W and I had tickets to see Peter Gabriel at Red Rocks last night. I let W be the one to ask if she was still going... I let her contact me to find out what the plans were ... I was prepared to go alone if she hadn't contacted me.
She brought it up on Sunday night. Acted like she just assumed that she was still going. I just went along with it.
Monday she called me in the afternoon to find out what time I was picking her up and if we were going to eat dinner first.
The concert was GREAT. See this show if you have the chance.
W and I had a really nice time.
On the way to the concert, which was about 45 minutes from our suburb, W began talking about the possibility of us taking SS and my D to Disney World in July. Some of you may recall that this was a trip that I had looked into and brought up to W back in March or April.
So W gets on her phone and starts looking into packages to Disney World. Rooms that had 3 beds... 1 for SS, 1 for D, and 1 presumably for me and W (unless W plans on me sleeping on the floor or with Goofy somewhere)...
I have to almost laugh out loud at this happening as it is just SO frustrating. I am happy in the sense that W seems to be leaning towards working on our M, but it also made me really sad. It made me sad in the sense that I was looking at this trip back in March and April... and since that time, she resumed her A with OM... and hurt me very deeply.
I know that she knows that we have some issues that will need to be addressed if we are to reconcile. But right now, she's acting like the things that have happened in the past few weeks happened in a different reality... or didn't happen at all.
I mean 2 1/2 weeks ago, I found OM taking a cr*p on her toilet... and somehow managed not to kill him... NOW... W is wanting to go to Disney World with me and the kids just like NOTHING happened!
Ugh... very frustrating. And difficult to know how to even process everything right now.
It stormed at the concert for about 20 minutes. W and got very close under her umbrella. That was nice.
On the way home, W began to talk to me about how I make her insecure with how I am with other women in my life.... all friends, co-workers, ex-girlfriends, etc.
She told me that it makes her feel that she isn't good enough for me.
She told me that 'when' she is in my life it can't be like that anymore.
I told her that I know that I had made her feel like this, and that I had created the problem. But at the same time, I didn't think that it would be right for her to be too controlling.
W said that her feeling on this subject might change in the future, "in 6 months, 5 years, or never." But that she can't feel like she did bc it made her extremely unhappy.
I dropped W off at her house. She told me that she had a really nice time. I said that I did as well. We hugged and said goodbye.
----
I am still proceeding with a lot of caution. As I said above, things have almost flipped too fast for me to feel comfortable.
I mean, what has changed in the past three weeks? I caught OM at her house, told her that I was done, that I wouldn't be in her life if any OM was, and went dark on her for 3 days...
Was that enough to really create this kind of change in her? Or was she really being honest with me when she told me that she had already made a decision about her life BEFORE all of the above happened?
Rhetorical questions... just thinking out loud.
BITS Denver
My Sister-in-law went to that show too. I also had my high school graduation there.
No real advice other than take it slow. But the question is what does that really mean. how slow is slow enough. You won't know this answer until you go to fast.
I think her looking up trips is somewhat of an anomaly. Just like what she looks to you for, you have every right to expect the same from here - consistency. If only you are being consistency then you are just dbing and not working on the M.
But stop and try to enjoy some moments, H3ll, you were on you way to a great concert (at the greatest venue IMO) with your W and she exploring taking a trip. Be happy for the sadness aside for a few hours.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Denver Been reading your thread. Don't have any advice to give as I'm very fresh in this process. I just want to say that you give me hope. Not hope that my m will survive.. but that I can forgive and love again. I constantly see you "looking through the eyes" of your w and I just find that awesome. The thought that both parties are "right" is hard to swallow sometimes.
I hope I can one day show the strength, courage, and love you are showing. I want to with my w but when the conversations get tough, I revert back to thinking about me.
Cheers to you man! Keep the love flowing!
Val
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
Hi Denver, I'm so new, I almost don't feel comfortable giving anyone advice.
After reading your latest update, the first thing that I thought was that even though, it might be uncomfortable for you, you must assuage your w's concerns of insecurity in the m before you can voice your own recent om-related concerns.
I can relate to your w in so many ways (other than the A). As irrational is it might sound, her main focus is still on the hurt she felt in the M, and I think she feels/felt justified wrt the A for a time. However, she did make an attempt to convice you that she was no longer seeing anyone, so she may have realized that she hurt you too, might have gone too far, and doesn't want to lose you.
When she feels heard, she might be able to listen to your hurt, but not before. Fair? Maybe not. But that's my 2 cents.
I think that she is going about planning things as if nothing happened because she is hoping you are going to reassure her. She is giving you an opportunity.
Go on the trip, have a good time, and listen to her.
I hope I didn't repeat what someone else has already said!
Hi Denver, I'm so new, I almost don't feel comfortable giving anyone advice.
After reading your latest update, the first thing that I thought was that even though, it might be uncomfortable for you, you must assuage your w's concerns of insecurity in the m before you can voice your own recent om-related concerns.
I can relate to your w in so many ways (other than the A). As irrational is it might sound, her main focus is still on the hurt she felt in the M, and I think she feels/felt justified wrt the A for a time. However, she did make an attempt to convice you that she was no longer seeing anyone, so she may have realized that she hurt you too, might have gone too far, and doesn't want to lose you.
