem to like round cut and platinum. I'm not going to say anything further to him. I know that it'll be beautiful either wa. I'll send you a couple of pics."
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Sorry nothing too exciting. Just broke my heart to read these emails today.
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
When I find stuff like that it always gets to me. I have a box of cards I received from STBX and the kids. I looked at them a few weeks ago. I am never doing that again.
Probably best for you to throw those emails away or put them somewhere you have to make an effort to get to.
Thanks!"