OK... 81 Days

[Sad_but_happy]

"We all make mistakes, there are no degrees of mistake or bad choices really, just mistakes and bad choices"


Really Cat?

So intercourse with another person is the same as say, telling a little lie to your spouse?

We most certainly disagree there...

[Sad_but_happy]

Yes Harrier, my W had an EA and I believe she kissed the person...

And she has not communicated with him in 7 months. And the actually EA lasted 45 days. And she is 100% committed to our M...

She told me just last night before we ML, "you are such a great guy. And a much better partner than me."

And even with all that...

You are all correct, I have not forgiven her...

Not sure if I can...

Which is why I envy and respect all of you...

[Sad_but_happy]

BTW Denver, sorry I hi-jacked your thread...

Lots to learn for me in your sitch...

I think the thread needs to be refocused 100% on you...

[Danl]

Hello Denver, you don't know me from these boards. I'm like a lot of newcomers, in that, I've been reading here (early on a month ago, sometimes reading all night)..

haven't posted about my own deal yet; so I don't know that this will even post before this thread locks. Anyhow, I feel compelled to offer my own two cents worth if you don't mind.

I needed to forgive someone once that I found the desire to, and even inwardly proclaimed my forgiveness for her (and him).. but wherever the rubber hit the road, I found myself wholly without the ability to forgive..

Someone said something to the effect, that a powerful dynamic re: forgiveness is simply the willingness to allow that forgiveness to come to her, for her, from the same higher source from which I seek forgiveness for myself.

I also had to assimilate the fact, that, I did not have clean hands in the whole affair, (affair).. see what I did there ;- )

Anyhow, the decompression was powerful. Free unmerited favor,
(sometimes unmerited in an abject, almost paradoxical sense)..

Forgiveness isn't something 'earned'. It's like real love; comes free of charge, dismisses any past indictments. Unless forgiveness (more apt, the willingness to forgive) is offered by the better loving man, on an unmerited basis; it's nothing much more than immature equivocating..

And again, this kind of forgiveness (the real deal, so to speak,)
isn't a built in ability to our human condition. It comes from higher up.

But, it is available to whosoever is willing to receive
it..

Peace
I wish you the peace that transcends all understanding..(even that of our own situations)


I'm 57, she's 56. I run her off with my own inimitable
drunken nonsense.. 22yr M (T 27 yrs.) 4 grown sons, lots of
fine grandkids.. I'm in Colorado, she's at the youngest sons
in N Carolina, ~ a month now. But I'm good, (better than I have any right to be,)

[ninelives]

I dont think SBH is trying to be , for lack of a better term, a jerk here. I think that he is struggling with the concept of foregiveness in an affair, period. My W used to accuse me of being black or white with no shades of gray, and in some topics, I was like that.

I would have sided with SBH 100% a few short months ago, but then you start to see the role that you played, are aware that people are human and sometimes very weak and then another perspective starts to slowly creep up.

All IM saying SBH is that , YES , Affairs are not the right answer and should never have happened but when they do, you have to see the WHOLE picture when you look at it and how you want to proceed. To stand on the self rightoeous soap box is one approach , but where does that get you . I am right and you are wrong , rinse and repeat. STUCK. There are many ways to perceive this issue but do it with an OPEN mind.

I will never agree with what my W did and will always see it for an act of weakness on her part. But then I must admit, my wife is a weak perosn at times and suffers from poor choices. I MUST forgive this for the following reasons

1) I need to heal and not be stuck in bittersville Ont
2) My kids need to see a strong perons that can be happy
3) IF , Recon is ever a possibility, then I need to forgive

ITs up to you SBH how you perceive your sitch down the road.
Denver has his agenda and knows what he wants. Do you?

9

[cat04]

"We all make mistakes, there are no degrees of mistake or bad choices really, just mistakes and bad choices"


Really Cat?

So intercourse with another person is the same as say, telling a little lie to your spouse?

We most certainly disagree there...

Yes we definately disagree...

Intercourse with another person is a LIE to you spouse, so yes it is most definately exactly the same...

Being completly honest, it wasn't my STBX's OWomen that hurt. It was the LIES that accompianed them that hurt.

It was the breaking of the most fundamental thing, his word, that is what did the damage...

I am not saying if he had TOLD me first that I would have been happy or accepting, but the ACTIONS showed the deceptions...

If they hadn't happened, I wouldn't have ever known he was LYING and THAT is what did the damage...

I spent years, being punished by him, for a mistake early on in our R. While we were dating, before we even thought about being married, I had a brief affair. I had my own crisis period. And then it wasn't just that I had done that, it was also that I had dated before I even met him that made me the worst person walking the face of the earth...

Because he couldn't forgive, because he felt SUPERIOR because he hadn't done what I did...until he did...and even then, he couldn't admit it, which just made the lies even worse...

That punishment, led to me having resentments of him. Led to me having fear that if I did ANYTHING he didn't like, that I would never live it down. Led to me trying to be a freakin' Stepford Wife, and even that wasn't good enough...

Hoops that I will never jump through again...

Wasn't fair to either of us...and things could really have been different if he had been able to be forgiving...

My STBX lives in Bittersville. He is in a sad state. He thought he found happiness with someone, however, something happened there and that has fallen apart as well, because there is no forgivness...

I feel for him...I really do...

Because he is going to be forever searching, forever feeling superior to people because he can't look at his own faults, his own stuff, because he can't be accepting of people.

Because he has a scale of perfection that NO ONE is ever going to be able to live up to.

Even if they jump through hoops trying.

SBH, I hope you find the person who is perfect. The person who will never in life, let you down. In any way, shape, or form, since you are such a wonderful man. Someone who will wear the rose colored glasses to look at you, that you seem to wear to look at yourself....

I hope you never need to be forgiven by someone and if you do, I hope that that person gives you the chance that you seem to be unwilling to give to them...

It isn't up to me to judge anyone...I choose to leave that to the man at the Pearly Gates...

If this is how you choose to live and what you choose to believe, I hope that you find what you need...

Good luck.

[Sad_but_happy]

I hate to respond to you Cat but I must..

You never lied or was dishonest to H about anything EVER?

I don't buy it...

And by your logic murder is the same as stealing a KitKat, child molestation the same as lying, rape the same as telling your children there is a Santa Clause.

There are absolute degrees of right and wrong... Lest there be chaos...

I would love to hear from the lawyers... Denver, 25, Harrier???

[Sad_but_happy]

Its time to start a new thread and take this off line...

This is not fair to Denver... Really sorry dude...

[notsosunny]

I agree..............its BS

Sunny

[Mach1]

Its time to start a new thread and take this off line...

This is not fair to Denver... Really sorry dude...

I disagree....

I think this is the perfect place to have a debate about forgiveness...

And the pitfalls of not being able to.

Exactly where Denver is.

The "superiority" complex displayed is exactly what Denver should take a glance at in his own situation.

And if is stings a bit ?

Then maybe it should be looked at more closely....