When she feels heard, she might be able to listen to your hurt, but not before. Fair? Maybe not. But that's my 2 cents.
I think that she is going about planning things as if nothing happened because she is hoping you are going to reassure her. She is giving you an opportunity.
Go on the trip, have a good time, and listen to her.
I hope I didn't repeat what someone else has already said!
I think that you are correct about how my W feels right now.
I am getting A LOT of advice from others who are VERY familiar with my sitch, other bits, that my W is taking advantage of me right now. These people are saying that my W feels that she can get anything she wants from me and is taking advantage of it.
I've posted the EXACT same updates with the people telling me this that I have here. I'm curious if anyone thinks the same thing here?
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Right now she's in the entitlement phase. She feels entitled to what she did because of your past sins. Well I bet she wasn't exactly a saint either, but needs someone to blame for "forcing" her to have an A.
It's a fine line to dance right now. You have to somehow shift the dynamic where it's not you who has to prove to be trustworthy, but her. She has to see you as the person to be pursued. That's why when you confronted the OM and said you were done, she thought "whoah, I'm going to be left alone with no one." She has to want you. Don't make yourself too available. It's that pursuer/pursuee dynamic. She's starting to show some interest, now you have to slowly reel her in.
If you go after her wholeheartedly, then she knows that she's got you and not the other way around.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
She has to see you as the person to be pursued. That's why when you confronted the OM and said you were done, she thought "whoah, I'm going to be left alone with no one." She has to want you. Don't make yourself too available. It's that pursuer/pursuee dynamic. She's starting to show some interest, now you have to slowly reel her in.
If you go after her wholeheartedly, then she knows that she's got you and not the other way around.
I agree 100%. Well put Mr. Bond. Well put.
Denver, don't put yourself on a pedestal that YOU are the man. You have a lot to prove too. It still rides on you and all your changes. You HAVE to be the man in the relationship. If you do this right she will pursue you. There will be no question when she wants to "Be with you, 100%".
Im relatively new here - and been posting mostly to joural...see my posts on the newcomers board if you want background.....
so I'm definately NOT qualified in anyway to help - but thought I'd share my thoughts with you ... they might help...
I can relate to your sit. SO well - as I am going through almost exactly the same thing right now ..
I've realised through counselling and self help that I had very low self esteem ( deep rooted - always is!) insecurity, abandonment issues, anger issues ( but not physical in any way!!) and I was co-dependant.
So I have lots of issues I have to resolve as well as our marriage problems.
I decided 2 weeks ago to "put my marriage in a box on the shelf" for a little while whilst i continue the work I have to do on myself - and my husband agreed....we are continuing contact and seeing each other - but not "rebuilding" anything at this stage.
All this and my behaviours resulted in my husband having 2 EA's in 7 years - I didn't know about the first one until 12 weeks ago - and the 2nd one got physical with kissing ... I discovered all this at the end of february this year.
Both EA's lasted a few months, and there is definately no third party involved now.
he does everything he can to prove this to me - I have a set of keys for his accomodation, he leaves his phone lying around, I can use his laptop if i wanted to.
But because he is making me feel secure with these things - I'm finding that I dont have the urge to check on him.
His problem is that he knows he loves me - but because of what he has done - thinks he cant possibly love me the way he should.... he suffers untreated depression and has huge guilt and remorse for what he has done..
Anwyay - we entered couple counselling which helped us see WHY they happened - and I DONT blame myself - not at all - he CHOSE to be unfaithful.. and he CHOSE not to tell me we had problems.....
but I DO have to accept a huge amount of responsibility for why they happened...
So anyway - we are at the moment undergoing a 6 month "controlled separation" - and he doesn't trust me at the moment to change my behaviours....
JUST LIKE YOUR WIFE SEEMS TO - he wants me to PROVE to him how much I have changed - he almost feels justified for having the EA's.....
they were a FORM OF REVENGE FOR THE WAY I BEHAVED TOWARDS HIM
We are being affectionate with each other, occasionally making love ( because our goal IS to end up together again - otherwise this would be a huge NO-NO) and having a family meal together once a week.....
BUT I've realised lots of things over these 12 weeks - and now I am NOT so available to him - Ive thrown myself into GAL - but for ME this time !!!
this is great advice all over the forum - and its true...
I STOPPED initiating every call, text, meeting, and its making a difference.
He wants ME to prove to him I'VE changed - HE is still hurt, and frustrated at the way i behaved in our marriage and is not ready to just forgive me just because I understand what i did..
I know i have changed - so like you - I am starting to feel now that I need HIM to WANT to pursue me.... BUT I KNOW I MIGHT HAVE TO WAIT QUITE A WHILE YET FOR THIS TO HAPPEN....
I know that the best advice I have been given is to BE PATIENT BE PATIENT and BE MORE PATIENT - AND MAKE THE CHANGES FOR YOURSELF!!!
I have 2 sayings i find inspiring right now -
He was a wise man to leave the woman I was But he would be a fool to leave the woman i am becoming
and
I have not shut the door - I am just now standing here holding it open at the moment.
